Council Member
Posts: 1,960 
Location: china
Location: china
March 25th, 2007, 05:29 AM
darkbeaver....
You're in heaven now China, this is the fabled garden and the dreaded hell. Your glass must always be half empty and half full, that is balance, without the one you would not know the other.Without light there is no shadow, without wisdom no ignorance, no small no great.
What you are describing is duality and where there are opposites, there must be the consciousness of incompleteness. The mind is caught up in opposites, such as punishment and reward, good and bad, past and future, gain and loss. Thought is caught up in this duality, and therefore there is incompleteness in action. This incompleteness creates suffering, the conflict of choice, effort and authority, and the escape from the unessential to the essential.Is this forum your escape from that "which is" , darkbeaver?
darkbeaver....
You're in heaven now China, this is the fabled garden and the dreaded hell. Your glass must always be half empty and half full, that is balance, without the one you would not know the other.Without light there is no shadow, without wisdom no ignorance, no small no great.
What you are describing is duality and where there are opposites, there must be the consciousness of incompleteness. The mind is caught up in opposites, such as punishment and reward, good and bad, past and future, gain and loss. Thought is caught up in this duality, and therefore there is incompleteness in action. This incompleteness creates suffering, the conflict of choice, effort and authority, and the escape from the unessential to the essential.Is this forum your escape from that "which is" , darkbeaver?
Council Member
Posts: 1,960
Location: china
Location: china
March 25th, 2007, 08:09 AM
tamarin There are only two opposites: light and shadow. All the rest are subordinates.
__________________________________________________ _______________ Yeap , and that's one of the reasons that I don't live in Canada.
tamarin There are only two opposites: light and shadow. All the rest are subordinates.__________________________________________________ _______________ Yeap , and that's one of the reasons that I don't live in Canada.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,294 
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 25th, 2007, 09:18 AM
Quoting china
There is no escape, not even in death.
darkbeaver....
You're in heaven now China, this is the fabled garden and the dreaded hell. Your glass must always be half empty and half full, that is balance, without the one you would not know the other.Without light there is no shadow, without wisdom no ignorance, no small no great.
What you are describing is duality and where there are opposites, there must be the consciousness of incompleteness. The mind is caught up in opposites, such as punishment and reward, good and bad, past and future, gain and loss. Thought is caught up in this duality, and therefore there is incompleteness in action. This incompleteness creates suffering, the conflict of choice, effort and authority, and the escape from the unessential to the essential.Is this forum your escape from that "which is" , darkbeaver?
You're in heaven now China, this is the fabled garden and the dreaded hell. Your glass must always be half empty and half full, that is balance, without the one you would not know the other.Without light there is no shadow, without wisdom no ignorance, no small no great.
What you are describing is duality and where there are opposites, there must be the consciousness of incompleteness. The mind is caught up in opposites, such as punishment and reward, good and bad, past and future, gain and loss. Thought is caught up in this duality, and therefore there is incompleteness in action. This incompleteness creates suffering, the conflict of choice, effort and authority, and the escape from the unessential to the essential.Is this forum your escape from that "which is" , darkbeaver?
March 25th, 2007, 11:01 AM
Quoting darkbeaver
I agree, we all in this together and no ones getting out alive.
There is no escape, not even in death.
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 25th, 2007, 12:07 PM
But then, there is the spiritual side of which the following applies:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Of which death is it speaking about in that verse: Physical death or spiritual death?
When knowledge first comes into our lives, we find death (Spirit) is our end, but then the judgment begins, for the flesh.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Begins, meaning that now we stand on our own behavior. We are judged daily with every word and action we do, (against that what God's instructions are), by God and the public.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
This is a personal judgment accountable only to our selves.
But God intervened in our behalf and took the first death away and upon acknowledgment of Him, there is no second death.(Better termed: no more death)
So, if we acknowledge Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are born of Him (His Spirit) and we die no more. (Spiritually speaking)
We understand that separation from God is death? And that that is what Jesus came to fix? And that He has done it for all mankind?
Like all of us, He to died physically, which matters nothing. But that He arose again to life, is what is KEY to our salvation, for if He arose again, so will we.
That is why it says: Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Now, we have a choice, either accept Him now and recieve the full benefits of His Kingdom here on earth, or wait till you die, meantime enduring this life without Him.
