Genius
Posts: 953 
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
January 14th, 2006, 03:20 PM
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News...c=n011404A.xml
Harper pitches his Conservatives as best hope for national unity
HUNTSVILLE, Ont. (CP) - Stephen Harper says his Conservatives are Canada's best hope for national unity.
Re-electing a Liberal government would play into the hands of sovereigntists in Quebec, who are thriving because of anger over sponsorship corruption, Harper said Saturday during a campaign stop in Ontario cottage country.
"Every vote for the Liberal party - in Quebec or particularly outside of Quebec - quite frankly drives votes to the Bloc Quebecois," Harper told a news conference.
"Every vote for the Conservative party is pulling people from the Bloc Quebecois, and pulling people towards a new government that can unite the country and break down the polarization of the debate in Quebec."
Earlier, in delivering his stump speech to a partisan crowd in Huntsville, about 230 kilometres north of Toronto, Harper made a rare move for a national leader: he didn't utter a single word in French, to the chagrin of members of the francophone media.
Harper, who like most other leaders generally speaks a few lines of French no matter where he is, later explained that he was speaking to an English audience. He said another speech later Saturday would include some French.
"It was a crowd in a very anglophone community," he said of the speech, promising a different approach later in the day when he was to speak in the northern Ontario town of North Bay.
"It's different in North Bay, and I will deliver a different speech in North Bay," he said. "I try to match my speeches to the crowd."
Whenever Harper delivers a policy announcement, as opposed to a speech, he's careful to speak both official languages, Tory officials later noted.
The Conservatives took issue last month with what they considered an affront to bilingualism on the Liberal website, complaining about a popular campaign blog by Liberal speech writer Scott Feschuk that's only available in English.
A French blog, written anonymously, began appearing a few days later.
As for his strong showing in polls that continue to suggest he's on track to win next week's election, Harper said he's taking things one step at a time. He said he hasn't even started discussing cabinet jobs with Tory candidates.
"I have not sat down and had a discussion with anybody on that subject yet," he said.
"I haven't even discussed it with my wife yet. Those are decisions we will address only if the people of Canada give us a mandate."
©The Canadian Press, 2006
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News...c=n011404A.xml
Harper pitches his Conservatives as best hope for national unity
HUNTSVILLE, Ont. (CP) - Stephen Harper says his Conservatives are Canada's best hope for national unity.
Re-electing a Liberal government would play into the hands of sovereigntists in Quebec, who are thriving because of anger over sponsorship corruption, Harper said Saturday during a campaign stop in Ontario cottage country.
"Every vote for the Liberal party - in Quebec or particularly outside of Quebec - quite frankly drives votes to the Bloc Quebecois," Harper told a news conference.
"Every vote for the Conservative party is pulling people from the Bloc Quebecois, and pulling people towards a new government that can unite the country and break down the polarization of the debate in Quebec."
Earlier, in delivering his stump speech to a partisan crowd in Huntsville, about 230 kilometres north of Toronto, Harper made a rare move for a national leader: he didn't utter a single word in French, to the chagrin of members of the francophone media.
Harper, who like most other leaders generally speaks a few lines of French no matter where he is, later explained that he was speaking to an English audience. He said another speech later Saturday would include some French.
"It was a crowd in a very anglophone community," he said of the speech, promising a different approach later in the day when he was to speak in the northern Ontario town of North Bay.
"It's different in North Bay, and I will deliver a different speech in North Bay," he said. "I try to match my speeches to the crowd."
Whenever Harper delivers a policy announcement, as opposed to a speech, he's careful to speak both official languages, Tory officials later noted.
The Conservatives took issue last month with what they considered an affront to bilingualism on the Liberal website, complaining about a popular campaign blog by Liberal speech writer Scott Feschuk that's only available in English.
A French blog, written anonymously, began appearing a few days later.
As for his strong showing in polls that continue to suggest he's on track to win next week's election, Harper said he's taking things one step at a time. He said he hasn't even started discussing cabinet jobs with Tory candidates.
"I have not sat down and had a discussion with anybody on that subject yet," he said.
"I haven't even discussed it with my wife yet. Those are decisions we will address only if the people of Canada give us a mandate."
©The Canadian Press, 2006
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
January 14th, 2006, 03:43 PM
Well, the hope of national unity requires a national leader with the qualities of a uniter. Harper is lacking. Harper just wants power, and his own interests are serving his core of alberta which just wants to keep its hands on all its oil monies. To satisfy his alberta core, he would give similar consessions to Quebec. In essence, rather than uniting the country, he would create two new powers to play off one another.
Now part of the key to unity is rengotiation of powers with the provinces. It just needs to be done differently than the Harper approach.
