Member
Posts: 179 
January 24th, 2006, 08:44 AM
Cosmo - I disagree. What would you be saying if such comments were coming from the Conservative side if the Liberals had pulled off a surprising minority last night?
You people don't even give the other side the benefit of the doubt. I sense that many of you dislike Harper just because he's a Christian who's personal beliefs you dislike, in spite of the fact that he probably won't push them into law (how could he even if he wanted to, with these numbers?). Nonetheless, perhaps now you know how conservative Canadians felt when Paul Martin was constantly condemning their values, and even calling them "unCanadian".
Cosmo - I disagree. What would you be saying if such comments were coming from the Conservative side if the Liberals had pulled off a surprising minority last night?
You people don't even give the other side the benefit of the doubt. I sense that many of you dislike Harper just because he's a Christian who's personal beliefs you dislike, in spite of the fact that he probably won't push them into law (how could he even if he wanted to, with these numbers?). Nonetheless, perhaps now you know how conservative Canadians felt when Paul Martin was constantly condemning their values, and even calling them "unCanadian".
Member
Posts: 179
January 24th, 2006, 08:46 AM
Speaking personally, I don't mind a Canadian political leader disagreeing with my (or my close family member's) personal beliefs as long as he doesn't shove it in my face... like Paul "your values are unCanadian!" Martin did.
Say what you will about Harper, but at least he reaches out to those who disagree with him (just look at his speech last night, when he even spoke warmly to those who didn't vote for his party).
Speaking personally, I don't mind a Canadian political leader disagreeing with my (or my close family member's) personal beliefs as long as he doesn't shove it in my face... like Paul "your values are unCanadian!" Martin did.
Say what you will about Harper, but at least he reaches out to those who disagree with him (just look at his speech last night, when he even spoke warmly to those who didn't vote for his party).
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
January 24th, 2006, 09:29 AM
I have to say that I'm rather pleased that it's a minority government yet again. It wouldn't have mattered to me if Harper or Martin had won...
In many ways (despite not being a Harper supporter in any sense) I have to respect Harpers win. The Liberals were mired in scandal and the party is falling apart from in-fighting.... At least with Harper we've got a good idea of what we're getting into, Martin is really not much different from Harper although he sure does go to lenghts to sound that way during an election campaign.
I do have to agree with Caracal Kid though in many ways, this government does not represent me.... but truthfully I'm not a big government supporter in any way, so I don't suppose that I would feel most any government represented me.
But more importantly it is a fair statement to say that this system doesn't work (and yes I would be saying that even if the Liberals had won), we are in a dubious democracy still using the archaic first-past-the-post system. The Green Party has increased it's vote yet again, and will not have a seat. I'm sure Fair Vote Canada will release it's dubious democracy report in the next few days on this election, but here are a few highlights from this election and the reasons why I will mainatain that this system does not work and is not representative:
I have to say that I'm rather pleased that it's a minority government yet again. It wouldn't have mattered to me if Harper or Martin had won...
In many ways (despite not being a Harper supporter in any sense) I have to respect Harpers win. The Liberals were mired in scandal and the party is falling apart from in-fighting.... At least with Harper we've got a good idea of what we're getting into, Martin is really not much different from Harper although he sure does go to lenghts to sound that way during an election campaign.
I do have to agree with Caracal Kid though in many ways, this government does not represent me.... but truthfully I'm not a big government supporter in any way, so I don't suppose that I would feel most any government represented me.
But more importantly it is a fair statement to say that this system doesn't work (and yes I would be saying that even if the Liberals had won), we are in a dubious democracy still using the archaic first-past-the-post system. The Green Party has increased it's vote yet again, and will not have a seat. I'm sure Fair Vote Canada will release it's dubious democracy report in the next few days on this election, but here are a few highlights from this election and the reasons why I will mainatain that this system does not work and is not representative:
Quote:
www.fairvote.ca check out the Dubious Democracy Report under Publications.
The chief victims of the January 23 federal election were:
Western Liberals: In the prairie provinces, Conservatives got three times as many votes as Liberals did, but won nearly ten times as many seats. In Alberta, the Conservative Party won 100% of the seats with 65% of the votes. The 500,000 Albertans who voted otherwise elected no one.
Urban Conservatives: The 400,000-plus Conservative voters in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver should have been able to elect about nine MPs, but instead elected no one. The three cities together will not have a single MP in the governing caucus, let alone the cabinet.
New Democrats: The NDP attracted a million more votes than the Bloc, but the voting system gave the Bloc 51 seats, the NDP 29. Nearly 18% of Canadians voted NDP, but the party won less than 10% of the seats and does not hold the balance of power, unlike the Liberals and the Bloc.
Green Party: More than 650,000 Green Party voters across the country elected no one, while 475,000 Liberal voters in Atlantic Canada elected 20 MPs.
