December 23rd, 2006, 08:17 AM
Who is God?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
Who is God?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
Time Out
Posts: 4,276 
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
December 23rd, 2006, 08:35 AM
You always say my heart. I think we dont see the mountain because we carry so much pain. But when you sit in the quiet of the forest you hear the rythm, the heart beat. and being Pagan, catholic, baptist, hindi, whatever lable you choose, it all rolls away with that beat. The drum is so prevailent in many beliefs and it represents the heart beat. With every breath that beat is slower, calmer, steadier. As your breath gets deeper your heart becomes stedier. In THAT Peace is the one sorce that creates everything, that IS everything. Just quiet yourself long enough to BE. I am so tired of arguements over the most beautiful existance in life. I cry sometimes because "noone" "gets" my beliefs. I dont need anyones validation over a name. I FEEL that being in my being and KNOW I am well. I pray to that being you are well.
Wado, Wado
You always say my heart. I think we dont see the mountain because we carry so much pain. But when you sit in the quiet of the forest you hear the rythm, the heart beat. and being Pagan, catholic, baptist, hindi, whatever lable you choose, it all rolls away with that beat. The drum is so prevailent in many beliefs and it represents the heart beat. With every breath that beat is slower, calmer, steadier. As your breath gets deeper your heart becomes stedier. In THAT Peace is the one sorce that creates everything, that IS everything. Just quiet yourself long enough to BE. I am so tired of arguements over the most beautiful existance in life. I cry sometimes because "noone" "gets" my beliefs. I dont need anyones validation over a name. I FEEL that being in my being and KNOW I am well. I pray to that being you are well.
Wado, Wado
December 23rd, 2006, 09:34 AM
That is pretty much my take on the whole religion issue self.
I beleive that not one is right, and yet none are wrong.
It is in the beauty you see in them, the peace, or the tranquility you take from them, that the true meaning is derived from.
When we step away from what drew us to them in the first place, we lose sight of what it was we found in them in the first place.
If all reveled and loved within their chosen religious beleifs, without analysing others, with the scope of what it is you beleive. We could put to rest the feelings that stretch our souls to the breaking point and create the anomosity that is so prevalent in modern religious conflict.
That is pretty much my take on the whole religion issue self.
I beleive that not one is right, and yet none are wrong.
It is in the beauty you see in them, the peace, or the tranquility you take from them, that the true meaning is derived from.
When we step away from what drew us to them in the first place, we lose sight of what it was we found in them in the first place.
If all reveled and loved within their chosen religious beleifs, without analysing others, with the scope of what it is you beleive. We could put to rest the feelings that stretch our souls to the breaking point and create the anomosity that is so prevalent in modern religious conflict.
Time Out
Posts: 4,276
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
December 23rd, 2006, 09:48 AM
I think I need to sit with all the beatiful lesons Ive learned around the council fire this morning. I will bring out the song of the drum and contimplate its song and my heart. Whats amazing on this path is the sharing and the openess that plays with my heart. It swells when its true and I feel full up with a Love that encompasses the world. Im honoured Bear to have met you here around this fire and I know some will walk away but some will read and KNOW our intent. It honours me to KNOW we ARE Human Beings. Human Beings of the great Turtle Island. One heart beating, one breath breathing life into all beings. I will sit and contemplate our journey this morning and I thank you for the gift only you could give to a lost soul. Peace.
