Member
Posts: 64 
October 12th, 2007, 06:34 AM
Yes, you are right. If any one not willing to accept the truth that comes in his/her way open heartedly may be religious but do not have faith.
Quoting Liberalman
God made us in his own image to think for ourselves and not become sheep in any organized religion where all they want is your money as payment for your entrance into heaven.
God made us in his own image to think for ourselves and not become sheep in any organized religion where all they want is your money as payment for your entrance into heaven.
Yes, you are right. If any one not willing to accept the truth that comes in his/her way open heartedly may be religious but do not have faith.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041 
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 12th, 2007, 06:16 PM
I agree that learning is the most important part of our journey. So we only get one journey?
Quoting Curiosity
Wow, I will really have to think about this for a bit okay. Do you then view the soul as having a separate awareness? Sal
I have learned the teachings of many faiths, applied the best of myself to my life as I have been able, but there is much more for me to understand.
My soul probably has the answers, my conscious mind and body struggle.
The learning is the most important journey - because if we find our destination - will we stop learning?
I have learned the teachings of many faiths, applied the best of myself to my life as I have been able, but there is much more for me to understand.
My soul probably has the answers, my conscious mind and body struggle.
The learning is the most important journey - because if we find our destination - will we stop learning?
I agree that learning is the most important part of our journey. So we only get one journey?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 12th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Quoting Liberalman
God made us in his own image to think for ourselves and not become sheep in any organized religion where all they want is your money as payment for your entrance into heaven.
Question here for you Liberalman. Do you think that the average person needs rules and guidance?
God made us in his own image to think for ourselves and not become sheep in any organized religion where all they want is your money as payment for your entrance into heaven.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
October 12th, 2007, 06:46 PM
Yes I think all humans of have a distinct soul - whether they know it or are aware of it - or even care if it exists - we are the instrument of its wishes or hopes or desires.
The journey I am not certain ... if there is only one, then a child dying before it is born seems to be a slovely planner at work... I would hope there are more journeys than just one. At least I would hope the soul continues.
Other than what I have written I have absolutely no idea but I wrote what I feel comfortable with.
I dislike thinking we are flotsam and jetsam living and dying without cause or reason. Again that would be slovenly planning. I believe we are more important than that.
Quoting Sal
Sal
Wow, I will really have to think about this for a bit okay. Do you then view the soul as having a separate awareness?
I agree that learning is the most important part of our journey. So we only get one journey?
I agree that learning is the most important part of our journey. So we only get one journey?
Yes I think all humans of have a distinct soul - whether they know it or are aware of it - or even care if it exists - we are the instrument of its wishes or hopes or desires.
The journey I am not certain ... if there is only one, then a child dying before it is born seems to be a slovely planner at work... I would hope there are more journeys than just one. At least I would hope the soul continues.
Other than what I have written I have absolutely no idea but I wrote what I feel comfortable with.
I dislike thinking we are flotsam and jetsam living and dying without cause or reason. Again that would be slovenly planning. I believe we are more important than that.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,678
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
October 12th, 2007, 07:00 PM
VERY well put........and I see the silence is deafening.
Quoting akbar
Once upon a time a farmer was praising the God for his good harvest. A learned philosopher was passing by him. He said to the farmer, "Oh, you simple man. There isn't any god. You worked hard and so your harvest is good." The farmer tried hard with his simplicity to make him believe that there is a God but the learned philosopher all the time said that he would not believe. He every time demanded a proof from the farmer and continued asking him, "Had he seen the God?"
The farmer get tired of his, "no, no." He hit the philosopher with a solid piece of mud on the back. Philosopher was much annoyed at his mishavor and rebucked him a lot. The farmer denied the action and asked him, "Had he seen him? Have you any proof of it? Can I see to believe that you were really hit?"
The philosopher replied as there was none except him so it was he and that he was feeling pain though there isn't any bruise or mark of it to be seen. Philosopher said that he was more then confident that he was hit by the farmer. The farmer acknowledge his action and also appologized. Then he said to the philosopher, "Just like you are sure that there is none except me to hit you so I am about the God. That there is none but the God to be praised, to ask from and to be thankful for his benovelance. That just like he was feeling pain though not to be seen I feel the presence of the God. If your pain is a reality for me the presence of the God is also."