Why when we get sick, or are close to death we suddenly look to God for help? Or when we get into deep trouble we suddenly remember that maybe if there is a God He might help us?
We are human beings with weaknesses of the flesh, therefore, in order to get above that, we need to have in us a higher power that what the flesh can give, and that is Gods power over the flesh.
Yes, many of you may think to be content in your own selves for as long as your health holds out, but get cancer or some terminal sickness, and see if your thoughts don't turn to wonder, if maybe there really is a God?
Why wait for such times, when you can start right now to enjoy the benefits of His Kingdom?
It does not require any of us to reach a certain status of holiness, or belong to any certain church, or to follow any certain rule.
All that is required is that we have a change of mind! Meaning, believe in Jesus as your only and true Savior of your soul, and confess your sins directly to Him, and He is willing to forgive all your sins and cleanse you from with in, and make you acceptable on to God as faultless.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Where ever you are, who ever you are all you have to do is call on Him! That simple, no help from anyone else.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Well, you've herded it here and now and so you are without excuse.
Look at it, contemplate it and make a decision as to what you want to believe, and act on it.
Notice: that there is no requirement to belong to any church group?
Going to any church is an indication that you want to be close to God. That is acceptable! Worship where you feel comfortable and can be of service. to God and fellow souls.
If you have God quality type of love, then you can fit in anywhere with anybody regardless if they accept you or not, because you are above all that the flesh is, and nothing can deter you from that love. A sure foundation is Christ.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting CDNBear
All born in the flesh must one day die. (Inevitable and a given)
I agree, we all in this together and no ones getting out alive.
But then, there is the spiritual side of which the following applies:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Of which death is it speaking about in that verse: Physical death or spiritual death?
When knowledge first comes into our lives, we find death (Spirit) is our end, but then the judgment begins, for the flesh.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Begins, meaning that now we stand on our own behavior. We are judged daily with every word and action we do, (against that what God's instructions are), by God and the public.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
This is a personal judgment accountable only to our selves.
But God intervened in our behalf and took the first death away and upon acknowledgment of Him, there is no second death.(Better termed: no more death)
So, if we acknowledge Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are born of Him (His Spirit) and we die no more. (Spiritually speaking)
We understand that separation from God is death? And that that is what Jesus came to fix? And that He has done it for all mankind?
Like all of us, He to died physically, which matters nothing. But that He arose again to life, is what is KEY to our salvation, for if He arose again, so will we.
That is why it says: Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Now, we have a choice, either accept Him now and recieve the full benefits of His Kingdom here on earth, or wait till you die, meantime enduring this life without Him.
Why when we get sick, or are close to death we suddenly look to God for help? Or when we get into deep trouble we suddenly remember that maybe if there is a God He might help us?
We are human beings with weaknesses of the flesh, therefore, in order to get above that, we need to have in us a higher power that what the flesh can give, and that is Gods power over the flesh.
Yes, many of you may think to be content in your own selves for as long as your health holds out, but get cancer or some terminal sickness, and see if your thoughts don't turn to wonder, if maybe there really is a God?
Why wait for such times, when you can start right now to enjoy the benefits of His Kingdom?
It does not require any of us to reach a certain status of holiness, or belong to any certain church, or to follow any certain rule.
All that is required is that we have a change of mind! Meaning, believe in Jesus as your only and true Savior of your soul, and confess your sins directly to Him, and He is willing to forgive all your sins and cleanse you from with in, and make you acceptable on to God as faultless.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Where ever you are, who ever you are all you have to do is call on Him! That simple, no help from anyone else.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Well, you've herded it here and now and so you are without excuse.
Look at it, contemplate it and make a decision as to what you want to believe, and act on it.
Notice: that there is no requirement to belong to any church group?
Going to any church is an indication that you want to be close to God. That is acceptable! Worship where you feel comfortable and can be of service. to God and fellow souls.
If you have God quality type of love, then you can fit in anywhere with anybody regardless if they accept you or not, because you are above all that the flesh is, and nothing can deter you from that love. A sure foundation is Christ.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Peace>>>AJ
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 25th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Like I said, you have a choice to believe or not. The option is definitely there whether we like it or not.