Well, the hope of national unity requires a national leader with the qualities of a uniter. Harper is lacking. Harper just wants power, and his own interests are serving his core of alberta which just wants to keep its hands on all its oil monies. To satisfy his alberta core, he would give similar consessions to Quebec. In essence, rather than uniting the country, he would create two new powers to play off one another.
Now part of the key to unity is rengotiation of powers with the provinces. It just needs to be done differently than the Harper approach.
Genius
Posts: 953
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
January 14th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Well right now we are seeing the CPC support go up at the expense of the Bloc and the Liberals....so I guess Quebecers see it from a different light. Really, think about the situation if Martin and his Liberals win this election! This is going to be a huge problem with Quebec and increased seperatist support, Alberta will not be taking it lightly, as will Sask, interior BC, and many other people who have been outraged by the Liberals. The Torys are the only chance we have at reversing the downward trend!
Well right now we are seeing the CPC support go up at the expense of the Bloc and the Liberals....so I guess Quebecers see it from a different light. Really, think about the situation if Martin and his Liberals win this election! This is going to be a huge problem with Quebec and increased seperatist support, Alberta will not be taking it lightly, as will Sask, interior BC, and many other people who have been outraged by the Liberals. The Torys are the only chance we have at reversing the downward trend!
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
January 14th, 2006, 04:11 PM
If the Cons (the harper cons are NOT the torys) are the only chance than might as well carve the country up into new countries now and be done with it.
This is like saying "i hate the sting of wasps so much i would rather be bit by a cobra".
If the Cons (the harper cons are NOT the torys) are the only chance than might as well carve the country up into new countries now and be done with it.
This is like saying "i hate the sting of wasps so much i would rather be bit by a cobra".
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,995 
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
January 14th, 2006, 04:14 PM
I agree.
Harper is willing to devolve power from the center. That should appease the soft nationalists in Quebec who will ultimately decide if Quebec stays or goes.
Canada shouldn't be a highly centralized federation. Its too big and sparsely populated. The more power closer to the people, the better.
I agree.
Harper is willing to devolve power from the center. That should appease the soft nationalists in Quebec who will ultimately decide if Quebec stays or goes.
Canada shouldn't be a highly centralized federation. Its too big and sparsely populated. The more power closer to the people, the better.
Genius
Posts: 953
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
January 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News...rc=n01149A.xml
Martin tries to shore up crumbling Quebec base, Harper seeks Ontario gains
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTTAWA (CP) - Paul Martin and Stephen Harper both portrayed themselves as the best hope for national unity on Saturday, the former as he tried to shore up support in traditional Liberal strongholds in Montreal, the latter as he sought to stake out new turf in Ontario.
Both went after Quebec federalist votes, hoping to drain support from the Bloc Quebecois.
There was an urgent tone to Martin's campaigning as he worked six Montreal ridings, five of which have been in Liberal hands for generations. Harper, in contrast, was smiling and upbeat as he campaigned in north-central Ontario, which has been a Liberal red region for three elections.
Polls suggest the Bloc holds a half-share of the total Quebec vote and the Tories are making inroads against the Liberals, but Martin said he wasn't desperate to rescue core support.
"Essentially, I am a Montrealer. I spend a fair amount of time in Montreal."
Yet he was almost pleading for support as he spoke to party workers in the riding held by Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew.
"I'm here today on this most important week as we lead up to the election campaign, to say to you how hard it is for you, how important is for you to work for Pierre Pettigrew."
He urged federalist voters not to abandon the Liberals.
"Quite clearly I would certainly encourage every federalist to vote Liberal," he said.
He also tried to lure soft New Democrat voters, saying they share values on issues such as child care, the environment and taxes.
"I would very much hope that progressive voters would vote Liberal."
Harper said a re-electing a Liberal government would play into the hands of sovereigntists in Quebec, who have been rejuvenated by the sponsorship scandal.
He said a vote for his party hurts the Bloc, while a vote for the Liberals helps them. "We can unite the country."
"Every vote for the Liberal party provides support for the Bloc because those votes are a reaction against Liberal corruption and every vote for the Conservative party draws votes away from the Bloc Quebecois."
Harper also said he believes his party can win seats right across the country, which would squelch the Liberal claim that only they can claim to be a truly national party with MPs from every region.
"We can win seats in every region and at this point I think we are the only party that can realistically win seats in every province," said Harper.
But Harper refused to be drawn into predicting victory.
Smart people ignore the polls, he said.
He also said he hasn't discussed the potential makeup of a Harper cabinet, even with his wife.
Martin said Harper has a problem in Quebec with the platform he released Friday. The Liberals complain that platform has no firm figures for addressing the so-called fiscal imbalance between the federal and provincial governments.