The philosopher fully understood that simple logic of the farmer and was convinced.
The farmer get tired of his, "no, no." He hit the philosopher with a solid piece of mud on the back. Philosopher was much annoyed at his mishavor and rebucked him a lot. The farmer denied the action and asked him, "Had he seen him? Have you any proof of it? Can I see to believe that you were really hit?"
The philosopher replied as there was none except him so it was he and that he was feeling pain though there isn't any bruise or mark of it to be seen. Philosopher said that he was more then confident that he was hit by the farmer. The farmer acknowledge his action and also appologized. Then he said to the philosopher, "Just like you are sure that there is none except me to hit you so I am about the God. That there is none but the God to be praised, to ask from and to be thankful for his benovelance. That just like he was feeling pain though not to be seen I feel the presence of the God. If your pain is a reality for me the presence of the God is also."
The philosopher fully understood that simple logic of the farmer and was convinced.
VERY well put........and I see the silence is deafening.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 12th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Quoting Curiosity
If we are the instrument of the soul's wishes or hopes or desires is the soul separate from us or just another part of us with a different kind of consciousness?
Sal
Yes I think all humans of have a distinct soul - whether they know it or are aware of it - or even care if it exists - we are the instrument of its wishes or hopes or desires.
Yes I think all humans of have a distinct soul - whether they know it or are aware of it - or even care if it exists - we are the instrument of its wishes or hopes or desires.
Member
Posts: 64
October 13th, 2007, 01:29 AM
Quoting Sal
Being a farmer I am interfering in your scholary discussions but I have to say that the soul is always good. We ignore or do not heed to it's demands which are always of a lasting nature and give pure happiness, and are are indulged in needs of flesh which are temporarily so inspite of having all material requirements which may satisfy flesh plung into despair and depression.
If we are the instrument of the soul's wishes or hopes or desires is the soul separate from us or just another part of us with a different kind of consciousness?
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
October 13th, 2007, 10:06 AM
Morning Sal
Akbar said it extremely well - we are children of flesh and its demands, the soul remains apart for our guidance. But that is my own personal interpretation. I think the beauty and freedom of this is we can make our own interpretation of what our guiding force is - or ignore it - or let other humans create it for us - or hear it for our ears alone.
Morning Sal
Akbar said it extremely well - we are children of flesh and its demands, the soul remains apart for our guidance. But that is my own personal interpretation. I think the beauty and freedom of this is we can make our own interpretation of what our guiding force is - or ignore it - or let other humans create it for us - or hear it for our ears alone.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 13th, 2007, 05:11 PM
Unlike you and curiosity I do not believe that the soul is always good. I believe some people are very undeveloped and as such may hurt others in order to pursue their own desires.
Quoting akbar
akbar you are not interfering in any scholarly discussion. We are just kicking ideas around just like you and your input is always welcome as is anyone else who would like to join in and offer their views.
Being a farmer I am interfering in your scholary discussions but I have to say that the soul is always good. We ignore or do not heed to it's demands which are always of a lasting nature and give pure happiness, and are are indulged in needs of flesh which are temporarily so inspite of having all material requirements which may satisfy flesh plung into despair and depression.
Unlike you and curiosity I do not believe that the soul is always good. I believe some people are very undeveloped and as such may hurt others in order to pursue their own desires.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 13th, 2007, 05:14 PM
Quoting Curiosity
Evening Curiosity. So you then believe, as it would appear akbar does, that your soul is on a higher level or plain. If I understand correctly. Thanks for your thought on this. I had never looked at it like that before and will certainly think about it.
Morning Sal
Akbar said it extremely well - we are children of flesh and its demands, the soul remains apart for our guidance. But that is my own personal interpretation. I think the beauty and freedom of this is we can make our own interpretation of what our guiding force is - or ignore it - or let other humans create it for us - or hear it for our ears alone.
