Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,976 
February 11th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I have never had a pleasant experience flying with Air Canada. It has always been a nightmare, they have more excuses for incompetance than our Governments. Food what food, you now have to pay for the privlage of being poisoned. I use to love flying with Canadian or Air Transat, great service and I was never once bumped off a flight.
I have never had a pleasant experience flying with Air Canada. It has always been a nightmare, they have more excuses for incompetance than our Governments. Food what food, you now have to pay for the privlage of being poisoned. I use to love flying with Canadian or Air Transat, great service and I was never once bumped off a flight.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
February 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Well unless I drive to Montreal I have to either fly Air Canada or take a US carrier to a Canadian city which is very inconvenient. So convenience is an important consideration.
I usually work off of averages and don’t let one or two bad experiences impact on my view of something especially if this negative opinion is going to make future travel inconvenient.
There are ways to improve your experience. If your luggage is repeatedly getting lost--and not just being put on a later flight but really lost—then I would try and isolate the cause. I would suspect that it is intentional. Getting angry with a ticket clerk for example is a bad idea as the clerk has the ability to send your bags to Hong Kong. As stupid as they may appear to you they nevertheless have the power to make your life miserable. Be nice, smile and say thank you and then smile again.
Well unless I drive to Montreal I have to either fly Air Canada or take a US carrier to a Canadian city which is very inconvenient. So convenience is an important consideration.
I usually work off of averages and don’t let one or two bad experiences impact on my view of something especially if this negative opinion is going to make future travel inconvenient.
There are ways to improve your experience. If your luggage is repeatedly getting lost--and not just being put on a later flight but really lost—then I would try and isolate the cause. I would suspect that it is intentional. Getting angry with a ticket clerk for example is a bad idea as the clerk has the ability to send your bags to Hong Kong. As stupid as they may appear to you they nevertheless have the power to make your life miserable. Be nice, smile and say thank you and then smile again.
Newbie
Posts: 2
March 5th, 2006, 04:07 PM
I have to agree with the "Air Canada Sucks" comment. I fly several times a week. Few carriers can claim good service these days, but the attitude at Air Canada is consistently "you can't do that and here's our rule that says why" At WestJet, the attitude is "let's see if there's a good way to do that.." Recent example - Air Canada - at check-in - "sure, you can stand by for the earlier flight if you can get to the gate in time" - Air Canada at the gate " they shouldn't have told you that at check-in - If you want to stand by you have to go back to check in (outside security and US Immigration) and pay an extra $25." "Can I pay it here?" "no" Can I get your name? "no" Would you please call a supervisor? "no" - I walked over to Westjet and asked - Can I buy a ticket on this flight that's leaving in 20 minutes? - "Sure - let me figure this out and we'll get you on"
I have to agree with the "Air Canada Sucks" comment. I fly several times a week. Few carriers can claim good service these days, but the attitude at Air Canada is consistently "you can't do that and here's our rule that says why" At WestJet, the attitude is "let's see if there's a good way to do that.." Recent example - Air Canada - at check-in - "sure, you can stand by for the earlier flight if you can get to the gate in time" - Air Canada at the gate " they shouldn't have told you that at check-in - If you want to stand by you have to go back to check in (outside security and US Immigration) and pay an extra $25." "Can I pay it here?" "no" Can I get your name? "no" Would you please call a supervisor? "no" - I walked over to Westjet and asked - Can I buy a ticket on this flight that's leaving in 20 minutes? - "Sure - let me figure this out and we'll get you on"
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
March 5th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Hi rjmccall, welcome to the forum!
Hi rjmccall, welcome to the forum!
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,995 
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
March 5th, 2006, 06:16 PM
WestJet.
Cultures are very, very hard to change in corporations and organizations. For decades, AC was run like the government monopoly it was. That culture of entitlement ran deep in the airline. Its certainly better than it once was, but WestJet still beats them hands down on service.
WestJet.
Cultures are very, very hard to change in corporations and organizations. For decades, AC was run like the government monopoly it was. That culture of entitlement ran deep in the airline. Its certainly better than it once was, but WestJet still beats them hands down on service.
