Newbie
Posts: 11 
August 27th, 2002, 06:18 PM
General/Summary: I have been a very big Civilization fan all the way back when since I played the first one on an old Amiga. I had it on SNES as well years later and I had 3 versions of Civilization 2 on my PC. When I heard the news of Civilization 3 I was estatic to put it lightly. With all the various versions of Civ 2 that were being made and milked to death it seemed like generations had passed without the next official edition to Sid Meiers all time classic. When I finaly bought it played it, well thats where the excitement dropped majorly. I was highly disapointed in what they did to the game. They took the game and just turned it over on its head and took what was once a fun and exciting game, into a very hard and lacking strategy game that seemed like it was Civ 2 with its legs missing.
The biggest thing going for the game was the implimation of a culture system, which creates boarders for your nations. Finaly theres some way to keep track of your nation and the more you build in your cities the bigger your boarders grow over time, as does your influence where you can maybe get neighboring cities to defect to your side. Also helps in score and for keeping enemies out of your territory. This is probably the best element to this game that makes it better then the previous Civilizations. After this though, the changes are more negative then positive.
Some of the biggest changes of the game that I had problems with are:
1) They got rid of the Wonder Movies, the animated advisers and got rid of some of the fun wonders that were added from the second game. With those missing it really just feels like its lacking. The advisers now are just little heads in the top corner and they will give some random advice on something. usualy repeating the same thing over and over . When you get a Wonder of the world instead of a thrilling movie you get a still picture illustration of it saying "you got ____ "and you can either click on it to find out what it does or it will take you to the what do you want to build next screen. Very disapointing. I remember how exciting it was when you would get say the Statue of Liberty and get a really cool movie of it where it would tell you what it did after the exciting music happend. Now theres not even a Statue of Liberty in this game. So forget about being able to change govts without anarchy in this game. This really was a huge disapointment at how much they got rid of these elements that made Civ 2 so much fun.
2) Cannons, Catapults and Artillary are now all what they call Bombardment weapons. Meaning they can no longer be used as offensive weapons. now they just are used to weaken units but can attack from a range so thats the benefit of it but over all without these weapons to use anymore you now just have to rely on melee charcters which makes things pretty lame when catapults used to always be the go to weapon and now its just a weapon you will use as an add on to your miliatry units. Im not to happy at all with the bombarding system they came up with and it just is another way that they took the fun out of the game limiting the units and their powers. Elephants are now also only used by the India civ making Polytheism pretty useless. There is a way to fix this by using the civ editor that comes with the game. You can make the weapons offensive units again and make the elephants recieved in Poly once again, but still the game wasn't fun with the way they took away base units and their functions. Helicoptors and missiles are also changed in how they are used. If it aint broke don't fix it and They broke it for sure.
3) No more caravan and spy/espionage units. Trading actualy is much easier in this game and this change I didn't mind to much. Instead of having to build a truck or caravan and then walk it 30 turns all the way to another city, now you get trade just by connecting cities via a road. If they are connected to each other by roads you get the trade benefits. Very simple. Spies though are now missing and gone all together. Instead they have a espionage system that you get after you build the wonder for it that you can pretty much just put a spy in by using a command. No more units for it . Same with embasy as well. Those changes do take a lot away as a big part of civ 2 was using spies to take cities or form emabsies and now its just a ctrl command and it just isn't as much fun as actualy moving the units yourself to make the decisions.
4) Now you have to actualy connect resources via road to your city to be able to build certain units. Like if you want to upgrade to musketeers you need saltpeter to be connect to a city by the road and only in the cities that have it can get that unit. No more automaticaly updating things either. Now they have it that you use some key command over a unit and it will update everyone one of that particular type of unit that can be updated as long as the required resource is in the cities. Again taking a lot away by trying to add more. The change is a trade off as it makes roads more vital but can get annoying when Leonardo's Workshop is nothing more now then getting a half price reduction on upgrades you do yourself. It was great in Civ 2 whenthe upgrades happend after getting it. now it really is useless since everyone can upgrade anyway.
