Member
Posts: 242 
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
May 11th, 2005, 12:03 PM
hmmm... where to begin.
Let me just say that I have a negative view of Midas.
Anyone seen those Midas commercials with the lie detectors? Everytime I see those ads it really gets me fired up. I not saying that the people working at Midas brake centres are liars, in fact, they are a nice group of people, but I have a theory on the way the company conducts its business.
At the time when I was driving my first car, I took it to Midas to get the front brakes done. The original brakes lasted about 2 years or about 60000kms and started to squeal. They changed the pads and resurfaced the rotors. I thought they did a good job. Then, after about 3 months of driving, I noticed that everytime I braked, the steering wheel would vibrate/pulsate a little when braking from 80kmh. Hmm... I didn't really bothered to look into it as I traded the car in and got a new car.
Then when my second car needed the brakes changed, I took it to Midas again for the front brakes. They did their normal procedures for changing the front brakes (same as first car). Again, after about 3-4 months the steering wheel started to vibrate when braking from high-speed. At the time, I didn't make any connections between Midas and vibrating steering wheel because I wasn't really sure what it was.
My third car was pretty much the same scenario as the second car. Only this time, I took the car in again to fix the vibration. Turned out it was warped rotors. Now I'm getting suspicious. So I did some research on the Internet on this warped rotor issue.
I found that the during repeated braking attempts, the pads heat up which could lead to warped rotors. When the rotors warp, you feel a vibration in the steering wheel. That's strange, I thought, I drove my car on the original set of pads til 100,000kms and felt no vibration. Then, on Midas pads, I get vibration only after 3-4 months? After further research, I found that not all brake pads are made the same. Certain pads, especially the cheaper ones, build up heat quicker and also heats to a higher temp... the rotors, not being able to dissipate the heat quick enough, will warp. Rotors warp because of uneven cooling. This could happen when you park after doing some heavy braking. Right after you park, the brake pads will still be hot, some of this heat is transferred to the part of the rotor that is closest to the pads, the remaining parts of the rotor (that part that you can see and is exposed to cool ambient air) will then cool faster than the parts closest to the pads... uneven cooling. Could happen when you're stuck in traffic jams, traffic lights, etc.
Also, when you resurface rotors, you are making them thinner, which may also increase chances of warpage. I'm not saying that heat is the only reason that causes rotor warpage, there are other factors such as unevent torquing of the lug nuts etc... But the chances that heat warping rotors vs. improper torquing of lug nuts is much greater.
Then I remember one of my co-workers who also changed their front brakes at Midas and also experienced warped rotors. Now I have a theory in my head.
My theory is that Midas puts cheap brake pads on your car knowing that it will warp your rotors and bet on the chance that you will bring it back to fix it again and take more money from you. Decent rotors are expensive and labour is expensive and Midas will make you pay for it. Unsuspecting or naive victims, like myself, will get ripped from scams like this.
Even though the people working at Midas have generally good intentions, everytime I see these stupid lie detector commercials, it gets me fired up because Midas, the company, is hiding something from you.
Ever since I started to change my own brakes, I've never experienced any rotor warpage on my front and rear disc brakes. I attribute this to the fact that I went back to the dealership to get the pads.
Any thoughts?
hmmm... where to begin.
Let me just say that I have a negative view of Midas.
Anyone seen those Midas commercials with the lie detectors? Everytime I see those ads it really gets me fired up. I not saying that the people working at Midas brake centres are liars, in fact, they are a nice group of people, but I have a theory on the way the company conducts its business.
At the time when I was driving my first car, I took it to Midas to get the front brakes done. The original brakes lasted about 2 years or about 60000kms and started to squeal. They changed the pads and resurfaced the rotors. I thought they did a good job. Then, after about 3 months of driving, I noticed that everytime I braked, the steering wheel would vibrate/pulsate a little when braking from 80kmh. Hmm... I didn't really bothered to look into it as I traded the car in and got a new car.
Then when my second car needed the brakes changed, I took it to Midas again for the front brakes. They did their normal procedures for changing the front brakes (same as first car). Again, after about 3-4 months the steering wheel started to vibrate when braking from high-speed. At the time, I didn't make any connections between Midas and vibrating steering wheel because I wasn't really sure what it was.