I think I need to sit with all the beatiful lesons Ive learned around the council fire this morning. I will bring out the song of the drum and contimplate its song and my heart. Whats amazing on this path is the sharing and the openess that plays with my heart. It swells when its true and I feel full up with a Love that encompasses the world. Im honoured Bear to have met you here around this fire and I know some will walk away but some will read and KNOW our intent. It honours me to KNOW we ARE Human Beings. Human Beings of the great Turtle Island. One heart beating, one breath breathing life into all beings. I will sit and contemplate our journey this morning and I thank you for the gift only you could give to a lost soul. Peace.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,629
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
December 23rd, 2006, 03:18 PM
[quote=selfactivated;759837]I think I need to sit with all the beatiful lesons Ive learned around the council fire this morning. I will bring out the song of the drum and contimplate its song and my heart. Whats amazing on this path is the sharing and the openess that plays with my heart. It swells when its true and I feel full up with a Love that encompasses the world. Im honoured Bear to have met you here around this fire and I know some will walk away but some will read and KNOW our intent. It honours me to KNOW we ARE Human Beings. Human Beings of the great Turtle Island. One heart beating, one breath breathing life into all beings. I will sit and contemplate our journey this morning and I thank you for the gift only you could give to a lost soul. Peace
beautiful, peaceful and calming
[quote=selfactivated;759837]I think I need to sit with all the beatiful lesons Ive learned around the council fire this morning. I will bring out the song of the drum and contimplate its song and my heart. Whats amazing on this path is the sharing and the openess that plays with my heart. It swells when its true and I feel full up with a Love that encompasses the world. Im honoured Bear to have met you here around this fire and I know some will walk away but some will read and KNOW our intent. It honours me to KNOW we ARE Human Beings. Human Beings of the great Turtle Island. One heart beating, one breath breathing life into all beings. I will sit and contemplate our journey this morning and I thank you for the gift only you could give to a lost soul. Peace
beautiful, peaceful and calming
Les
Posts: 6,139
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
December 23rd, 2006, 04:11 PM
Quoting CDNBear
I'm on top and looking at all you ants with great humor and marvelling at the view of the countryside that the universe made and I was fortunate enough to see.
Who is God?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
December 26th, 2006, 05:55 AM
However, it is somewhat dangerous spiritually to accord all faith groups the same level of relationship with God. The Bible, for example, is not the same as other holy books. It is the single evidence of God's relationship with His creation.
In essence, what I am trying to write is that despite the many fine attributes of pagan religions, there is only one clear way to faithfully see God, and that is through Christ and Christ alone.
Quoting CDNBear
In a multi-cultural world, we find the new ideology that all roads lead to the same place. In essence, obviously God reaches into the hearts of all people, regardless of faith or religious preference. Truth is universal, regardless of its flavour.
Who is God?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
Is he not the same as Allah?
Is the Great Spirit not the same?
The Torah is, the Quran, is the Bible, is the Creation story of the Haudenosaunee and many other Nations(sorry for the Native spin, to those of you that object, but it is a part of my culture and religion).
I beleive they are, I beleive that we all just have a differring views of the same thing.
It is like me looking at the Mountain from the East, a Catholic seeing it from the south, a Muslim from the North and a Jew from the West. We all see the Mountain. We all see its majesty and grandure, we all believe in what we see. We just see the samething from a different angle and nothing more.
So why is one view more or less validthen the other?
Is it because of the trappings added to our view?
Perhaps it's trees that may obstruct our view, so we must lean or twist to see the Mountain better?
However, it is somewhat dangerous spiritually to accord all faith groups the same level of relationship with God. The Bible, for example, is not the same as other holy books. It is the single evidence of God's relationship with His creation.
In essence, what I am trying to write is that despite the many fine attributes of pagan religions, there is only one clear way to faithfully see God, and that is through Christ and Christ alone.
December 26th, 2006, 06:51 AM
Quoting sanctus
But I do not only compare paganism here. The Quran and the Torah are in essence the Old Testaments. The fundamentals of all major religioins are rooted in the same ground. They merely branched off, took there own paths. But they are brothers, preaching the words of their father as they heard them. But as brothers, isn't the bond of the birthright stronger then an interpretation of their works?
In a multi-cultural world, we find the new ideology that all roads lead to the same place. In essence, obviously God reaches into the hearts of all people, regardless of faith or religious preference. Truth is universal, regardless of its flavour.
However, it is somewhat dangerous spiritually to accord all faith groups the same level of relationship with God. The Bible, for example, is not the same as other holy books. It is the single evidence of God's relationship with His creation.
In essence, what I am trying to write is that despite the many fine attributes of pagan religions, there is only one clear way to faithfully see God, and that is through Christ and Christ alone.
However, it is somewhat dangerous spiritually to accord all faith groups the same level of relationship with God. The Bible, for example, is not the same as other holy books. It is the single evidence of God's relationship with His creation.
In essence, what I am trying to write is that despite the many fine attributes of pagan religions, there is only one clear way to faithfully see God, and that is through Christ and Christ alone.
Council Member
Posts: 1,434
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
December 26th, 2006, 08:00 AM
Quoting sanctus
Sanctus, why? How do you know?
