The God is just

akbar

Nominee Member
Mar 31, 2007
64
1
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If the God is unjust there can not be justifications of any sort. If the God is unjust let there be no values, no mercy, no kindness, no charities and no ethics of any sort. If the God is unjust why humans do not avail every opportunity for their personal pleasures and progress, it may be at the cost of others blood and sufferings? The God is absolutely just and all other justifications are because of him. The God created us humans so there were/are and will be human values not necessarily to be interpreted by religious clergies. Believers of the God had/have sublime human values because they had/have faith in the God and therefore in values also; so they keep values what ever conditions or circumstances may be.

Selfish religious leaders teach their followers that their God wants them to establish supremacy of their religion and in doing so they may suppress, plunder and kill others. They also preach that their God will highly reward them for this and if any of them loses his/her life, he/she will be instantly received in heaven by their concerned holy personalities. There is no such unjust God, so please do not attach such un-justifications with the God as He the merciful is the God of humans not of religions. If any group or groups believe cruel, unjust God then their God is untrue and does not exist. No doubt the God loves brave people who fight against cruelty, inequality, suppression, hatred, social injustice and who provide protection to weak against unjust aggressors. Such people are heroes or martyrs disregard of their religious attachments or clergies verdicts.

Selfish humans always want to excel others and to have special privileges in every field of life including religion or religious ceremonies so they manifest their pride to be coveted by others. They do not do such activities to please the God but to please themselves, concerned clergies and those humans who do not have faith in the God. The God does not like such ceremonies and true believers are not impressed by such frail activities. Majestic places of worship are also not built to please the God but to satisfy their architectural taste just as palaces or other buildings. Humbleness is necessary to pray the God and if majestic places cause (as often they do) loss of humbleness then actually their can be no prayers.

The God likes quality and not quantity and his quality standards are Godly. He may like much a bit of bread given by a hungry person who himself had not sufficient to satisfy his own hunger to another hungry person, than tons of food given by a wealthy person in alms. If a God’s believer who has not any wealth and does not yearn for that he/she does not have, being satisfied with his/her God's will, gives all that which he/she did not yearn for in the name of God (without materially giving) as I believe; so very high quality and quantity also can be achieved by the most poor of the God's believer. The clergies ranking, repute and influence is not awarded by the God and a lay man can be dearer to him than highest position holders of any religion. Sincerity of feelings is necessary for praying and ceremonial prayers with out feelings of attachment with concerned person/persons are merely ceremonial and not actually prayers. Pilgrimages to so called holy places are unnecessary if faith in the God is not enhanced. A person with out performing any pilgrimage can have better faith in the God than one who did. Whole universe is holy as it is God's manifestation. So poor need not worry about pleasing concerned clergies or performing pilgrimages. The God does not demand interference of clergies of any religion for granting forgiveness to humans. In fact it totally depends on sincerity of repentance and does not matter who or where the concerned human is.

Does wealth bring satisfaction or happiness? I have seen many rich persons feeling gloomy, lonely, and depressive and even committing suicides. I have also seen many poor living happily and enjoying life better than many rich. I think we all have heard stories of love in which one partner leaves luxurious life to live with his/her partner and I believe it can actually happen in some cases. No doubt they did/do it for happiness for which wealth is not necessary. No doubt sincerity in all human relations including family and friends gives happiness and satisfaction. Wealthy also some time wish to live simple, natural peaceful life. The God wants rich not to spend wealth on superfluous luxuries but to provide poor and needy with necessities of life. He warns them that if they did not behave properly, He will deprive them of happiness and satisfaction even they had much wealth and in life after death they also have to suffer. Humans bring miseries to themselves for their own faults. Affected by pride and selfishness they fight, cheat, betray and grab each others right. Such unjust activities bring suffering including illness and shortage of necessities. Had they been soft hearted, loving and kind to each other being believers of the God, they would have been certainly relieved and rewarded by the God by better life. Believers of the God can and surely live satisfied life with out luxuries.