My third car was pretty much the same scenario as the second car. Only this time, I took the car in again to fix the vibration. Turned out it was warped rotors. Now I'm getting suspicious. So I did some research on the Internet on this warped rotor issue.
I found that the during repeated braking attempts, the pads heat up which could lead to warped rotors. When the rotors warp, you feel a vibration in the steering wheel. That's strange, I thought, I drove my car on the original set of pads til 100,000kms and felt no vibration. Then, on Midas pads, I get vibration only after 3-4 months? After further research, I found that not all brake pads are made the same. Certain pads, especially the cheaper ones, build up heat quicker and also heats to a higher temp... the rotors, not being able to dissipate the heat quick enough, will warp. Rotors warp because of uneven cooling. This could happen when you park after doing some heavy braking. Right after you park, the brake pads will still be hot, some of this heat is transferred to the part of the rotor that is closest to the pads, the remaining parts of the rotor (that part that you can see and is exposed to cool ambient air) will then cool faster than the parts closest to the pads... uneven cooling. Could happen when you're stuck in traffic jams, traffic lights, etc.
Also, when you resurface rotors, you are making them thinner, which may also increase chances of warpage. I'm not saying that heat is the only reason that causes rotor warpage, there are other factors such as unevent torquing of the lug nuts etc... But the chances that heat warping rotors vs. improper torquing of lug nuts is much greater.
Then I remember one of my co-workers who also changed their front brakes at Midas and also experienced warped rotors. Now I have a theory in my head.
My theory is that Midas puts cheap brake pads on your car knowing that it will warp your rotors and bet on the chance that you will bring it back to fix it again and take more money from you. Decent rotors are expensive and labour is expensive and Midas will make you pay for it. Unsuspecting or naive victims, like myself, will get ripped from scams like this.
Even though the people working at Midas have generally good intentions, everytime I see these stupid lie detector commercials, it gets me fired up because Midas, the company, is hiding something from you.
Ever since I started to change my own brakes, I've never experienced any rotor warpage on my front and rear disc brakes. I attribute this to the fact that I went back to the dealership to get the pads.
Any thoughts?
Bright Spark
Posts: 254
Location: In a Tunisian Prison awaiting extra
Location: In a Tunisian Prison awaiting extra
May 11th, 2005, 07:45 PM
I worked in the car parts business for a few years and we sold, smong othet things, break pads and rotors. The aftermarket brands on both these items do not meet OEM specs. If you don't get the parts replaced by a dealer then they are probably aftermarket parts and will not hold up. Consumer beware!
I worked in the car parts business for a few years and we sold, smong othet things, break pads and rotors. The aftermarket brands on both these items do not meet OEM specs. If you don't get the parts replaced by a dealer then they are probably aftermarket parts and will not hold up. Consumer beware!
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
May 11th, 2005, 08:26 PM
You don't have to get them at a dealer, but it's a good idea to get them at someplace reputable. We still have a couple of privately owned shop here in town. They'll sell you the cheap ones if you want (like if you are trying to get a few more miles out of a beater) but they carry the good ones too.
You don't have to get them at a dealer, but it's a good idea to get them at someplace reputable. We still have a couple of privately owned shop here in town. They'll sell you the cheap ones if you want (like if you are trying to get a few more miles out of a beater) but they carry the good ones too.
Don't bother arguing, I KNOW!
Posts: 10,485 
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
May 11th, 2005, 09:50 PM
"In fact, we guarantee* all our work. And, we're known for our lifetime-guaranteed brakes, mufflers and shocks and struts. Our lifetime guarantee is valid for as long as you own your car." - Midas
Quoting
Midas Warranty Canada Quoting
that's exactly what i have in mind. normally those things come with a warranty, maybe you can check for that ?
Is there no warranty? You can't take it back so they can repair it free of charge?