"One of the first things he said when he came here was that he was going to solve the so-called fiscal imbalance," Martin said. "It's very clear he has no intention of addressing it."
Harper says there is money factored built into the platform calculations, but said he isn't going to negotiate the details in mid campaign.
Harper was campaigning with one-time leadership rival Tony Clement.
Clement, once a provincial cabinet minister in the Ontario Tory government of Mike Harris, is trying to unseat Agriculture Minister Andy Mitchell in the riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka.
NDP Leader Jack Layton was also in Ontario, staging an old-fashioned, tub-thumping campaign rally with union leaders and their supporters.
He seemed to echo Martin when he warned that a Conservative government would alienate Quebec.
He said the Tory tax-cutters share few values with Quebecers, who especially cherish their social programs. Those programs would be endangered under a Conservative regime, he said.
Federalists who can't agree with the Tories should vote for the NDP, he said, although his party generally runs in the single digits in public support in the province.
©The Canadian Press, 2006
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News...rc=n01149A.xml
Martin tries to shore up crumbling Quebec base, Harper seeks Ontario gains
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTTAWA (CP) - Paul Martin and Stephen Harper both portrayed themselves as the best hope for national unity on Saturday, the former as he tried to shore up support in traditional Liberal strongholds in Montreal, the latter as he sought to stake out new turf in Ontario.
Both went after Quebec federalist votes, hoping to drain support from the Bloc Quebecois.
There was an urgent tone to Martin's campaigning as he worked six Montreal ridings, five of which have been in Liberal hands for generations. Harper, in contrast, was smiling and upbeat as he campaigned in north-central Ontario, which has been a Liberal red region for three elections.
Polls suggest the Bloc holds a half-share of the total Quebec vote and the Tories are making inroads against the Liberals, but Martin said he wasn't desperate to rescue core support.
"Essentially, I am a Montrealer. I spend a fair amount of time in Montreal."
Yet he was almost pleading for support as he spoke to party workers in the riding held by Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew.
"I'm here today on this most important week as we lead up to the election campaign, to say to you how hard it is for you, how important is for you to work for Pierre Pettigrew."
He urged federalist voters not to abandon the Liberals.
"Quite clearly I would certainly encourage every federalist to vote Liberal," he said.
He also tried to lure soft New Democrat voters, saying they share values on issues such as child care, the environment and taxes.
"I would very much hope that progressive voters would vote Liberal."
Harper said a re-electing a Liberal government would play into the hands of sovereigntists in Quebec, who have been rejuvenated by the sponsorship scandal.
He said a vote for his party hurts the Bloc, while a vote for the Liberals helps them. "We can unite the country."
"Every vote for the Liberal party provides support for the Bloc because those votes are a reaction against Liberal corruption and every vote for the Conservative party draws votes away from the Bloc Quebecois."
Harper also said he believes his party can win seats right across the country, which would squelch the Liberal claim that only they can claim to be a truly national party with MPs from every region.
"We can win seats in every region and at this point I think we are the only party that can realistically win seats in every province," said Harper.
But Harper refused to be drawn into predicting victory.
Smart people ignore the polls, he said.
He also said he hasn't discussed the potential makeup of a Harper cabinet, even with his wife.
Martin said Harper has a problem in Quebec with the platform he released Friday. The Liberals complain that platform has no firm figures for addressing the so-called fiscal imbalance between the federal and provincial governments.
"One of the first things he said when he came here was that he was going to solve the so-called fiscal imbalance," Martin said. "It's very clear he has no intention of addressing it."
Harper says there is money factored built into the platform calculations, but said he isn't going to negotiate the details in mid campaign.
Harper was campaigning with one-time leadership rival Tony Clement.
Clement, once a provincial cabinet minister in the Ontario Tory government of Mike Harris, is trying to unseat Agriculture Minister Andy Mitchell in the riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka.
NDP Leader Jack Layton was also in Ontario, staging an old-fashioned, tub-thumping campaign rally with union leaders and their supporters.
He seemed to echo Martin when he warned that a Conservative government would alienate Quebec.
He said the Tory tax-cutters share few values with Quebecers, who especially cherish their social programs. Those programs would be endangered under a Conservative regime, he said.
Federalists who can't agree with the Tories should vote for the NDP, he said, although his party generally runs in the single digits in public support in the province.
©The Canadian Press, 2006
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
January 14th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Quoting
Maybe, but that could just be because the CPC's numbers in Quebec have nowhere to go but up. It doesn't mean they have the sort of support needed to really impact the political scene in the province.