Western Liberals: In the prairie provinces, Conservatives got three times as many votes as Liberals did, but won nearly ten times as many seats. In Alberta, the Conservative Party won 100% of the seats with 65% of the votes. The 500,000 Albertans who voted otherwise elected no one.
Urban Conservatives: The 400,000-plus Conservative voters in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver should have been able to elect about nine MPs, but instead elected no one. The three cities together will not have a single MP in the governing caucus, let alone the cabinet.
New Democrats: The NDP attracted a million more votes than the Bloc, but the voting system gave the Bloc 51 seats, the NDP 29. Nearly 18% of Canadians voted NDP, but the party won less than 10% of the seats and does not hold the balance of power, unlike the Liberals and the Bloc.
Green Party: More than 650,000 Green Party voters across the country elected no one, while 475,000 Liberal voters in Atlantic Canada elected 20 MPs.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,859 
Location: Victoria, BC
Location: Victoria, BC
January 24th, 2006, 10:10 AM
I'm not pleased having Harper in, but neither am I rolling around in agony. In fact I spent part of my morning emailing my right leaning friends with congrats. I'm a dyke ... of course I'm a left leaning sort. But to be honest ... I'm just glad it's all over and we can get around to talking about something else for a change.
If you were referring to my comments to TenPenny, he is cranky. *shrug* I calls 'em as I sees 'em, no politics involved.
Quoting
Trile_R ... seems you're confusing me with someone who holds seriously devisive opinions about political leanings. I'd say the same no matter who won the election. If you think I haven't heard plenty of right leaning comments, you are mistaken. I also belong to a right leaning forum. Granted, I see myself as a guest there, but the difference in political opinion isn't enough to stop me from evaluating each person on their own merit.
Cosmo - I disagree. What would you be saying if such comments were coming from the Conservative side if the Liberals had pulled off a surprising minority last night?
You people don't even give the other side the benefit of the doubt. I sense that many of you dislike Harper just because he's a Christian who's personal beliefs you dislike, in spite of the fact that he probably won't push them into law (how could he even if he wanted to, with these numbers?). Nonetheless, perhaps now you know how conservative Canadians felt when Paul Martin was constantly condemning their values, and even calling them "unCanadian".
You people don't even give the other side the benefit of the doubt. I sense that many of you dislike Harper just because he's a Christian who's personal beliefs you dislike, in spite of the fact that he probably won't push them into law (how could he even if he wanted to, with these numbers?). Nonetheless, perhaps now you know how conservative Canadians felt when Paul Martin was constantly condemning their values, and even calling them "unCanadian".
I'm not pleased having Harper in, but neither am I rolling around in agony. In fact I spent part of my morning emailing my right leaning friends with congrats. I'm a dyke ... of course I'm a left leaning sort. But to be honest ... I'm just glad it's all over and we can get around to talking about something else for a change.
If you were referring to my comments to TenPenny, he is cranky. *shrug* I calls 'em as I sees 'em, no politics involved.
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
January 24th, 2006, 10:46 AM
"You're claiming the system doesn't work? I think what you mean is that the system didn't give the results YOU wanted."
Your right. The result i want is for people to represented the way they voted. I would like to see the PM directly elected. I would be saying the same thing of the results no matter which leader formed the government because none of the three that could DO represent me.
It is pretty simple, if the system does not work - fix it. But the system won't fix itself. Politicians as a part of the system will not produce the needed changes to create a functional truly representative system. Thats life. And you are correct, I don't have faith in the average canadian to make a decision because they overwhelmingly demonstrate themselves to be nothing more than trained animals "doing their part" in the "pick your dictator game".
"You're claiming the system doesn't work? I think what you mean is that the system didn't give the results YOU wanted."
Your right. The result i want is for people to represented the way they voted. I would like to see the PM directly elected. I would be saying the same thing of the results no matter which leader formed the government because none of the three that could DO represent me.
It is pretty simple, if the system does not work - fix it. But the system won't fix itself. Politicians as a part of the system will not produce the needed changes to create a functional truly representative system. Thats life. And you are correct, I don't have faith in the average canadian to make a decision because they overwhelmingly demonstrate themselves to be nothing more than trained animals "doing their part" in the "pick your dictator game".
Newbie
Posts: 22
Location: Waterloo, ON
Location: Waterloo, ON
January 24th, 2006, 08:58 PM
I won't make judgements when Mr. Harper hasn't shown us what he's going to achieve yet. I voted Conservative because I'm a small-c conservative and I didn't want the Liberals to win. However, I'm not exactly a big Conservative Party fan, mostly because of their position on the so-called "War on Terror" among other things. Time will only tell!
I won't make judgements when Mr. Harper hasn't shown us what he's going to achieve yet. I voted Conservative because I'm a small-c conservative and I didn't want the Liberals to win. However, I'm not exactly a big Conservative Party fan, mostly because of their position on the so-called "War on Terror" among other things. Time will only tell!
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
July 6th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Harper to the Fore....
You mean Stephen Harper the maggot who's "plan" included putting Canfor's American representative in charge of the softwood lumber dispute??