In essence, what I am trying to write is that despite the many fine attributes of pagan religions, there is only one clear way to faithfully see God, and that is through Christ and Christ alone.
Genius
Posts: 864
Location: windsor,ontario
Location: windsor,ontario
December 26th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Quoting Vereya
thats what i wanted to ask too. i think jesus just wants us to be good people, dosent matter what our label is.
Sanctus, why? How do you know?
December 26th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Quoting mapleleafgirl
Absolutely, his words were not to force you to bow before God, but rather live a life to a higher standard, in the name of his Father, but his Fathers name is Allah, God etc. So anyone that believes in God by any name, is following the path of the righteous, no?
thats what i wanted to ask too. i think jesus just wants us to be good people, dosent matter what our label is.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
December 26th, 2006, 02:08 PM
But when it comes to the essentials, we know, or rather if you prefer we beieve, that the fulness of God's truth is spoken through His Church. This is a core belief of the Church.
In other words, others have pieces of the puzzle, but the church is the total puzzle.
We are required to accept the traditions and Scriptures as being accurate portrayls of God's complete message. That being the case, we know that even if they are unaware of it, it is only through Jesus that man approaches God. And it is only through Mary that we approach Jesus.
Quoting CDNBear
Ona very basic level, truth is truth and God's truth transcends into all religions. this is why the Church celebrates those common themes we find in other religions.
But I do not only compare paganism here. The Quran and the Torah are in essence the Old Testaments. The fundamentals of all major religioins are rooted in the same ground. They merely branched off, took there own paths. But they are brothers, preaching the words of their father as they heard them. But as brothers, isn't the bond of the birthright stronger then an interpretation of their works?
But when it comes to the essentials, we know, or rather if you prefer we beieve, that the fulness of God's truth is spoken through His Church. This is a core belief of the Church.
In other words, others have pieces of the puzzle, but the church is the total puzzle.
We are required to accept the traditions and Scriptures as being accurate portrayls of God's complete message. That being the case, we know that even if they are unaware of it, it is only through Jesus that man approaches God. And it is only through Mary that we approach Jesus.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
December 26th, 2006, 02:10 PM
Because that is what Tradition and Scripture teaches us- and in His own words our Blessed Saviour was quite cear that "no man comes to the Father except through Me." It is not our place, as Christians, to dispute this teaching, for that would be to dispute the message God has delivered unto us.
Quoting Vereya
Sanctus, why? How do you know?
Because that is what Tradition and Scripture teaches us- and in His own words our Blessed Saviour was quite cear that "no man comes to the Father except through Me." It is not our place, as Christians, to dispute this teaching, for that would be to dispute the message God has delivered unto us.
December 26th, 2006, 06:29 PM
So, when our time comes, you walk to the edge of the clouds and stretch out your hand. I'll walk to the edge of the Great Hunting Grounds and stretch out mine. We can take each other by the hand and show each other, that we were right. Then I'll take you fishing. Do you like trout? Can you fly fish? No matter, I'll have eternity to teach you, and I'll enjoy introducing you to my Grand Father a devoute RC.
If you reach out your hand and I'm not there to grab hold, wait for me. I'll be there one day. I'll will wait for you if I make it there first.
Quoting sanctus
I'll bet you, that in more then a few years, I will be taking you fishing in the Great Hunting grounds. I'm not being a smartass, I'm saying that, what you and I see is one in the same. You see angels, I see wild life. You see clouds and perly gates, I see the Adirondaks. You see Jesus, I see the spirit in all things. You see God, I see The Great Spirit. I see it as a matter of symantics and nothing more.
Ona very basic level, truth is truth and God's truth transcends into all religions. this is why the Church celebrates those common themes we find in other religions.
But when it comes to the essentials, we know, or rather if you prefer we beieve, that the fulness of God's truth is spoken through His Church. This is a core belief of the Church.
In other words, others have pieces of the puzzle, but the church is the total puzzle.
We are required to accept the traditions and Scriptures as being accurate portrayls of God's complete message. That being the case, we know that even if they are unaware of it, it is only through Jesus that man approaches God. And it is only through Mary that we approach Jesus.
But when it comes to the essentials, we know, or rather if you prefer we beieve, that the fulness of God's truth is spoken through His Church. This is a core belief of the Church.
