I am amazed by the left on this board.

[Triple_R]

Far and away the most hatred I've seen on this board is from leftists to Stephen Harper. I read the words of the left, and it's like reading wild-eyed, sleep-deprived, diatribes screaming "The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!" or some such nonsense.

I have seen nonsensical wild innuendo that would make tabloid's blush. I have seen the most outlandish, and rediculious, criticisms, and insults, and outright demonization, imaginable. You people really do believe each and every one of those 12 Liberal attack ads, don't you? You people really do believe that Stephen Harper is some sort of scary boogey man here to bring, I suppose, a fasicst military-supported theocracy into Canada.

The most laughable is the argument that the rest of Canada wouldn't want to be like Alberta. Good grief... have you completely lost sense of reality? The Alberta economy is absolutely booming. It actually has fewer workers than it needs. The economy is so strong in that province that it needs people from other parts of Canada to work there simply to achieve basic human resources demands. Canada's economy should be so lucky as to be as strong as Alberta's.

You know what... I'm almost positive that you're all wrong. Completely positive. You people have allowed your blind hatred of anything, and everything, conservative, to blind you to reality. The reality is, folks, that it's perfectly logical for a political leader to shift to the center as the result of his former political party combining with a more moderate party. Harper's new moderate views is not a facade... it is a reality naturally brought about through uniting with the old centrist PCs.

You know what... I'm going to enjoy my stay here. I'm going to enjoy watching the predictable upsurge in the Canadian economy brought about by lowering the GST (just as Alberta's complete and utter lack of a Provincial Sales Tax helps that province mightily). I'm going to enjoy watching Harper govern moderately, and refraining from making substantial legislative alterations to hot button issues. I'm going to enjoy watching the vehement left on this board all eat crow, or look stupid for failing to admit that they were wrong.

Your unwarranted viciousness towards Harper has made up my mind. I'm voting Conservative this election.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: I am amazed by the le

I suspect though that your decision was already made before you joined the board With that said, as a moderate, i can see some valid points to your argument..but on the same instance, i can see just as much the extreme on the other side of the spectrum.

Because there is so much extreme on the left and right, your post sounds more like an attack on people's whose opinions differ from yours than any valid argument. Since when is it wrong to be passionate about what you belive in? Or is this passion a conservative exclusive?

As far as I'm concerned..yes..some make Harper out to be the Anti-Christ..that the sky will fall if a Cons take gov't...but i guess thats only in response to the last 12 or so years of the conservatives going off the deep end saying that the moral fiber of this country is going to hell and the Liberals are to blame for all of it.

Tit for tat i guess.

 

[jimmoyer]

Generally, I feel the same away about how the Left
excercises itself so viscerally.

BUT !!

I like to listen to the Left in order to keep my
own understanding more honest.

Don't overreact to the point you cancel everything
the Left says.

I say this to you as a card carrying Republican Conservative from America.

The achilles heel is to completely deny the value
of the opposition.

 

[Hank C]

Glad to see you onside Triple R.....I also believe the tax cuts the Torys are proposing will be able to boost our economy. Not only this but our productivity is no where need where it should be, and I hope we will be able to address these and other economic problems. Yes our economy is good...but it can be better! Alberta is an example for the rest of Canada to follow.

Most of the left wingers unfairly attack anything the presume conservative.....but it is expected. There are always voices of doubt when a major change is imminent!

By the way Triple R.....from which part of the nation do you hail from?

 

[FiveParadox]

Left-wing Policies

With all due respect, Triple_R, I disagree.

I would assert that you are being far too general in your categorizing of "the left-wing." I, for one, am left-wing, and believe (in my opinion) that I have maintained quite a high level of degree of respect for the Honourable Stephen Harper and for his party, while maintaining an opposition to a majority of his platform.

I have never written an article on this site, to my knowledge (and I apologize if I have inadvertantly made some ommissions), without including the "Honourable" before Mr. Harper's name or position. This is a way in which I am constantly reminded that, even though I am at odds with some of what he stands for, he does deserve my respect, as the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, and more importantly, as a citizen of Canada.

Again, you are overgeneralizing.

I will be voting for the Liberal Party of Canada — but I respect the Honourable Stephen Harper, Conservative Member of Parliament, and Leader of the Opposition.