Who so ever seeks the God whole heartedly surely finds. Followers of various religions not actually seek guidance but demand it from the God that it must be according to their cherished religion remaining with in prescribed boundaries taught by their respective clergies. Demanding guidance from Almighty with pre-conditions is totally unjust. Seeking guidance requires utter submission, surrendering all racial, linguistic, regional, and religious attachments and giving up all personal likings and attachments. The God loves every human more than any human can love him/her and if a human loves God above all attachments then he/she is surely blessed with guidance. I request clergies of all religions to free humanity and do not put conditions. No human can seek the God if he/she is not personally sincere, no matter to which religion he/she is attached with. No special prayers, special manners of prayers, special places of prayers are necessary to pray the God. He demands humbleness, truthfulness, and sincerity of feelings and does not care much about manners or group attachments as He is the God of universe, the God of mankind and not of religions, communities or groups. All humans were/are basically equal, no matter to which age they belonged and had/have equal opportunities to have faith in the God as unlike religions faith in the God is not a heritage.

The God is just and no un-justifications should be attached with his name as many religion holders or selfish humans attempt to satisfy their selfish wishes.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
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Toro

You're not a person Toro, you're a simulation of a thinking breathing human being reduced to writing little symbolic squiggles that splat against the inside of my monitors screen....

:)
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
If the God is unjust why humans do not avail every opportunity for their personal pleasures and progress, it may be at the cost of others blood and sufferings?

---------------------------------akbar asks us---------------------------------------------------------------

The Buddhists have an answer to that question. It's not built on God or the supernatural.
The answer is in the Four Noble Truths. They are accurate psychological insights.

The first truth is that all life is suffering.

Google the rest.

Learn something.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
"The god is just.."....Just what?

It's got to be too kool to be god.... never have to worry about missing a bus....

Your peanut butter and jelly sandwich never flips onto the floor jelly side down....

Furniture jumps out of your way when you stumble....

Sign me up!
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
33
48
Believers of the God had/have sublime human values because they had/have faith in the God and therefore in values also; so they keep values what ever conditions or circumstances may be.
Some believers yes, but certainly not all as you yourself have noted in your original post. So there is contradiction there in your post as there is also in religion.

Also do not atheists have values akbar? Where do their values come from?
 

akbar

Nominee Member
Mar 31, 2007
64
1
8
If the God is unjust why humans do not avail every opportunity for their personal pleasures and progress, it may be at the cost of others blood and sufferings?

---------------------------------akbar asks us---------------------------------------------------------------

The Buddhists have an answer to that question. It's not built on God or the supernatural.
The answer is in the Four Noble Truths. They are accurate psychological insights.

The first truth is that all life is suffering.

Google the rest.

Learn something.

You may or may not be right as I am not fully aware of Budhism but you rightfully understood my question. Thank you.
 

akbar

Nominee Member
Mar 31, 2007
64
1
8
Some believers yes, but certainly not all as you yourself have noted in your original post. So there is contradiction there in your post as there is also in religion.

Also do not atheists have values akbar? Where do their values come from?

I am thankful to you for pointing out contradictions in my views. I believe that those who do not have such values are no believers/half believers or so called believrs and atheist having values are non confessional believers. Such athiest may be apparent non believers but actually they are not.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
33
48
I am thankful to you for pointing out contradictions in my views. I believe that those who do not have such values are no believers/half believers or so called believrs and atheist having values are non confessional believers. Such athiest may be apparent non believers but actually they are not.
Okay are you then saying there is no such thing as an atheist?
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
You may or may not be right as I am not fully aware of Budhism but you rightfully understood my question. Thank you.
----------------------------------akbar-------------------------------------------------------

You are gracious akbar. Let me requote your original question:

If the God is unjust there can not be justifications of any sort. If the God is unjust let there be no values, no mercy, no kindness, no charities and no ethics of any sort. If the God is unjust why humans do not avail every opportunity for their personal pleasures and progress, it may be at the cost of others blood and sufferings? ----------end of quote of akbar's question.

Answer: Even if humans do not believe in God, it does not automatically follow that humans will elect to be bad and undisciplined.


The Buddhists understood this. No matter what school of Buddhism, all branches of it subscribe to the Four Noble Truths. It does not require a belief in God to understand the nature of seeking happiness. Happiness does not lie in the pursuit of cravings, the pursuit of desires and needs.
We all know that. How many times have you tried to gratify your immediate needs but not yet be satisfied or happy ? The comedians in this group will have fun with this. :)

The pursuit of happiness without God does not automaticly mean a lack of discipline of desires that lead us to ruin and unhappiness. A lot of people learn this with or without God.



The first noble truth is that all life is suffering.
2. Suffering is caused by craving, desire, wants, needs, expectations.
3. To eliminate suffering, eliminate craving.
4. To eliminate craving, follow the Eight Fold Path :

right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.