5) AI is way to smart and expands way to much. In civ 2 if you played Chieftan or Warlord level you were in for a joke of a game almost every time. Now they have made all the difficulties way to hard and the other civs over expand making taking over the world a real challenge at times if you play on a normal sized map. by the time you find some civs they have 30 cities and a lot of units as they just keep pumping them out. For cheiftan level, it shouldn't be that advance for the computer. Alsot he computer seems to have this habit of building right on your territory making it that you have to go to war as they take up space and going for a peaceful game is almost very hard to come by as they will either get annoyed with you or you with them.
6) Interaction with the leaders is now I would have to say improved but even this has many drawbacks to the old method. Now you can really get in detail things you want from the other leader including resources, cities and money. You can make trades of things and ask for exactly what you want but the chances of getting something over the top is very slim and usualy they wind up asking for way tom uch and if you don't give it they get angry. I had times where they just demanded 300 gold and an advance for only one lesser advance and when you try and make the trade fair they get all angry. So while the idea of this system was improved it still gives the AI way to much of an edge as its basicaly thier way or no way .
7) No more Zone of Control or Unit stacking. The end of Zone of control is a nice one. I never liked that aspect as it didn't make esnse that you coudln't walk diagnaly next to an enemy unit , having to take the long way around. That is a plus. but no more unit stacking. While you can have units all on the same spot they don't act like they did in previous civ games. Now they have a new unit called the army unit where you can build a huge force of 4 units into one unit wher their combined power is used as one huge unit. That also I would have to say is a plus. But not enough to save the game overall.
Biggest change though is the over all fun of the game just isn't there anymore. What was once a very fun and complete game that anyone can play is not a complicated, over edited and over tweeked game of what was once the best turn based strategy game of all time. The game seems slow to start and the computer seems to always be on equal levels with you . It lacks the fun factor and the extra bells and whistles that really put Civ 2 heads over other games. They took away the fun of the game to add graphics and characteristics of the leaders , forgetting what truly made the game fun in the first place. The fact that everyone could play it and do the game in the way they wanted and go the paths they wanted were what civ is about. now its more of a history game trying to make sure everything is accurate and things like the Eifel tower and Fundamentalism are gone in the name of making the game to challening. Games are supposed to be fun last I checked and this one just isn't.
Gameplay: Game play is almost the same as previous civ games. You use the num pad to move your units. You can move them in any of 8 directions. No more zone of control so you can move right next to other units or in the enemy territory. The game can get very slow when you are first exploring and having to deal with Barbarians which was also changed in this game. now instead of just randomly showing up at various places, they actualy have huts that they operate from and to stop a certain barbarian tribe from constant attacks you have to get their hut. But it will always randomly form somewhere else so in essensce its the same exact thing just with a new idea of doing it.
Building is much easier as now you don't have to go into the city itself to pick what you want to build. A selection menu will ask what you want to build without having to go back in. That makes things speed up as does a que system where you can stalk up things you want it to build without you telling it to do it when the previous building finishes for a city. Workers take place of most of the functions that the settlers used to do. Settler just builds cities now while Workers do the mining, roads , pollution removal..etc. Does make things flow faster as well where you don't have to waste settlers that can build cities to build a road. you now get two seperate units.
They add an element of realism with the leaders and civs having a historicaly correct personality. Ghandi for instance will usualy be peaceful and non aggressive, where Ceaser would be aggressive and not mind starting war with you if you make him mad. They leaders of each civ do look very well polished and 3d modeled but still its just the same thing that was done in previous civs. Instead of just a painting its a head that now shows emotion. Units though actualy make realistic sounds. When a warrior is victorious in battle he will raise his arms up or groan out in pain when he is defeated.
Another good part would be that you now automaticaly get the spot that was once occupied by the unit you defeated. no more having to wait until the next turn to get cities or the spot you wanted after a victory. This has pros and cons too as if you are using a unit to defend a city you now would move out of the city after you attacked . So it works kinda backwords in a way.