Akbar said it extremely well - we are children of flesh and its demands, the soul remains apart for our guidance. But that is my own personal interpretation. I think the beauty and freedom of this is we can make our own interpretation of what our guiding force is - or ignore it - or let other humans create it for us - or hear it for our ears alone.
Member
Posts: 64
October 14th, 2007, 05:59 AM
To know self completely is to know whole of universe. I do not claim that I have one but a pure huamn heart is the God's abode so what may not be included in it?
Once in my childhood I was listening a debate (though not a serious one) in my village (Punjab, Pakistan), regarding superiority of castes. One of my uncles said, {the God made two castes (including ours). Then the people said to the God, “where we stand?” “Shall we have no caste?” the God ordered to the angels, “go and give them also some names”. [Our caste is made by the God and yours by the angels, so we stand superior].
The men and the children including myself having this superior caste were very pleased on these remarks. There was clapping and laughing, having won the debate.
The story pleased me and I wished it was true. Now I am ashamed in myself for having developed that wish. Mankind goes on with such wishes. With the passage of time these wishes were/are intermixed with beliefs and gain much solid grounds. When we say, “In those golden times”. It takes us into an imaginary world. In fact there weren’t any golden times and no bad times. There were good and evil in all the times and are in times going on. Excluding such like wishes all traditions and customs are good. All nations, all languages, all castes, and all races are good and there isn’t any harm in maintaining their own identities in the God’s universe.
Quoting Sal
I believe that to discover self is to discover humanity. I believe that human souls are let me say human hearts are alike the world over if not polluted selfish ujustified desires of flesh.
akbar you are not interfering in any scholarly discussion. We are just kicking ideas around just like you and your input is always welcome as is anyone else who would like to join in and offer their views.
Unlike you and curiosity I do not believe that the soul is always good. I believe some people are very undeveloped and as such may hurt others in order to pursue their own desires.
Unlike you and curiosity I do not believe that the soul is always good. I believe some people are very undeveloped and as such may hurt others in order to pursue their own desires.
To know self completely is to know whole of universe. I do not claim that I have one but a pure huamn heart is the God's abode so what may not be included in it?
Once in my childhood I was listening a debate (though not a serious one) in my village (Punjab, Pakistan), regarding superiority of castes. One of my uncles said, {the God made two castes (including ours). Then the people said to the God, “where we stand?” “Shall we have no caste?” the God ordered to the angels, “go and give them also some names”. [Our caste is made by the God and yours by the angels, so we stand superior].
The men and the children including myself having this superior caste were very pleased on these remarks. There was clapping and laughing, having won the debate.
The story pleased me and I wished it was true. Now I am ashamed in myself for having developed that wish. Mankind goes on with such wishes. With the passage of time these wishes were/are intermixed with beliefs and gain much solid grounds. When we say, “In those golden times”. It takes us into an imaginary world. In fact there weren’t any golden times and no bad times. There were good and evil in all the times and are in times going on. Excluding such like wishes all traditions and customs are good. All nations, all languages, all castes, and all races are good and there isn’t any harm in maintaining their own identities in the God’s universe.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
October 14th, 2007, 07:53 AM
To all the writers here....I enjoyed reading this again.... sometimes I find things I miss or misinterpret when I read them the first time - and unfortunately respond immediately rather than being patient and answering after a second or third reading.
Regarding self and discovery of self. I believe we are in constant change unless we refuse to learn any more for various reasons: health issues, mind issues, extreme poverty necessitating staying alive, trauma or imprisonment by some external force - that kind of life event.
What I can say honestly is that I hope self discovery continues until death. If we stop because we feel we arrived at our destination, I wonder if we have done a disservice to ourselves.
The journey is our life - it has the key to being alive. My greatest fear is one day I will be unable to learn any more. My only consolation is in memory of having passed along the learning to others.
To all the writers here....I enjoyed reading this again.... sometimes I find things I miss or misinterpret when I read them the first time - and unfortunately respond immediately rather than being patient and answering after a second or third reading.