In other words, others have pieces of the puzzle, but the church is the total puzzle.
We are required to accept the traditions and Scriptures as being accurate portrayls of God's complete message. That being the case, we know that even if they are unaware of it, it is only through Jesus that man approaches God. And it is only through Mary that we approach Jesus.
So, when our time comes, you walk to the edge of the clouds and stretch out your hand. I'll walk to the edge of the Great Hunting Grounds and stretch out mine. We can take each other by the hand and show each other, that we were right. Then I'll take you fishing. Do you like trout? Can you fly fish? No matter, I'll have eternity to teach you, and I'll enjoy introducing you to my Grand Father a devoute RC.
If you reach out your hand and I'm not there to grab hold, wait for me. I'll be there one day. I'll will wait for you if I make it there first.
Time Out
Posts: 4,276
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
December 26th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Thats all well and good to talk of the Summerlands but Bear its people like Sanctus and his church that make my life hell on earth. They look down their noses and call people like me psychotic, the try to take people like me's kids because what we believe is "not normal" You know how you feel about Quebec? Well "the church" is my Quebec.
Quoting CDNBear
I'll bet you, that in more then a few years, I will be taking you fishing in the Great Hunting grounds. I'm not being a smartass, I'm saying that, what you and I see is one in the same. You see angels, I see wild life. You see clouds and perly gates, I see the Adirondaks. You see Jesus, I see the spirit in all things. You see God, I see The Great Spirit. I see it as a matter of symantics and nothing more.
So, when our time comes, you walk to the edge of the clouds and stretch out your hand. I'll walk to the edge of the Great Hunting Grounds and stretch out mine. We can take each other by the hand and show each other, that we were right. Then I'll take you fishing. Do you like trout? Can you fly fish? No matter, I'll have eternity to teach you, and I'll enjoy introducing you to my Grand Father a devoute RC.
If you reach out your hand and I'm not there to grab hold, wait for me. I'll be there one day. I'll will wait for you if I make it there first.
So, when our time comes, you walk to the edge of the clouds and stretch out your hand. I'll walk to the edge of the Great Hunting Grounds and stretch out mine. We can take each other by the hand and show each other, that we were right. Then I'll take you fishing. Do you like trout? Can you fly fish? No matter, I'll have eternity to teach you, and I'll enjoy introducing you to my Grand Father a devoute RC.
If you reach out your hand and I'm not there to grab hold, wait for me. I'll be there one day. I'll will wait for you if I make it there first.
Thats all well and good to talk of the Summerlands but Bear its people like Sanctus and his church that make my life hell on earth. They look down their noses and call people like me psychotic, the try to take people like me's kids because what we believe is "not normal" You know how you feel about Quebec? Well "the church" is my Quebec.
December 27th, 2006, 05:21 AM
Actually self, I feel more resentment towords the church, then towords Quebec, separately. I see them more as a singular, because their history goes hand in hand.
Do not confuse my calm and reason for acceptance or or some form of absolotion. The church has far to go. The short history between sanctus and I, has been frought with agression on my part and at times smug self righteousness on the part of sactus. We are never likely to see eye to eye while we are bound by the mortal coils of earth. So I pray that one day, once shead of our mortal coils, we shall see that neither was wrong, nor right. That God is monumentally more infinate then we gave him or her credit for.
I pray that you find solice in the fact that, they know not, what wrong they do, they merely follow the words as tought to them. There belief, as misguided as we may sometimes see it, is a belief, no less valid then ours, and no less deserving, of our respect.
Actually self, I feel more resentment towords the church, then towords Quebec, separately. I see them more as a singular, because their history goes hand in hand.
Do not confuse my calm and reason for acceptance or or some form of absolotion. The church has far to go. The short history between sanctus and I, has been frought with agression on my part and at times smug self righteousness on the part of sactus. We are never likely to see eye to eye while we are bound by the mortal coils of earth. So I pray that one day, once shead of our mortal coils, we shall see that neither was wrong, nor right. That God is monumentally more infinate then we gave him or her credit for.
I pray that you find solice in the fact that, they know not, what wrong they do, they merely follow the words as tought to them. There belief, as misguided as we may sometimes see it, is a belief, no less valid then ours, and no less deserving, of our respect.