Game really doesn't start to get fun until you reach the industrial age where you get good military units and good city improvements to build. up until this point its just racing with your opponents to build a bigger empire then them city wise and usualy that can be a task in itself as they build very fast as compared to previous games. Even when it gets to this point the game isn't as much fun as it was in the past. To much is missing and you can either beat them with tanks or get a cultrual victory and its like ho hum game over. Missing that element that was there when you slowly worked your way up but still had units that made every time period just as much fun.
Hopefuly in the expansion they will make improvements to fix some of the things lacking. The way civ 2 was admired for all its improvements and changes, this game is frowned upon with the changes. They went one step to far and took away to much. If it aint broke don't fix it. The improvements that were good could have been added to the civ 2 engine and a civ 3 game would have worked very well but the way it turned out is this is civ 2 running on low power.
Graphics: Graphics are pretty nice actualy. Very bright colors and models. Landscapes actualy look more like how they should instead of some pixels and faded colors. Vast continents and a new display give a very welcoming environment. Graphics still could have used more improvement and besides some bell and whistle improvement graphicly from previous its not to much greater. Animated units is great over the old box style that they had way back when. When push comes to shove though you don't need the graphics for this game. This game is a gameplay based game and that is what the core of the game is. With that not there anymore the graphics just don't matter as much as you don't enjoy what you are playing enough to enjoy the slight graphical changes they made.
Leaders do look much better then some painting in the background but civ 2 had avis of advisors and wonders. Graphicly that was much better then what we get in civ 3 so in that sense the graphics went down over the previous game.
Sound: New music soundtrack that is both good and bad. The music is pretty repetitive but fits for the time period you find yourself in so it works. I found myself eventualy turning off the music though as it slowed the game down while the music tracks would load.
units sound very well done and represent what they are with the animations currently being done of the unit you are using accurately. Still the missing fun sounds like, "We love the king day" music and the military advisor yelling at you to build units take away a lot from this game. Even the old civil disorder music would help as even that is confusing to find all your cities in disorder as sometimes they will zoom past it so fast you can't tell.
Music is nice but civ 2's simple music that fit for the situation at hand worked much better.
General/Summary: I have been a very big Civilization fan all the way back when since I played the first one on an old Amiga. I had it on SNES as well years later and I had 3 versions of Civilization 2 on my PC. When I heard the news of Civilization 3 I was estatic to put it lightly. With all the various versions of Civ 2 that were being made and milked to death it seemed like generations had passed without the next official edition to Sid Meiers all time classic. When I finaly bought it played it, well thats where the excitement dropped majorly. I was highly disapointed in what they did to the game. They took the game and just turned it over on its head and took what was once a fun and exciting game, into a very hard and lacking strategy game that seemed like it was Civ 2 with its legs missing.
The biggest thing going for the game was the implimation of a culture system, which creates boarders for your nations. Finaly theres some way to keep track of your nation and the more you build in your cities the bigger your boarders grow over time, as does your influence where you can maybe get neighboring cities to defect to your side. Also helps in score and for keeping enemies out of your territory. This is probably the best element to this game that makes it better then the previous Civilizations. After this though, the changes are more negative then positive.
Some of the biggest changes of the game that I had problems with are:
1) They got rid of the Wonder Movies, the animated advisers and got rid of some of the fun wonders that were added from the second game. With those missing it really just feels like its lacking. The advisers now are just little heads in the top corner and they will give some random advice on something. usualy repeating the same thing over and over . When you get a Wonder of the world instead of a thrilling movie you get a still picture illustration of it saying "you got ____ "and you can either click on it to find out what it does or it will take you to the what do you want to build next screen. Very disapointing. I remember how exciting it was when you would get say the Statue of Liberty and get a really cool movie of it where it would tell you what it did after the exciting music happend. Now theres not even a Statue of Liberty in this game. So forget about being able to change govts without anarchy in this game. This really was a huge disapointment at how much they got rid of these elements that made Civ 2 so much fun.
