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Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

  • Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Avro
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#1Feb 18th, 2011
--

Pssst.

I’m going to give away a strategic secret.

Climate activists cheer whenever Christopher Monckton elbows his way onto the stage with climate denying scientists like Roy Spcncer, or whenever pathetic misguided politicians or tea party buffoons hold him up as their resident expert.
His pattern of dishonesty, bizarre claims, and overall lunacy have make him the perfect face of the climate denial movement – one that perpetually reminds the viewer of the anti science crowds deeply crazy roots.
 
BaalsTears
+1
#2

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Until China and India agree to reduce the pace of economic development there is nothing that can be done about global warming. Look at what happened at the Copenhagen Conference in December 2009. That's just the truth of the matter.
 
petros
#3

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Why should China and India not be allowed to develope and compete globally industrially?
 
BaalsTears
#4

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Why should China and India not be allowed to develope and compete globally industrially?

China and India are sovereign nations entitled to determine their own policies. I was making an observation of fact.

Let me ask you a question s'il vous plait. How can global warming be addressed without the complete cooperation of China and India?
 
Avro
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#5

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Until China and India agree to reduce the pace of economic development there is nothing that can be done about global warming. Look at what happened at the Copenhagen Conference in December 2009. That's just the truth of the matter.

Sorry to be the bearer if bad news but China is rapidly become a leader in green energy.
 
BaalsTears
#6

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Sorry to be the bearer if bad news but China is rapidly become a leader in green energy.

That's not bad news to me. My family is Chinese/Eurasian. We cheer Chinese progress. Gung Hay Fat Choy Gweilo.

But the Chinese also open at least one coal fired plant each week.

So I return to my question because I'm the kind of guy who likes to stay with the question posed.

How can global warming be stopped unless the Chinese and Indians cooperate fully?
 
Avro
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#7

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

That's not bad news to me. My family is Chinese/Eurasian. We cheer Chinese progress. Gung Hay Fat Choy Gweilo.

But the Chinese also open at least one coal fired plant each week.

So I return to my question because I'm the kind of guy who likes to stay with the question posed.

How can global warming be stopped unless the Chinese and Indians cooperate fully?

It can't, but we aren't doing anything to help it either.

The way things are going they will corner the market before we do.

In North America we are more concerned with the status quo.....except for a small few who have taken action on their own.
 
BaalsTears
#8

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

It can't, but we aren't doing anything to help it either.

The way things are going they will corner the market before we do.

In North America we are more concerned with the status quo.....except for a small few who have taken action on their own.

By and large I agree with that. The problem in America is that it is so completely polarized now that very little is likely to get done on any front. California has green legislation, but the state is so completely broke and dysfunctional that it really doesn't matter. Don't let my pessimism rub off on you. Hang in there.
 
Avro
#9

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Don't let my pessimism rub off on you. Hang in there.

Trust me it won't.....and it hasn't.
 
Tonington
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+1
#10

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
One person alone can't change the obesity epidemic either, but there are undoubtedly advantages to addressing individual obesity.
 
Ron in Regina
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+1
#11

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 18th, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

--

Pssst.

I’m going to give away a strategic secret.

Climate activists cheer whenever Christopher Monckton elbows his way onto the stage with climate denying scientists like Roy Spcncer, or whenever pathetic misguided politicians or tea party buffoons hold him up as their resident expert.
His pattern of dishonesty, bizarre claims, and overall lunacy have make him the perfect face of the climate denial movement – one that perpetually reminds the viewer of the anti science crowds deeply crazy roots.


I generally have (more or less) have avoided the AGW threads as of late.

It always makes me question an argument though when the need is there to
attack the Messenger and not the Message. I don't think this helps sell an idea
or position in an argument or debate though.
 
Avro
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#12

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 21st, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

I generally have (more or less) have avoided the AGW threads as of late.

It always makes me question an argument though when the need is there to
attack the Messenger and not the Message. I don't think this helps sell an idea
or position in an argument or debate though.


If I was attacking the messenger I'd post something personal like this......




I didn't...I posted something about the science Lord (not really) Monckton peddles.

Here's more of the crap he spews.

--

I almost feel sorry for Monckton, he is taking such a beating these days, that very soon no one will want to be seen on the same platform.
Given his consistent ability to bring the crazy, I hope we can hold that day off as long as possible.
 
Tonington
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#13

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 21st, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

It always makes me question an argument though when the need is there to
attack the Messenger and not the Message. I don't think this helps sell an idea
or position in an argument or debate though.