The answer here is that one does not have to believe in a God or believe that there is no God in order to find peace and happiness. Nirvana means "to blow out", as in blowing out the egoistic candle that burns in all of us.

The essential irony here, most notably observed by Zen Buddhists, is that any craving for Nirvana re-introduces suffering.

And so you get some very tricky dancing, famously expressed by what is the sound of one hand clapping, and also famously expressed in the phrase "crazy wisdom."
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
But master Jim if I blow out my little ego candle it will no longer reflect off the one and will I not be alone and cold and dead forever in the dark divorced from unity?:smile:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
LOL, my little Rozerum Commerical Darkbeaver, you have struck the core of the matter !!!

I am not evolved enough to want you to blow out your little ego candle.

Burn bright, grasshopper, burn bright into the night !!

Fear not Master I am evolved enough to extend my little spark much beyond yonder looming horizon, time will snuff my tiny flame anon and thou will be spared your precious puff of the ether.:smile:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
LOL, my little Rozerum Commerical Darkbeaver, you have struck the core of the matter !!!

I am not evolved enough to want you to blow out your little ego candle.

Burn bright, grasshopper, burn bright into the night !!

Fear not Master I am evolved enough to extend my little spark much beyond yonder looming horizon, time will snuff my tiny flame anon and thou will be spared your precious puff of air.:smile:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
LOL, my little Rozerum Commerical Darkbeaver, you have struck the core of the matter !!!

I am not evolved enough to want you to blow out your little ego candle.

Burn bright, grasshopper, burn bright into the night !!

Fear not Master I am not evolved enough to extend my little spark much beyond yonder looming horizon, time will snuff my tiny flame anon and thou will be spared your precious puff of air.:smile:
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Fear not Master I am not evolved enough to extend my little spark much beyond yonder looming horizon, time will snuff my tiny flame anon and thou will be spared your precious puff of air.
-----------------------------------------------darkbeaver-----------------------------------------------------


That is a sadness what that little puff of smoke signifies when a candle is blown out.

I suspect all religion or any belief system has to deal with the ego, as if all of this is about us, as if we are at the center of why.
 

akbar

Nominee Member
Mar 31, 2007
64
1
8
Okay are you then saying there is no such thing as an atheist?

Yes, I believe that if he/she has pure or sublime human values then he/she is so called atheist. If any body rises above the need of flesh then it means that he/she is reponding to desires of soul. If he/she behaves so then he/she is a believer may be un-declared one.
 

akbar

Nominee Member
Mar 31, 2007
64
1
8
You may or may not be right as I am not fully aware of Budhism but you rightfully understood my question. Thank you.
----------------------------------akbar-------------------------------------------------------

You are gracious akbar. Let me requote your original question:

If the God is unjust there can not be justifications of any sort. If the God is unjust let there be no values, no mercy, no kindness, no charities and no ethics of any sort. If the God is unjust why humans do not avail every opportunity for their personal pleasures and progress, it may be at the cost of others blood and sufferings? ----------end of quote of akbar's question.

Answer: Even if humans do not believe in God, it does not automatically follow that humans will elect to be bad and undisciplined.


The Buddhists understood this. No matter what school of Buddhism, all branches of it subscribe to the Four Noble Truths. It does not require a belief in God to understand the nature of seeking happiness. Happiness does not lie in the pursuit of cravings, the pursuit of desires and needs.
We all know that. How many times have you tried to gratify your immediate needs but not yet be satisfied or happy ? The comedians in this group will have fun with this. :)

The pursuit of happiness without God does not automaticly mean a lack of discipline of desires that lead us to ruin and unhappiness. A lot of people learn this with or without God.



The first noble truth is that all life is suffering.
2. Suffering is caused by craving, desire, wants, needs, expectations.
3. To eliminate suffering, eliminate craving.
4. To eliminate craving, follow the Eight Fold Path :

right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.


The answer here is that one does not have to believe in a God or believe that there is no God in order to find peace and happiness. Nirvana means "to blow out", as in blowing out the egoistic candle that burns in all of us.

The essential irony here, most notably observed by Zen Buddhists, is that any craving for Nirvana re-introduces suffering.

And so you get some very tricky dancing, famously expressed by what is the sound of one hand clapping, and also famously expressed in the phrase "crazy wisdom."

The values you have mentioned here may not be in a non believer person. You are right to say that pure happiness is happiness of soul and not flesh and it is lasting one. You would have certainly noticed that pure melody (not pop one) provides a deeper satisfaction/happiness. It does not serve any physical requirement then what is it?