2) Cannons, Catapults and Artillary are now all what they call Bombardment weapons. Meaning they can no longer be used as offensive weapons. now they just are used to weaken units but can attack from a range so thats the benefit of it but over all without these weapons to use anymore you now just have to rely on melee charcters which makes things pretty lame when catapults used to always be the go to weapon and now its just a weapon you will use as an add on to your miliatry units. Im not to happy at all with the bombarding system they came up with and it just is another way that they took the fun out of the game limiting the units and their powers. Elephants are now also only used by the India civ making Polytheism pretty useless. There is a way to fix this by using the civ editor that comes with the game. You can make the weapons offensive units again and make the elephants recieved in Poly once again, but still the game wasn't fun with the way they took away base units and their functions. Helicoptors and missiles are also changed in how they are used. If it aint broke don't fix it and They broke it for sure.
3) No more caravan and spy/espionage units. Trading actualy is much easier in this game and this change I didn't mind to much. Instead of having to build a truck or caravan and then walk it 30 turns all the way to another city, now you get trade just by connecting cities via a road. If they are connected to each other by roads you get the trade benefits. Very simple. Spies though are now missing and gone all together. Instead they have a espionage system that you get after you build the wonder for it that you can pretty much just put a spy in by using a command. No more units for it . Same with embasy as well. Those changes do take a lot away as a big part of civ 2 was using spies to take cities or form emabsies and now its just a ctrl command and it just isn't as much fun as actualy moving the units yourself to make the decisions.
4) Now you have to actualy connect resources via road to your city to be able to build certain units. Like if you want to upgrade to musketeers you need saltpeter to be connect to a city by the road and only in the cities that have it can get that unit. No more automaticaly updating things either. Now they have it that you use some key command over a unit and it will update everyone one of that particular type of unit that can be updated as long as the required resource is in the cities. Again taking a lot away by trying to add more. The change is a trade off as it makes roads more vital but can get annoying when Leonardo's Workshop is nothing more now then getting a half price reduction on upgrades you do yourself. It was great in Civ 2 whenthe upgrades happend after getting it. now it really is useless since everyone can upgrade anyway.
5) AI is way to smart and expands way to much. In civ 2 if you played Chieftan or Warlord level you were in for a joke of a game almost every time. Now they have made all the difficulties way to hard and the other civs over expand making taking over the world a real challenge at times if you play on a normal sized map. by the time you find some civs they have 30 cities and a lot of units as they just keep pumping them out. For cheiftan level, it shouldn't be that advance for the computer. Alsot he computer seems to have this habit of building right on your territory making it that you have to go to war as they take up space and going for a peaceful game is almost very hard to come by as they will either get annoyed with you or you with them.
6) Interaction with the leaders is now I would have to say improved but even this has many drawbacks to the old method. Now you can really get in detail things you want from the other leader including resources, cities and money. You can make trades of things and ask for exactly what you want but the chances of getting something over the top is very slim and usualy they wind up asking for way tom uch and if you don't give it they get angry. I had times where they just demanded 300 gold and an advance for only one lesser advance and when you try and make the trade fair they get all angry. So while the idea of this system was improved it still gives the AI way to much of an edge as its basicaly thier way or no way .
7) No more Zone of Control or Unit stacking. The end of Zone of control is a nice one. I never liked that aspect as it didn't make esnse that you coudln't walk diagnaly next to an enemy unit , having to take the long way around. That is a plus. but no more unit stacking. While you can have units all on the same spot they don't act like they did in previous civ games. Now they have a new unit called the army unit where you can build a huge force of 4 units into one unit wher their combined power is used as one huge unit. That also I would have to say is a plus. But not enough to save the game overall.