 

[jimmoyer]

You know, underneath all the partisan furor that turns
off each opposing side, is a real fundamental debate
on the philosophy of what correct balance of socialism
and capitalism we should achieve in the name of the
common good.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: I am amazed by the le

What common good? There is no common good. Great for a utopian world i suppose, but for the rest of the free world where people are individual creatures by nature, asking them to give up their beliefs to appeal to some common good that will not appeal to anyone at all is probably asking a bit much. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people having differences of opinon in this world..or have we gone so freaking far left and right that the middle ground is obsolete?

 

[Finder]

HEY! <snip>,
I'm a leftist and I've been supporting a CPC-NDP government even before the CPC looked as if they could even achieve a minority. So <snip> before you try to generalize everyone next time.

(if you havn't noticed unlike... lets say Paradox or someone else I calls them like I see's em.)

No need for name calling or being abusive. Please review the TOS

 

[tracy]

Am I the only person who doesn't see how Alberta's economy can be replicated in the rest of the country? Alberta has lots and lots of oil and that industry is the force behind their economy. Without that, their economy wouldn't be anything special and they would certainly have a provincial sales tax.

And no offense meant, but I really wouldn't want the rest of Canada to be just like Alberta. Money-wise it would be nice, but socially speaking I think Alberta is a little too regressive for me.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: I am amazed by the le

No tracy..you are not the only one. The thing people forget is that energy income comes in cycle..our economy will be hot one decade, not so hot the next.

Our economy while having a lot to do with energy and oil..had more to do with 10 solid years of cuts and increase in costs. My tuition doubled 200% while i was there, but offered less courses as a result of cuts. So i was paying for crap essentially. I broke my leg once and sat in a hospital room for 11 hours. The bottom line is that Alberta's economy is good today because of the sacrifces we had to make ...

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

Am I the only person who doesn't see how Alberta's economy can be replicated in the rest of the country? Alberta has lots and lots of oil and that industry is the force behind their economy. Without that, their economy wouldn't be anything special and they would certainly have a provincial sales tax.

And no offense meant, but I really wouldn't want the rest of Canada to be just like Alberta. Money-wise it would be nice, but socially speaking I think Alberta is a little too regressive for me.

Everyone knows it could be... But a lot of us don't want to be like Alberta! ALSO if the REST of CANANDA had oil under it, we could be just like ALBERTA too a lot more easyly. Of course as soon as the oil runs out maybe then the people of Alberta will wonder why they didn't profit from the oil money... Then they will see the big rich mega corperations leaving with there money sacks from the oil , laughing all the way home, while Alberta becomes a have not province again... Then again it's your oil, if you want to spend it on tax cuts to the wealthy and not on a good health care system while you have it... it's your own loss. *shrugs*

 

[the caracal kid]

"Most of the left wingers unfairly attack anything the presume conservative.....but it is expected. There are always voices of doubt when a major change is imminent! "

which is it then? will harper govern from the centre, meaning there will NOT be major change, or are you claiming harper will push a far-right agenda (thus major change)?

Alberta's economy: OIL and GAS. Thats it folks, nothing other than oil and gas. I would not want a government like the one in alberta to appear anywhere else in canadiana. Alberta can "live large" now while it milks the oil, but when the oil is gone, alberta is gone (if current methodologies remain in play).

And as for "leftists": the ONLY federal party i have ever given endorsement to because of its efforts on unity, trade, and debt was the Mulroney PCs.

As for Harper: I call them as i see them. the cons are not the Tories.

 

[jimmoyer]

What common good? There is no common good. Great for a utopian world i suppose, but for the rest of the free world where people are individual creatures by nature, asking them to give up their beliefs to appeal to some common good that will not appeal to anyone at all is probably asking a bit much. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people having differences of opinon in this world..or have we gone so freaking far left and right that the middle ground is obsolete?

------------------------Semperfi_dani-------------------------

Common good ?

Middle ground ?

I'm not sure there are too many practical differences
between the two.

And so you start off defying the common good
and plaintively beg for the middle ground ?

Sounds logically inconsistent.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: I am amazed by the le

Middle ground implies that there is a meeting between the left and the right to come to some neutral based ideas that appeal to both sides.