I wish more people were like you. The majority of the denial of climate science comes in the form of personal attacks. Climategate was personal attacks in the extreme, and many people bought that bunk uncritically.
 
darkbeaver
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#14

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 21st, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

I wish more people were like you. The majority of the denial of climate science comes in the form of personal attacks. Climategate was personal attacks in the extreme, and many people bought that bunk uncritically.


Climategate is very specific in its criticisms Tonington. In fact it follows very good scientific methodology. All the disputed material exists and all that material is examined. You will no doubt have noted the very much muted speel from the CO2 and global warming proponents lately. That is because their funding is disappearing. You may be guilty of exactly the same uncritical review of what you believe to be true when it is quite plainly unsupportable cooked rubbish. I bought nothing without proper critical review. Yes I am once again pointing out to you that you may have bought an uncriticized rubber chicken. Such is the swift retreat from greenhouse gas theory I hardly think it necessary to post links to science that refutes the entire fraud of the CO2 climate lever. In the coming years the law suits should register with you as significant reasons to doubt what you uncritically believe now.
 
Tonington
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#15

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 21st, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Such is the swift retreat from greenhouse gas theory I hardly think it necessary to post links to science that refutes the entire fraud of the CO2 climate lever. In the coming years the law suits should register with you as significant reasons to doubt what you uncritically believe now.

It's telling that you believe a court of law is a place to settle scientific matters.

You're off your rocker, put the crack pipe down.
 
captain morgan
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#16

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 21st, 2011
Individuals, corporations and society as a whole are subject to answer to the courts for fraudulent or misleading deeds, what makes science exempt from this especially if it is intended to impact national policy
 
darkbeaver
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+1
#17

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

It's telling that you believe a court of law is a place to settle scientific matters.

You're off your rocker, put the crack pipe down.

I wish it wasn't that way but when the public is confronted with the seamless monolithic wall of scientific consensus (oxymoron) fueled entirely by money and interest in opposition to the public right to know then the fullest extent of the law should be brought to bear on the apparent mechanisms of organized crime, and make no mistake that is precisely what the evidence points to, fraud and manipulation of the public for undisclosed purposes. Only some science at the highest levels of the scientific establishment have given their approval for the farce of the global CO2 initiated climate change model. The money and power machines gears are plainly and damningly visible.
In my opinion it is long past the time when the scientific establishment should rightfully answer for their multitutinous crimes against humanity. You may scoff as you like but the evidence points in the direction of those scientific institutions as the handmaids of criminal enterprise. Scientists are human and despite protestations to the contrary are subject to the very same lapses of good judgment even in the face of the much vaunted but ignored scientific method. The scientific establishment has begun to assume the same reputations as the used car sales business.

PS: not more than four frames previous to this one you lament the inclusion of personal attacks but forget that in an instant to engage in personal attack via the ancient crack pipe slur. As I was saying the individual scientist can hardly be trusted at his word.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Individuals, corporations and society as a whole are subject to answer to the courts for fraudulent or misleading deeds, what makes science exempt from this especially if it is intended to impact national policy

A very dangerous question Captn. The substitution of the scientist for the saint and their transmutation into minor gods was completed by the monnied class via the elevation of charlitans like Carl Sagan who were employed to hawk Disneyesque psudo science in the mundane effort to sell toilet paper and vehicles.
Last edited by darkbeaver; Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:11 AM..
 
captain morgan
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#18

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

A very dangerous question Captn. The substitution of the scientist for the saint and their transmutation into minor gods was completed by the monnied class via the elevation of charlitans like Carl Sagan who were employed to hawk Disneyesque psudo science in the mundane effort to sell toilet paper and vehicles.


"Science" has morphed itself into the predominate religion of the 21st century. Anyone group/individual that does not march lockstep and maintain an unquestioning and unwavering position is grilled at the behest of today's contemporary Inquisition... The most recent rash of doomsayers is proof-positive of this unfortunate trend.
 
darkbeaver
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#19

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

"Science" has morphed itself into the predominate religion of the 21st century. Anyone group/individual that does not march lockstep and maintain an unquestioning and unwavering position is grilled at the behest of today's contemporary Inquisition... The most recent rash of doomsayers is proof-positive of this unfortunate trend.