Biggest change though is the over all fun of the game just isn't there anymore. What was once a very fun and complete game that anyone can play is not a complicated, over edited and over tweeked game of what was once the best turn based strategy game of all time. The game seems slow to start and the computer seems to always be on equal levels with you . It lacks the fun factor and the extra bells and whistles that really put Civ 2 heads over other games. They took away the fun of the game to add graphics and characteristics of the leaders , forgetting what truly made the game fun in the first place. The fact that everyone could play it and do the game in the way they wanted and go the paths they wanted were what civ is about. now its more of a history game trying to make sure everything is accurate and things like the Eifel tower and Fundamentalism are gone in the name of making the game to challening. Games are supposed to be fun last I checked and this one just isn't. Gameplay: Game play is almost the same as previous civ games. You use the num pad to move your units. You can move them in any of 8 directions. No more zone of control so you can move right next to other units or in the enemy territory. The game can get very slow when you are first exploring and having to deal with Barbarians which was also changed in this game. now instead of just randomly showing up at various places, they actualy have huts that they operate from and to stop a certain barbarian tribe from constant attacks you have to get their hut. But it will always randomly form somewhere else so in essensce its the same exact thing just with a new idea of doing it.
Building is much easier as now you don't have to go into the city itself to pick what you want to build. A selection menu will ask what you want to build without having to go back in. That makes things speed up as does a que system where you can stalk up things you want it to build without you telling it to do it when the previous building finishes for a city. Workers take place of most of the functions that the settlers used to do. Settler just builds cities now while Workers do the mining, roads , pollution removal..etc. Does make things flow faster as well where you don't have to waste settlers that can build cities to build a road. you now get two seperate units.
They add an element of realism with the leaders and civs having a historicaly correct personality. Ghandi for instance will usualy be peaceful and non aggressive, where Ceaser would be aggressive and not mind starting war with you if you make him mad. They leaders of each civ do look very well polished and 3d modeled but still its just the same thing that was done in previous civs. Instead of just a painting its a head that now shows emotion. Units though actualy make realistic sounds. When a warrior is victorious in battle he will raise his arms up or groan out in pain when he is defeated.
Another good part would be that you now automaticaly get the spot that was once occupied by the unit you defeated. no more having to wait until the next turn to get cities or the spot you wanted after a victory. This has pros and cons too as if you are using a unit to defend a city you now would move out of the city after you attacked . So it works kinda backwords in a way.
Game really doesn't start to get fun until you reach the industrial age where you get good military units and good city improvements to build. up until this point its just racing with your opponents to build a bigger empire then them city wise and usualy that can be a task in itself as they build very fast as compared to previous games. Even when it gets to this point the game isn't as much fun as it was in the past. To much is missing and you can either beat them with tanks or get a cultrual victory and its like ho hum game over. Missing that element that was there when you slowly worked your way up but still had units that made every time period just as much fun.
Hopefuly in the expansion they will make improvements to fix some of the things lacking. The way civ 2 was admired for all its improvements and changes, this game is frowned upon with the changes. They went one step to far and took away to much. If it aint broke don't fix it. The improvements that were good could have been added to the civ 2 engine and a civ 3 game would have worked very well but the way it turned out is this is civ 2 running on low power.
Graphics: Graphics are pretty nice actualy. Very bright colors and models. Landscapes actualy look more like how they should instead of some pixels and faded colors. Vast continents and a new display give a very welcoming environment. Graphics still could have used more improvement and besides some bell and whistle improvement graphicly from previous its not to much greater. Animated units is great over the old box style that they had way back when. When push comes to shove though you don't need the graphics for this game. This game is a gameplay based game and that is what the core of the game is. With that not there anymore the graphics just don't matter as much as you don't enjoy what you are playing enough to enjoy the slight graphical changes they made.
Leaders do look much better then some painting in the background but civ 2 had avis of advisors and wonders. Graphicly that was much better then what we get in civ 3 so in that sense the graphics went down over the previous game.
Sound: New music soundtrack that is both good and bad. The music is pretty repetitive but fits for the time period you find yourself in so it works. I found myself eventualy turning off the music though as it slowed the game down while the music tracks would load.
units sound very well done and represent what they are with the animations currently being done of the unit you are using accurately. Still the missing fun sounds like, "We love the king day" music and the military advisor yelling at you to build units take away a lot from this game. Even the old civil disorder music would help as even that is confusing to find all your cities in disorder as sometimes they will zoom past it so fast you can't tell.
Music is nice but civ 2's simple music that fit for the situation at hand worked much better.