The common good implies that people must give up their beliefs to achieve a neutral status.

 

[jimmoyer]

Common good does NOT MEAN "people must give up
their beliefs to achieve a neutral status."

We're about to enter the spinning top of semantics
here.

Often the middle ground achieves the greatest common
good.

 

[the caracal kid]

but in the achievement of neutral status one often finds the achievement of nothing.

or,

in the name of progress, legacy sometimes must be abandoned.

 

[jimmoyer]

Caracal kid, you make the mistake of presuming Semperfi_dani's definition of the common good is neutral and therefore a void, a definition of nothing.

Step 1:
Often the middle ground does achieve the Common Good, more than any left or right partisan viewpoint can.

Step 2:
The greater common good is defined by putting the
welfare of a larger number of people over the welfare
of the few.

That ain't neutral, my friends.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

What common good? There is no common good. Great for a utopian world i suppose, but for the rest of the free world where people are individual creatures by nature, asking them to give up their beliefs to appeal to some common good that will not appeal to anyone at all is probably asking a bit much. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people having differences of opinon in this world..or have we gone so freaking far left and right that the middle ground is obsolete?

------------------------Semperfi_dani-------------------------

Common good ?

Middle ground ?

I'm not sure there are too many practical differences
between the two.

And so you start off defying the common good
and plaintively beg for the middle ground ?

Sounds logically inconsistent.

Well I reject your reality and substitute it for my own. (always wanted to say that)

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: I am amazed by the le

I wouldn't use alberta as an example of anything close to perfection. Alberta has all hell for a basement, in other words, it's lined with oil, natural gas, and coal reserves. It wouldn't matter what government ran this province as long as they allowed these materials to be extracted. You either work in the oil industry itself, or for a company that provides services to those that do. The PC's haven done anything special, and have given money back to oil companies in the hundreds of millions while social programs much in need of cash have to beg for scraps. Dealing with the conservatives is like getting blood from a stone, and they even tried to screw over disabled people. It's easy to get a job here, but we still have a large percentage of individuals living under the poverty line, crime is booming, and disparity continues to rise between classes. The PC's are also responsible for our crappy auto insurance too, which is now completely useless. I was rear-ended a few years ago, ending my welding carreer. I got just under 24 thousand for losing my job where I'd be making 50 thousand a year, and after recent changes, I would have recieved 10 thousand instead. If I lived in BC or saskatchewan, I would have been awarded about 100 thousand, which would have paid for my re-education for a new carreer that's less physical, and compensate me for injuries and lost wages. The kicker is that the systems in BC and Saskatchewan would charge me less for coverage, and even with better payouts the systems are almost completely self sufficient cost less to drivers as a whole. Where did MY money go? It went to investors in the insurance industry. This is what conservatives do, they open up gaurenteed profit markets so that those with capital to invest, can buy shares in insurance companies and in turn make the interest from my insurance premium. I should mention that like every other province, insurance is mandatory for drivers, and driving is mandatory for most Albertans. This is a direct example of how conservatives impliment policies to benefit the rich. The whole reason for the private medical push, is so they can sell more, guess what, insurance, so the rich can make even more money off my misfortune. YAY.

Harper also sees the Charter of rights as something in his way when it comes to gay marriage. The whole point of the charter is to give rights to those who deserve them when in contrast of the opinion of the majority. What is right, fair, just, etc... isn't always what is desireable. Canada should be about allowing all cultures and catering to none in particular. Doesn't Mr. Harper realize that gay people aren't going away, and marriage hardly means anything to people anymore? His arguements are oppressing a minority within our country, is this what you want in a PM?

 

[the caracal kid]

"The greater common good is defined by putting the
welfare of a larger number of people over the welfare
of the few.

That ain't neutral, my friends."

true, it is not neutral. we can see throughout history how putting the "welfare" of a larger number of people over that of the few has been anything but neutral for those few!

however, i was refering to progress. Progress sometimes requires a forcing of position to usher in a new era. That as well though does not make guarentees to "welfare". That is why people resist change, for the effect of the change is a probablistic.

for 1.
the common good you describe is more akin to the LCD effect (lowest common denominator) which breeds the mundane rather than the exceptional.