"In fact, we guarantee* all our work. And, we're known for our lifetime-guaranteed brakes, mufflers and shocks and struts. Our lifetime guarantee is valid for as long as you own your car." - Midas
Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
May 12th, 2005, 02:20 PM
The bottom line is, because the rotors are not their parts... it's not under their warranty. However, if you decide to replace your rotors with their rotors, they *may* resurface the rotors for free, but then you have to buy their parts again. See what I mean? (I'm not willing to spend that much money to find out... after all, I do my own work now)
It also depends on who you talk to. On my last car, they played the *normal wear and tear* game so I had to pay to get the rotors resurfaced. If they warped within 10 days I would expect them to do it for free (at least I would have argued for it) but 3-4 months is a long time and there are many factors which affect brakes; Two of which are environmental conditions and driving habits...
Aside from workmanship, only their brakes pads are guaranteed which means that if they are worn, they will replace it for free. However, they don't mention rotors so even if you buy their specific rotors, and keep going in to get it resurfaced, eventually, you will need to replace it (because it will become too thin) and they will charge you for it.
Personally, I find it very hard to blame workmanship or very hard to prove that the problem was due to poor workmanship. Unless it was totally obvious like they forgot to put a bolt back on or they didn't tighten something and the bolt fell off... in which case, you might not be alive to blame them anyway
But if they did everything by the book and if you bring your car back complaining about your brakes after 3-4 months, it's usually the malfunctioning part that gets the blame.... especially if it's an expensive part. And if you didn't buy the parts from them, guess what? I hear the sound of the cash register opening 
Quoting
"In fact, we guarantee* all our work. And, we're known for our lifetime-guaranteed brakes, mufflers and shocks and struts. Our lifetime guarantee is valid for as long as you own your car." - Midas
I read that guarantee... and it is vague. When they refer to "brakes" what do they mean? Pads? Rotors? Calipers? "In fact, we guarantee* all our work. And, we're known for our lifetime-guaranteed brakes, mufflers and shocks and struts. Our lifetime guarantee is valid for as long as you own your car." - Midas
The bottom line is, because the rotors are not their parts... it's not under their warranty. However, if you decide to replace your rotors with their rotors, they *may* resurface the rotors for free, but then you have to buy their parts again. See what I mean? (I'm not willing to spend that much money to find out... after all, I do my own work now)
It also depends on who you talk to. On my last car, they played the *normal wear and tear* game so I had to pay to get the rotors resurfaced. If they warped within 10 days I would expect them to do it for free (at least I would have argued for it) but 3-4 months is a long time and there are many factors which affect brakes; Two of which are environmental conditions and driving habits...
Aside from workmanship, only their brakes pads are guaranteed which means that if they are worn, they will replace it for free. However, they don't mention rotors so even if you buy their specific rotors, and keep going in to get it resurfaced, eventually, you will need to replace it (because it will become too thin) and they will charge you for it.
Personally, I find it very hard to blame workmanship or very hard to prove that the problem was due to poor workmanship. Unless it was totally obvious like they forgot to put a bolt back on or they didn't tighten something and the bolt fell off... in which case, you might not be alive to blame them anyway
But if they did everything by the book and if you bring your car back complaining about your brakes after 3-4 months, it's usually the malfunctioning part that gets the blame.... especially if it's an expensive part. And if you didn't buy the parts from them, guess what? I hear the sound of the cash register opening Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
May 12th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Actually, when I reviewed my above post, I found that what I said was more or less speculation. So I decided to phone up Midas to get the scoop.
Here's what they said:
Question: What do you mean when it (the website) says lifetime-guaranteed brakes?
Answer: It means that the brake pads or shoes are guaranteed for as long as you own your car. This means that if the pads or shoes were worn during the lifetime of the car we will replace them for free... but you still have to pay for labour.
Question: what about rotors, calipers, etc. ?
Answer: No. We only guarantee the pads or shoes.
Question: what about if I decided to have my brakes done by you and later the rotor gets warped?
Answer: There's no gaurantee on the rotor, so you would have to pay for any parts and labour.
Question: What if I replace my rotor with your parts and it gets warped?
Answer: The rotor is only guaranteed for 90 days.
So there you have it.
Actually, when I reviewed my above post, I found that what I said was more or less speculation. So I decided to phone up Midas to get the scoop.
Here's what they said:
Question: What do you mean when it (the website) says lifetime-guaranteed brakes?
Answer: It means that the brake pads or shoes are guaranteed for as long as you own your car. This means that if the pads or shoes were worn during the lifetime of the car we will replace them for free... but you still have to pay for labour.