Exactly,the main task of academia these days, the maintenance of monotheism through the back doors of science. The great and mighty all knowing BB singularity at the beginning of time and space. Is it even remotely possible to mistake that for anything other than God? Beware the finger pointing to dooms unseen while your grain rots in the fields and your flocks swell and die. Ivan The Stinky; chpt 9 verse 11
 
Avro
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#20

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
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His Lordship got really steamed at Abraham and called him a bunch of names.
 
darkbeaver
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#21

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Yer story is dripping puddles of oil and the tires are flat, that old bucket of rust you're trying to flog on the unsuspecting public is a big lemon. For christ sake Avro put climate denial out to pasture the old nag's gone lame and it's got the heaves, you need a new horse.
 
Avro
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#22

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Wow, what an epic fail that comeback was.

Is that one of many standard lines from basement scientists like you.

Thing is you'd have actually view what I posted to make a statement defending not really a Lord Monckton.

You and your ilk never do, it's just more of the same crap you always spew....it's the banks...it's the Jews....it's corporatism....it's aliens....it's a cabal of left leaning scientists....blah blah blah blah.

More to come....

More to ignore....
 
Tonington
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#23

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Individuals, corporations and society as a whole are subject to answer to the courts for fraudulent or misleading deeds, what makes science exempt from this especially if it is intended to impact national policy

Fraud is a matter for the court, no matter where it happens. To beat a dead horse, no inquiries have found evidence of fraud.

To repeat, scientific matters are not settled in court. Courts use scientific expertise to evaluate evidence, but they don't rule on results of study, or the progression of the frontiers of human knowledge. Courts ask the experts for their expertise, and the experts have, year after year, produced scientific inquiries that have strengthened the "case" that it is human activities that are the major contributor to our current climactic changes.
 
captain morgan
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#24

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Fraud is a matter for the court, no matter where it happens. To beat a dead horse, no inquiries have found evidence of fraud.

Based on some of the emails related to Climategate, misuse of funds and insinuations of misconduct relative to the research would merit investigation and potential charges of fraud.
 
Tonington
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#25

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Based on some of the emails related to Climategate, misuse of funds and insinuations of misconduct relative to the research would merit investigation and potential charges of fraud.

Yes, after the release of the stolen emails there were investigations. None of them found evidence of fraud. The only way it could be made to look like fraud was to remove the context, which of course the so-called skeptical bloggers and journalists happilly obliged. --. --. --. --

Guess how many of those bloggers and journalists have retracted their claims? The only one of which I'm aware of is a British journalist, George Monbiot.
 
captain morgan
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#26

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Yes, after the release of the stolen emails there were investigations. None of them found evidence of fraud. The only way it could be made to look like fraud was to remove the context, which of course the so-called skeptical bloggers and journalists happilly obliged. --. --. --. --

Guess how many of those bloggers and journalists have retracted their claims? The only one of which I'm aware of is a British journalist, George Monbiot.


First off, I brought up Climategate as an example, I'm not interested in getting into whether or not that event was fraud or misunderstanding or whatever.

That said, any investigation into these matters would need to involve a non-partisan and apolitical authority... Again, without getting into an argument about the validity of the claim(s), having the Science Assessment Panel is without merit as they are too closely related to the group that are the (alleged) offenders (ie the CRU).

They needed to have an outside group adjudicate the science as well as the police to determine if there were grounds to investigate further.
 
Tonington
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#27

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

They needed to have an outside group adjudicate the science as well as the police to determine if there were grounds to investigate further.

That's a ridiculous statement. So, how then would you propose that lawyers and judges are investigated, if they can't be adjudicated by someone who practices law?
 
captain morgan
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#28

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
I should have guessed... It's only fair to allow the accused to judge themselves.

Go figure
 
Tonington
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+2
#29  Top Rated Post

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I should have guessed... It's only fair to allow the accused to judge themselves.

How obtuse...Having a panel of scientists determine whether peer review has been corrupted is not the same thing at all as having Phil Jones determine whether or not Phil Jones was corrupting the peer review process.
 
captain morgan
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#30

Re: Lord Monckton...hero of Denialism

Feb 22nd, 2011
Obtuse? You find objectivity and the criminal justice system obtuse?

Regardless, it had much more to do than peer review.. There were direct allegations of academic fraud for the purpose of securing funding (among other serious allegations). Peer review on that issue is irrelevant.

The details of the investigation efforts that you posted resulted in the accused being allowed to judge themselves. If they had nothing to hide, an independent body (scientific and legal) would not have made any difference, would it?
 

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