Regarding self and discovery of self. I believe we are in constant change unless we refuse to learn any more for various reasons: health issues, mind issues, extreme poverty necessitating staying alive, trauma or imprisonment by some external force - that kind of life event.
What I can say honestly is that I hope self discovery continues until death. If we stop because we feel we arrived at our destination, I wonder if we have done a disservice to ourselves.
The journey is our life - it has the key to being alive. My greatest fear is one day I will be unable to learn any more. My only consolation is in memory of having passed along the learning to others.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 14th, 2007, 10:23 AM
Quoting akbar
Agreed.
I believe that to discover self is to discover humanity. I believe that human souls are let me say human hearts are alike the world over if not polluted selfish ujustified desires of flesh.
Quote:
And that is the challenge. To know ourselves completely and purely.
To know self completely is to know whole of universe. I do not claim that I have one but a pure huamn heart is the God's abode so what may not be included in it?
Quote:
I think it is the rare person who can actually understand that to think of onesself as better than another in anyway is a waste of time and hurtful to our soul and also to others. Everything is energy...it goes out as positive or negative. We decide what we send out. As a child you could not have been expected to understand that. As an adult you are fortunate that you do.
Once in my childhood I was listening a debate (though not a serious one) in my village (Punjab, Pakistan), regarding superiority of castes. One of my uncles said, {the God made two castes (including ours). Then the people said to the God, “where we stand?” “Shall we have no caste?” the God ordered to the angels, “go and give them also some names”. [Our caste is made by the God and yours by the angels, so we stand superior].
The men and the children including myself having this superior caste were very pleased on these remarks. There was clapping and laughing, having won the debate.
The story pleased me and I wished it was true. Now I am ashamed in myself for having developed that wish.
The men and the children including myself having this superior caste were very pleased on these remarks. There was clapping and laughing, having won the debate.
The story pleased me and I wished it was true. Now I am ashamed in myself for having developed that wish.
Quote:
Now if you can just get the rest of the universe to understand this truth, things would vastly improve.
Mankind goes on with such wishes. With the passage of time these wishes were/are intermixed with beliefs and gain much solid grounds. When we say, “In those golden times”. It takes us into an imaginary world. In fact there weren’t any golden times and no bad times. There were good and evil in all the times and are in times going on. Excluding such like wishes all traditions and customs are good. All nations, all languages, all castes, and all races are good and there isn’t any harm in maintaining their own identities in the God’s universe
Bright Spark
Posts: 258
October 14th, 2007, 11:17 AM
Sal said
That is interesting when you say rules and regulation.
In the bible it says somewhere that you must follow God’s law not man’s law.
Would you say this is conflicting in having a peaceful society?
All throughout history, organized religion have been the cause of war and this is because the leaders of the different faiths have interpreted God’s message to suite their own agendas.
Just look at the present war in Afghanistan America invaded that country looking for Bin Laden, the Taleban the ruling religious government there said he was not there and America decided to invade that country and put in their Christian based government and proudly boasted that they have given women more rights.
There are all kinds of examples in history like the Spanish inquisition where soldiers of God were on a mission to forcefully convert the masses even if it meant killing them.
Organized religion motto is “If you are not with us, you are against us”
As long as you have organized religion there will never be peace as God intended.
Sal said
HTML Code:
Question here for you Liberalman. Do you think that the average person needs rules and guidance?
In the bible it says somewhere that you must follow God’s law not man’s law.
Would you say this is conflicting in having a peaceful society?
All throughout history, organized religion have been the cause of war and this is because the leaders of the different faiths have interpreted God’s message to suite their own agendas.
Just look at the present war in Afghanistan America invaded that country looking for Bin Laden, the Taleban the ruling religious government there said he was not there and America decided to invade that country and put in their Christian based government and proudly boasted that they have given women more rights.
There are all kinds of examples in history like the Spanish inquisition where soldiers of God were on a mission to forcefully convert the masses even if it meant killing them.
Organized religion motto is “If you are not with us, you are against us”
As long as you have organized religion there will never be peace as God intended.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 4,820
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
October 14th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Wolf
Quoting akbar
By Church, I mean any organization who tells me the thoughts I should have to be a part of their flock. God granted me this ability to think my own thoughts, to have my own mind, to feel my own pain, and to live my own life. Do I honour my God in giving those gifts away so I can suffer shame and guilt not meant to be my own?