Question: what about rotors, calipers, etc. ?
Answer: No. We only guarantee the pads or shoes.
Question: what about if I decided to have my brakes done by you and later the rotor gets warped?
Answer: There's no gaurantee on the rotor, so you would have to pay for any parts and labour.
Question: What if I replace my rotor with your parts and it gets warped?
Answer: The rotor is only guaranteed for 90 days.
So there you have it.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
May 12th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Not true, I think not. I know many good, honest mechanics who work for honest bosses.
There are those that are far less than reputable and those that aren't competent as well.
The problem is that most people don't take the time to learn anything about their cars and never take the time to build a relationship with a particular shop. That leaves them at the mercy of strangers. That is exacerbated by everybody trying to get a deal...they want the cheapest parts, the cheapest labour, and they want it all backed up by a lifetime warranty.
You might as well write "RUBE" on your forehead at that point because chances are that somebody is going to take you for a ride.
Not true, I think not. I know many good, honest mechanics who work for honest bosses.
There are those that are far less than reputable and those that aren't competent as well.
The problem is that most people don't take the time to learn anything about their cars and never take the time to build a relationship with a particular shop. That leaves them at the mercy of strangers. That is exacerbated by everybody trying to get a deal...they want the cheapest parts, the cheapest labour, and they want it all backed up by a lifetime warranty.
You might as well write "RUBE" on your forehead at that point because chances are that somebody is going to take you for a ride.
Don't bother arguing, I KNOW!
Posts: 10,485
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
May 12th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I agree with you. Small shops if you take the time to create a relationship, you stand a better chance at getting what you pay for.
Midas to my knowledge is a franchise, not a chain. It stands to reason you may be able to create a relationship with one of those also (maybe)
I was never good with cars however. All I can do is fill it up, change the oil and replenish fluids. Other than that. I'm done.
I agree with you. Small shops if you take the time to create a relationship, you stand a better chance at getting what you pay for.
Midas to my knowledge is a franchise, not a chain. It stands to reason you may be able to create a relationship with one of those also (maybe)
I was never good with cars however. All I can do is fill it up, change the oil and replenish fluids. Other than that. I'm done.
Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
May 12th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Anyway, I just wish I knew this before going through this whole fiasco with Midas.
Quoting
I was never good with cars however. All I can do is fill it up, change the oil and replenish fluids. Other than that. I'm done.
Hey, I think not, I was in the same situation once, but you'd be surprised on what you can find on the Internet! I don't know what kind of car you drive, but if it's a Japanese import, chances are you will find a forum somewhere dedicated to it. If you're lucky enough, you will even find FAQ's on nearly everything to do with your car... with pictures! If you've got a question or problem with your car, it's probably been answered already by somebody else. I've even found some "clubs" that meet on a regular basis to compare and appreciate each others cars. That's a bit too much for me, though I was never good with cars however. All I can do is fill it up, change the oil and replenish fluids. Other than that. I'm done.
Anyway, I just wish I knew this before going through this whole fiasco with Midas.
It means you're a SUCKER!!! Bright Spark
Posts: 254
Location: In a Tunisian Prison awaiting extra
Location: In a Tunisian Prison awaiting extra
May 12th, 2005, 08:40 PM
I worked for an auto dealership and for a parts wholesaler at different times. The dealer parts are always more expensive. For example, a headlight for a Mercedes would cost $120.00 whereas a headlight for a VW would be $45.00. They are the same part from the same manufacturer but the box is different!
I worked for an auto dealership and for a parts wholesaler at different times. The dealer parts are always more expensive. For example, a headlight for a Mercedes would cost $120.00 whereas a headlight for a VW would be $45.00. They are the same part from the same manufacturer but the box is different!
Member
Posts: 242
Location: Vancouver
Location: Vancouver
May 13th, 2005, 11:29 AM
You mean Mercedes and VW share the same parts? I didn't know that.
Interesting though.
Quoting
huh?
I worked for an auto dealership and for a parts wholesaler at different times. The dealer parts are always more expensive. For example, a headlight for a Mercedes would cost $120.00 whereas a headlight for a VW would be $45.00. They are the same part from the same manufacturer but the box is different!
You mean Mercedes and VW share the same parts? I didn't know that. Interesting though.