Well it's worked....the message has been sent loud and clear.
YOU CAN STEAL FROM CANADA ANYTIME YOU LIKE AND A HARPER GOVERNMENT WILL BEND OVER AND LET YOU!
Everyone cheer for NAFTA's dispute resolution process...
Refdefined by the maggot of course to mean that whatever his big business buddies want...even when that includes stealing from Canada ...is perfectly OK.
Gezus Canadians are STUPID!
Harper to the Fore....
You mean Stephen Harper the maggot who's "plan" included putting Canfor's American representative in charge of the softwood lumber dispute??
Well it's worked....the message has been sent loud and clear.
YOU CAN STEAL FROM CANADA ANYTIME YOU LIKE AND A HARPER GOVERNMENT WILL BEND OVER AND LET YOU!
Everyone cheer for NAFTA's dispute resolution process...
Refdefined by the maggot of course to mean that whatever his big business buddies want...even when that includes stealing from Canada ...is perfectly OK.
Gezus Canadians are STUPID!
Executive Member
Posts: 9,222
July 6th, 2006, 11:12 AM
Quote:
I think the Conservatives have to take some responsibility for the deficit. Their own Brian Mulroney racked up a forty or fifty billion dollar deficit every year of the nine years he was in power. Trudeau didn't hold a gun to his head. Kim Cambell handed Chretien another forty two billion dollar deficit. Chretien was not my favorite politician but he eventually balanced the budget and paid down some of the debt. It remains to be seen what Harper does.
You were a Trudeau liberal and yet you worry about the cons putting us in the red? We have Mr.Trudeau to thank for the deficit in the first place.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,232
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
July 6th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Quoting
Not stupid enough to vote for the Liberals.....again, nor to vote for the NDP.....ever!
Harper to the Fore....
You mean Stephen Harper the maggot who's "plan" included putting Canfor's American representative in charge of the softwood lumber dispute??
Well it's worked....the message has been sent loud and clear.
YOU CAN STEAL FROM CANADA ANYTIME YOU LIKE AND A HARPER GOVERNMENT WILL BEND OVER AND LET YOU!
Everyone cheer for NAFTA's dispute resolution process...
Refdefined by the maggot of course to mean that whatever his big business buddies want...even when that includes stealing from Canada ...is perfectly OK.
Gezus Canadians are STUPID!
You mean Stephen Harper the maggot who's "plan" included putting Canfor's American representative in charge of the softwood lumber dispute??
Well it's worked....the message has been sent loud and clear.
YOU CAN STEAL FROM CANADA ANYTIME YOU LIKE AND A HARPER GOVERNMENT WILL BEND OVER AND LET YOU!
Everyone cheer for NAFTA's dispute resolution process...
Refdefined by the maggot of course to mean that whatever his big business buddies want...even when that includes stealing from Canada ...is perfectly OK.
Gezus Canadians are STUPID!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 526
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
July 26th, 2006, 08:54 PM
voting directly for the PM isn't a fix all...Look at the US. As long as democracy is representative it's going to be the same. you can only vote for who is running. or allowed to run. Voting and being able to throw the bums out is the point. That's why the liberals are out now. Later, we'll throw the conservatives out. Always voting along party lines is senseless.
voting directly for the PM isn't a fix all...Look at the US. As long as democracy is representative it's going to be the same. you can only vote for who is running. or allowed to run. Voting and being able to throw the bums out is the point. That's why the liberals are out now. Later, we'll throw the conservatives out. Always voting along party lines is senseless.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
July 27th, 2006, 04:37 PM
I artthereforeIam
In “democracies” elections are decided by counting the number of votes some asshole has received from the ignoramuses who believe they’re actually involved in a “participatory democracy”….
Sterling confidence men like Harper who then reneges on their election promises of “integrity and honesty in government” and appoints the Canfor rep to a seat in government…despite the fact that this same jerk campaigned against the elected party….
Ah well who really gives a **** anyway.
I’m having difficulty I suppose shedding those mythical notions like honesty and justice…when a simple examination of the world around us provides more than a satisfactory amount of evidence that our system just like the American is corrupt from top to bottom. Corrupt because that’s the caliber of people who end up getting elected and running the show.
And corrupt because that’s the system this nations people prefer.
I artthereforeIam
In “democracies” elections are decided by counting the number of votes some asshole has received from the ignoramuses who believe they’re actually involved in a “participatory democracy”….
Sterling confidence men like Harper who then reneges on their election promises of “integrity and honesty in government” and appoints the Canfor rep to a seat in government…despite the fact that this same jerk campaigned against the elected party….
Ah well who really gives a **** anyway.
I’m having difficulty I suppose shedding those mythical notions like honesty and justice…when a simple examination of the world around us provides more than a satisfactory amount of evidence that our system just like the American is corrupt from top to bottom. Corrupt because that’s the caliber of people who end up getting elected and running the show.
And corrupt because that’s the system this nations people prefer.