Yes, you are perfectly right and I am sure that by church you mean any religious place.
Wolf
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 14th, 2007, 12:26 PM
Also they are not fighting in Afghanistan to place a democracy there. That would be Iraq. And due to the waning power of the Taleban in Afghanistan women do have more rights. Female children now have to right to go to school. They have rewritten their constitution. Women are not even close to equal yet but they have moved a tiny bit closer toward it. The Taleban would have a return to the stone age.
A matter of opinion based on faulty reasoning.
Quoting
Sal said God made us in his own image to think for ourselves and not become sheep in any organized religion where all they want is your money as payment for your entrance into heaven.
HTML Code:
Question here for you Liberalman. Do you think that the average person needs rules and guidance?
Quote:
What’s interesting is that I did not say rules and regulations. I said rules and guidance. That is interesting when you say rules and regulation.
Quote:
I can find no specific quote where it says we must follow God’s law and not man’s law. So no, I would not say the bible specifically conflicts with having a peaceful society due to one faulty quote. In the bible it says somewhere that you must follow God’s law not man’s law.
Would you say this is conflicting in having a peaceful society?
Would you say this is conflicting in having a peaceful society?
Quote:
Which wars are you referring to? All throughout history, organized religion have been the cause of war and this is because the leaders of the different faiths have interpreted God’s message to suite their own agendas.
Quote:
To begin with, Democracy is not a Christian based government especially if you are referring directly to the government of the United States. Their founding fathers were not for the most part Christian. Check the belief systems that many of their first presidents held. Just look at the present war in Afghanistan America invaded that country looking for Bin Laden, the Taleban the ruling religious government there said he was not there and America decided to invade that country and put in their Christian based government and proudly boasted that they have given women more rights.
Also they are not fighting in Afghanistan to place a democracy there. That would be Iraq. And due to the waning power of the Taleban in Afghanistan women do have more rights. Female children now have to right to go to school. They have rewritten their constitution. Women are not even close to equal yet but they have moved a tiny bit closer toward it. The Taleban would have a return to the stone age.
Quote:
The Spanish Inquisition was in the 1400’s. The 18th Century wars, Britain/France American Revolution, were not religious. World Wars I and II were not religious, the Cold War wasn't, the Korean War, neither was Vietnam. There are all kinds of examples in history like the Spanish inquisition where soldiers of God were on a mission to forcefully convert the masses even if it meant killing them.
Quote:
That is NOT a religious motto. It is the motto of those who lust for power and wealth. Organized religion motto is “If you are not with us, you are against us”
Quote:
As long as you have organized religion there will never be peace as God intended
A matter of opinion based on faulty reasoning.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,905
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 14th, 2007, 02:03 PM
Nakedness!
Discovering ones nakedness is discovering who we are compared to God.
Otherwise who would we compare ourselves to, and why would we want to discover ourselves if it were not for God.
One would think that by the many thousands of years of discovery we would have arrived at the Utopian existence of humanity.
But as it is, we are just as naked as Adam.
What then is the difference in this whole scenario of human existence?
I believe it is discovering our nakedness and then allowing to be clothed with the dressings of God Himself.
Our nakedness is then hid in Him.
Whatever this God is to you, by whatever name you call Him, He is God and lover of all of us.
Peace>>>AJ
Nakedness!
Discovering ones nakedness is discovering who we are compared to God.
Otherwise who would we compare ourselves to, and why would we want to discover ourselves if it were not for God.
One would think that by the many thousands of years of discovery we would have arrived at the Utopian existence of humanity.
But as it is, we are just as naked as Adam.
What then is the difference in this whole scenario of human existence?
I believe it is discovering our nakedness and then allowing to be clothed with the dressings of God Himself.
Our nakedness is then hid in Him.
Whatever this God is to you, by whatever name you call Him, He is God and lover of all of us.
Peace>>>AJ
Wolf