But then again, if we should choose to believe, then we are guaranteed acceptance and granted the full membership status in the Christs church.
That's a choice!
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting CDNBear
The teacher tells me what is, how it is and my options. I in turn choose to believe what the teacher tells me.
And then I shed my kaki earthly coils and goin my ancestors in the Great Hunting Grounds.
You don't have a lock on spirituality my friend, no matter what your teacher tells you.
You don't have a lock on spirituality my friend, no matter what your teacher tells you.
Like I said, you have a choice to believe or not. The option is definitely there whether we like it or not.
But then again, if we should choose to believe, then we are guaranteed acceptance and granted the full membership status in the Christs church.
That's a choice!
Peace>>>AJ
Council Member
Posts: 1,960
Location: china
Location: china
March 25th, 2007, 08:50 PM
CDNBear ,.... I agree, we all in this together and no ones getting out alive.
Ok ,let's talk .If you won't be alive ,what are you going to do in the Grat Hunting Grounds. Are the GHG just a faint hope ,or are they reality ? Let's face it ,you don't know ; but we can talk about it .
CDNBear ,.... I agree, we all in this together and no ones getting out alive.
Ok ,let's talk .If you won't be alive ,what are you going to do in the Grat Hunting Grounds. Are the GHG just a faint hope ,or are they reality ? Let's face it ,you don't know ; but we can talk about it .
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,294
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 25th, 2007, 09:02 PM
Quoting china
There's no escape from the earth (the garden). Escape from myself is easy.
darkbeaver ,
There is no escape, not even in death--------------------------------
Escape from what..........yourself ? Bin there before ,eh ?
There is no escape, not even in death--------------------------------
Escape from what..........yourself ? Bin there before ,eh ?
Council Member
Posts: 1,960
Location: china
Location: china
March 25th, 2007, 09:16 PM
darkbeaver ,
There's no escape from the earth (the garden).
...agree , your body might make a fair feltilizer .
__________________________________________________ __________
Escape from myself is easy.______________________________
....besides your Ego which is "self created", what is 'myself' ?
darkbeaver ,
There's no escape from the earth (the garden).
...agree , your body might make a fair feltilizer .
__________________________________________________ __________
Escape from myself is easy.______________________________
....besides your Ego which is "self created", what is 'myself' ?
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 25th, 2007, 09:18 PM
Thankfully, we had nothing to do with that, had we, we'd be in allot of hurt!
Jesus Christ the deliverer of our souls has performed to perfection the requirement for the penality of of death for all of us.
What we now have because in Him, our souls.are ransomed.
Hos 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Pro 13:8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.
That is, if we can appreciate the rasom!
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting china
Atlas, my friends! Death is the reliever of the pent up spirit/soul of which is bought and paid for.
darkbeaver ,
There is no escape, not even in death--------------------------------
Escape from what..........yourself ? Bin there before ,eh ?
There is no escape, not even in death--------------------------------
Escape from what..........yourself ? Bin there before ,eh ?
Thankfully, we had nothing to do with that, had we, we'd be in allot of hurt!
Jesus Christ the deliverer of our souls has performed to perfection the requirement for the penality of of death for all of us.
What we now have because in Him, our souls.are ransomed.
Hos 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Pro 13:8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.
That is, if we can appreciate the rasom!
Peace>>>AJ
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,294
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 25th, 2007, 09:58 PM
The borrowed part of me that isn't my body.
Quoting china
darkbeaver ,
There's no escape from the earth (the garden).
...agree , your body might make a fair feltilizer .
__________________________________________________ __________
Escape from myself is easy.______________________________
....besides your Ego which is "self created", what is 'myself' ?
There's no escape from the earth (the garden).
...agree , your body might make a fair feltilizer .
__________________________________________________ __________
Escape from myself is easy.______________________________
....besides your Ego which is "self created", what is 'myself' ?
The borrowed part of me that isn't my body.
House Member
Posts: 3,661
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 26th, 2007, 01:14 AM
Yes, it's really me this time...