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
March 5th, 2006, 06:23 PM
It really does, I've heard very little bad about West Jet and a whole whack of bad about Air Canada. Mind you, I'd rather not fly either of them. If you're going to fly, flying it yourself is the only way (I don't have my license, but it sure seems the safest way of being in the sky).
It really does, I've heard very little bad about West Jet and a whole whack of bad about Air Canada. Mind you, I'd rather not fly either of them. If you're going to fly, flying it yourself is the only way (I don't have my license, but it sure seems the safest way of being in the sky).
Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
April 20th, 2006, 07:19 PM
Here is another example of the rules at work. Next time you get on an AC flight, have a flight attendant help you put your carry-on into the overhead bin (make sure it looks heavy!). Chances are, they will decline. Why? Because the company forbids this due to the risk of back injury from overweight luggage. Same with baggage handlers... your suitcase needs to be under a certain weight limit because the baggage handlers can only lift so much. Don't laugh, it is real and happens more often than you think. The customers (esp. on international flights) load up on the crap that they want to bring home to the point where they cannot even lift the luggage into the overhead bins themselves.. let alone a flight attendant doing it. Also, just imagine for a minute that you bring a priceless object in your carry on. A flight attendant, being so nice and all, offers to put it in the overhead bin for you. You don't object and they end up dropping it and smashing your priceless object. What are you going to do?
This reminds me of that hockey commercial where the guy is carrying some kind of trophy and stuffs it into the overhead bin and it ends up falling on his head... LMAO. But, seriously, stuff like that costs the airline money.
As for Westjet, their flight attendants may help your with your carry-on, but I suspect as more and more injuries occur, a similar rule to AC will come into effect... not because the company wants it, but probably because WCB wants it. It's only a matter of time.
Air Canada sucks because its' been around for a long time and has built rules for almost everything. WestJet, on the other hand, has only been around for 10 years...
I'm not defending Air Canada. I'm just looking at it from their point of view.
Quoting
I understand your frustration. However, the rules are there for a reason. Any carrier will have it's share of problems regarding rules or lack of. The fact that AC is unionized further complicates matters as it is far more difficult to discipline (read: fire) employees because of complicated processes established betwen the union and the company... and the employees know that. Which is why you are getting attitude when dealing with these people.
I have to agree with the "Air Canada Sucks" comment. I fly several times a week. Few carriers can claim good service these days, but the attitude at Air Canada is consistently "you can't do that and here's our rule that says why" At WestJet, the attitude is "let's see if there's a good way to do that.." Recent example - Air Canada - at check-in - "sure, you can stand by for the earlier flight if you can get to the gate in time" - Air Canada at the gate " they shouldn't have told you that at check-in - If you want to stand by you have to go back to check in (outside security and US Immigration) and pay an extra $25." "Can I pay it here?" "no" Can I get your name? "no" Would you please call a supervisor? "no" - I walked over to Westjet and asked - Can I buy a ticket on this flight that's leaving in 20 minutes? - "Sure - let me figure this out and we'll get you on"
Here is another example of the rules at work. Next time you get on an AC flight, have a flight attendant help you put your carry-on into the overhead bin (make sure it looks heavy!). Chances are, they will decline. Why? Because the company forbids this due to the risk of back injury from overweight luggage. Same with baggage handlers... your suitcase needs to be under a certain weight limit because the baggage handlers can only lift so much. Don't laugh, it is real and happens more often than you think. The customers (esp. on international flights) load up on the crap that they want to bring home to the point where they cannot even lift the luggage into the overhead bins themselves.. let alone a flight attendant doing it. Also, just imagine for a minute that you bring a priceless object in your carry on. A flight attendant, being so nice and all, offers to put it in the overhead bin for you. You don't object and they end up dropping it and smashing your priceless object. What are you going to do?
This reminds me of that hockey commercial where the guy is carrying some kind of trophy and stuffs it into the overhead bin and it ends up falling on his head... LMAO. But, seriously, stuff like that costs the airline money.
As for Westjet, their flight attendants may help your with your carry-on, but I suspect as more and more injuries occur, a similar rule to AC will come into effect... not because the company wants it, but probably because WCB wants it. It's only a matter of time.
Air Canada sucks because its' been around for a long time and has built rules for almost everything. WestJet, on the other hand, has only been around for 10 years...
I'm not defending Air Canada. I'm just looking at it from their point of view.