Well right now we are seeing the CPC support go up at the expense of the Bloc and the Liberals....so I guess Quebecers see it from a different light.\\
Member
Posts: 179
January 15th, 2006, 05:15 AM
Quoting
Agreed. I don't understand why so many people think that a strong central government is best for Canada. Quebec's key political issues are very different from Alberta's, which are very different from Ontario's, which are very different from Newfoundland's. There's a few areas of agreement (Health Care, for example), but by and large each region of Canada has unique regional issues. These issues are best represented by people actually living in those regions (i.e. provincial governments, and the people themselves) having the most say in how their particular region will run and operate.
I agree.
Harper is willing to devolve power from the center. That should appease the soft nationalists in Quebec who will ultimately decide if Quebec stays or goes.
Canada shouldn't be a highly centralized federation. Its too big and sparsely populated. The more power closer to the people, the better.
Harper is willing to devolve power from the center. That should appease the soft nationalists in Quebec who will ultimately decide if Quebec stays or goes.
Canada shouldn't be a highly centralized federation. Its too big and sparsely populated. The more power closer to the people, the better.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 15th, 2006, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Then you don't need a federal government. Just like Caracel Kid, just break up into five six countries already. Who the hell cares, if you want and know everything works on the provincial level then you don't need Canada.
Agreed. I don't understand why so many people think that a strong central government is best for Canada. Quebec's key political issues are very different from Alberta's, which are very different from Ontario's, which are very different from Newfoundland's. There's a few areas of agreement (Health Care, for example), but by and large each region of Canada has unique regional issues. These issues are best represented by people actually living in those regions (i.e. provincial governments, and the people themselves) having the most say in how their particular region will run and operate.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
January 15th, 2006, 09:03 AM
Well being an Moderate NDP supporter, I'm also the first to say that the NDPs best hope in Quebec is for MMP or PR to come into use so they might elect one MP... with that said the NDP are completely usless.
The Bloc are regonized as a social democratic party, so centre leftist voters will most likely vote for them.
Conservative voters will either vote conservative or in the past they will lend there vote to the Liberals for federalism.
Liberals are the main federalist vote, untill this election that is.
It would seem as if the NDP which had made big gains in quebec at the start have lost them since the CPC had there surge in Quebec. IT would seem as if hard line Federalist NDP/Social democrats and left liberals have chosen to move there vote back to the Liberals in hopes to keep the ridings in Liberal hands.
Harper being the voice for federalism. The conservative party since ww1 has had a bad taste in the french voters mouth. with the serge of cpc votes, I can only see this in bolding the conservative swing vote to the liberals here. As in these conservatives for the first time, well in there lives almost see a possible CPC vicory in Quebec. This may split the federalist vote in many federalist riding... and yes with FPTP, the split can cost them a lot, with federalist magority ridings going to the bloc. We arn't talking about a mmp system where vote spliting isn't that big of a deal, this is fptp and this will hurt the federalist cause, by electing more bloc heads.
We are lucky that the NDP surge in quebec was short lived and stoped. If they had gained from the liberals anymore I'd fear we'd lose almost all of quebec.
Well being an Moderate NDP supporter, I'm also the first to say that the NDPs best hope in Quebec is for MMP or PR to come into use so they might elect one MP... with that said the NDP are completely usless.
The Bloc are regonized as a social democratic party, so centre leftist voters will most likely vote for them.
Conservative voters will either vote conservative or in the past they will lend there vote to the Liberals for federalism.
Liberals are the main federalist vote, untill this election that is.
It would seem as if the NDP which had made big gains in quebec at the start have lost them since the CPC had there surge in Quebec. IT would seem as if hard line Federalist NDP/Social democrats and left liberals have chosen to move there vote back to the Liberals in hopes to keep the ridings in Liberal hands.
Harper being the voice for federalism. The conservative party since ww1 has had a bad taste in the french voters mouth. with the serge of cpc votes, I can only see this in bolding the conservative swing vote to the liberals here. As in these conservatives for the first time, well in there lives almost see a possible CPC vicory in Quebec. This may split the federalist vote in many federalist riding... and yes with FPTP, the split can cost them a lot, with federalist magority ridings going to the bloc. We arn't talking about a mmp system where vote spliting isn't that big of a deal, this is fptp and this will hurt the federalist cause, by electing more bloc heads.
We are lucky that the NDP surge in quebec was short lived and stoped. If they had gained from the liberals anymore I'd fear we'd lose almost all of quebec.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 15th, 2006, 09:05 AM
And I thought the NDP was close to winning in two seats??
Quote:
Why?
We are lucky that the NDP surge in quebec was short lived and stoped. If they had gained from the liberals anymore I'd fear we'd lose almost all of quebec.
And I thought the NDP was close to winning in two seats??