I've been thinking about this for about 24 hours. I really have no clear idea what 'born again' means in the Christian context, and as far as I know it has no meaning in any other context. It seems to be an idea unique to certain rather literalist and fundamentalist Christian groups and doesn't appear to have any meaning in what we generally call 'mainstream' Christianity. Whatever that means... I don't recall ever hearing a Catholic or Anglican (Episcopalian for you Americans and Scots) or Lutheran or Baptist or etc. talk about being born again. I note that our resident priest, sanctus, has posted only once in this thread, and that was to address a very specific and rather peripheral point made by WMG that he felt was incorrect (and I agree with him), not to comment on the nature of being born again.
I've encountered the usual Christian proselytizers trying to sell me on the idea. I've even once seen somebody going through an experience she later described as being born again, though what seemed to me to be going on was just an adolescent emotional binge. I don't know whether it stuck either, I haven't seen her for many years. Somebody posted early on in this thread about being born again at the age of 8 at a summer camp, which just leaves me incredulous. Nobody at that age has the knowledge, experience, or critical faculties, to make an informed choice about such things. That smacks of brainwashing to me.
From a deeply religious upbringing I arrived by slow and often painful stages, after years of thought and study, at the atheist position. Nothing else seems rationally defensible to me. If religion is going to represent itself as offering explanations that compete with science, evidence, and reason, and it usually does, then it has to offer testable predictions and be responsible to the evidence and reason, and at that it always fails in my view. To explain the cosmos it postulates something even more mysterious and complex than the cosmos, a deity, then declares itself and everybody else to be incompetent to explain the deity. It creates an infinite regress, who created the deity, who created whoever created the deity, who created that being, etc., which it quite arbitrarily cuts off at the first step. That kind of thinking goes exactly nowhere for me. Every discussion I've ever had in real life with believers ends up with them saying, in essence, "There's more you know." Well no, I don't know that, and nobody's ever offered me any evidence or reason to think that might be a correct claim that doesn't admit of much simpler explanations.
And believe me, I've looked for such evidence and reason, long and hard, because for a long time I wanted to believe, and some parts of me still do sometimes. Who wouldn't want to believe that they'll eventually be reunited with loved ones who've died? But the evidence just isn't there.
Yes, it's really me this time...
I've been thinking about this for about 24 hours. I really have no clear idea what 'born again' means in the Christian context, and as far as I know it has no meaning in any other context. It seems to be an idea unique to certain rather literalist and fundamentalist Christian groups and doesn't appear to have any meaning in what we generally call 'mainstream' Christianity. Whatever that means... I don't recall ever hearing a Catholic or Anglican (Episcopalian for you Americans and Scots) or Lutheran or Baptist or etc. talk about being born again. I note that our resident priest, sanctus, has posted only once in this thread, and that was to address a very specific and rather peripheral point made by WMG that he felt was incorrect (and I agree with him), not to comment on the nature of being born again.
I've encountered the usual Christian proselytizers trying to sell me on the idea. I've even once seen somebody going through an experience she later described as being born again, though what seemed to me to be going on was just an adolescent emotional binge. I don't know whether it stuck either, I haven't seen her for many years. Somebody posted early on in this thread about being born again at the age of 8 at a summer camp, which just leaves me incredulous. Nobody at that age has the knowledge, experience, or critical faculties, to make an informed choice about such things. That smacks of brainwashing to me.
From a deeply religious upbringing I arrived by slow and often painful stages, after years of thought and study, at the atheist position. Nothing else seems rationally defensible to me. If religion is going to represent itself as offering explanations that compete with science, evidence, and reason, and it usually does, then it has to offer testable predictions and be responsible to the evidence and reason, and at that it always fails in my view. To explain the cosmos it postulates something even more mysterious and complex than the cosmos, a deity, then declares itself and everybody else to be incompetent to explain the deity. It creates an infinite regress, who created the deity, who created whoever created the deity, who created that being, etc., which it quite arbitrarily cuts off at the first step. That kind of thinking goes exactly nowhere for me. Every discussion I've ever had in real life with believers ends up with them saying, in essence, "There's more you know." Well no, I don't know that, and nobody's ever offered me any evidence or reason to think that might be a correct claim that doesn't admit of much simpler explanations.
And believe me, I've looked for such evidence and reason, long and hard, because for a long time I wanted to believe, and some parts of me still do sometimes. Who wouldn't want to believe that they'll eventually be reunited with loved ones who've died? But the evidence just isn't there.