Newbie
Posts: 2
April 21st, 2006, 06:53 AM
I agree completely with you - However, the fact that they have these rules doesn't excuse incompetence. If they all know the rules and followed them, I wouldn't have been given different information by different agents. And, if they were interested at all in their customers (an attitude that is independant of the rules situation) they would have looked for resolution rather than an excuse to avoid doing work.
Eventually, when keeping employees happy becomes more important than keeping customers happy, Air Canada will end up like United, Delta and USAirways - losing major market share to the likes of Southwest, Airtran and JetBlue. They all seem to have happy employees and happy customers, along with plenty of rules that don't keep their employees from helping customers.
I agree completely with you - However, the fact that they have these rules doesn't excuse incompetence. If they all know the rules and followed them, I wouldn't have been given different information by different agents. And, if they were interested at all in their customers (an attitude that is independant of the rules situation) they would have looked for resolution rather than an excuse to avoid doing work.
Eventually, when keeping employees happy becomes more important than keeping customers happy, Air Canada will end up like United, Delta and USAirways - losing major market share to the likes of Southwest, Airtran and JetBlue. They all seem to have happy employees and happy customers, along with plenty of rules that don't keep their employees from helping customers.
Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
April 21st, 2006, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I can understand that Westjet employees are generally happier because they don't have to put up with the issues between union and company. For some reason, out of all the people I've known that worked at companies with unions (including myself), the general propoganda that the employees are exposed to relate to union vs. company and that the company is evil and that the union is fighting for your rights. While this may be true, it fosters a negative attitude towards the company... which, of course, also affects employee attitude.
For example, a friend of mine showed me a union newsletter at a time when AC was going through bankrupcy protection. One of the top headlines was that good ol' Milton (the CEO of AC) gave himself a fat bonus while the employees were forced to give concessions varying from reduced wages to reduced vacation time. How true this is I have no idea. But read here:
http://www.caw.ca/news/videonews/archives/ac_ripoff.asp
In any event, news like this only widens the divide between company and employee. Hence your negative attitude.. employees don't give a damn anymore.
Also remember that AC acquired Canadian Airlines some time back. Both airlines have unions for pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc. How does one go about joining these unions when seniority plays such a big role in a union? Who gets seniority over the other? Issues like these also create negative attitude because more likely than not, some employees will get the short end of the stick.
I'm not trying to justify the poor attitude from AC employees, it's just that from their perspective, things are pretty crappy... Everything revolves around the greed for money.
Yeah, I can understand that Westjet employees are generally happier because they don't have to put up with the issues between union and company. For some reason, out of all the people I've known that worked at companies with unions (including myself), the general propoganda that the employees are exposed to relate to union vs. company and that the company is evil and that the union is fighting for your rights. While this may be true, it fosters a negative attitude towards the company... which, of course, also affects employee attitude.
For example, a friend of mine showed me a union newsletter at a time when AC was going through bankrupcy protection. One of the top headlines was that good ol' Milton (the CEO of AC) gave himself a fat bonus while the employees were forced to give concessions varying from reduced wages to reduced vacation time. How true this is I have no idea. But read here:
http://www.caw.ca/news/videonews/archives/ac_ripoff.asp
In any event, news like this only widens the divide between company and employee. Hence your negative attitude.. employees don't give a damn anymore.
Also remember that AC acquired Canadian Airlines some time back. Both airlines have unions for pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc. How does one go about joining these unions when seniority plays such a big role in a union? Who gets seniority over the other? Issues like these also create negative attitude because more likely than not, some employees will get the short end of the stick.
I'm not trying to justify the poor attitude from AC employees, it's just that from their perspective, things are pretty crappy... Everything revolves around the greed for money.
Bright Spark
Posts: 273
Videos: 3
Location: Ontario
Videos: 3
Location: Ontario
April 21st, 2006, 02:25 PM
I have family who work in the Airline Industry and most regard Air Canada as a bit of a corporate Welfare abuser. They have been baled out on numerous occasions while working overtime to destroy their competitors on our dime.
M
I have family who work in the Airline Industry and most regard Air Canada as a bit of a corporate Welfare abuser. They have been baled out on numerous occasions while working overtime to destroy their competitors on our dime.
M
