Species wide suicide

[Cobalt_Kid]

I've been doing a great deal of reading in the last six months on Global Warming, climate change and the extensive campaign by industry to dely and block change as long as possible.

Some things to keep in mind:

-Companies like ExxonMobil, Southern Company and associations like Western Fuels, American Pertroleum Institute, and Peabody Energy have spent over a billion dollars in the last dozen years to confuse the science as much as possible and influence lawmakers into doing nothing in North America.

-According to some experienced climatologists like James Hansen the director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies in New York, there's a very real risk of a runaway greenhouse effect if we consume all coal, oil and natural gas reserves. It becomes a "dead certainty" if we convert and burn the tar sands and oil shales. A runaway greenhouse would exterminate all surface life on the planet btw.

- There's over 1,400 coal fired power plants being planned for construction in the next 20 years worldwide.

Some great books on the subject are:

The Weather Makers, by Tim Flannery
Storm of my Grandchildren, by James Hansen
Hell and High Water, by Alastair McIntosh
Climate Cover-Up, by James Hoggan
Boiling Point, by Ross Gelbspan
Censoring Science, by Mark Bowen

 

[taxslave]

Would you rather we immediately destroyed our economy and way of life on the off chance it would stop global warming? The cities would be the first to go with no more transporting of food to them and no heat or cooking facilities even if there was a bit of food. No water or sewer either.
I'm not advocating free spewing of pollution but it is not that simple to change a system that has evolved over many years just because s couple of gloom and doomers say so. These people? have cried wolf and lied a few too many times causing many unnecessary disruptions to peoples lives.

 

[Tonington]

Right...because those are the only options. Business as usual or complete elimination of all industry...

 

[Kakato]

China is the one building dirty coal fired power plants every day.

 

[taxslave]

Right...because those are the only options. Business as usual or complete elimination of all industry...

No these are not the only options but Suzuki and others of his ilk are always pushing for the end to industry. Business as usual in reality means continually upgrading pollution abatement equipment and attempting to follow ever more stringent rules, all of which is expensive and time consuming. Those that are not employed in the resource industries do not have a good grasp of what we put up with from various government agencies on a daily basis. I am employed in cleaning up logging debris so it is not burned and you would not believe the hurdles that various bureaucrats put in front of us to make even that unworkable. What is worse is when different ministries that think they have a say in our jobs give us conflicting rules. Makes you want to go postal when all we really want is to do a good job and go home safe with a good paycheque.

 

[Tonington]

China is the one building dirty coal fired power plants every day.

And they also lead the world in renewable energy deployment, $34.6 billion in 2009 compared to the US who spent $18.6 Billion in 2009. The top three in five year investment growth of renewable energy are China, Brazil, and Turkey.

No these are not the only options but Suzuki and others of his ilk are always pushing for the end to industry.

Did the original poster mention David Suzuki? I've read the first book on the list, Tom Flannery's. It's a very good read, and does not push for an end to industry.

In fact, that's a huge lie. Nobody, including David Suzuki are pushing for an end to industry. They push for newer technology.

Nice repetition of lies though...

 

[Kakato]

Is David Suzuki still being chauferred around to his conferences in that huge black limo?

 

[taxslave]

Nice repetition of lies though...

Yes that is mostly what the greenies do. A lie is as good as the truth if it gets donations from the gullible.

 

[Kakato]

Newsflash,the climate will change,just as it has for millions of years,there will also be another ice age which will be followed by tropical climes and then another ice age.

 

[Tonington]

Is David Suzuki still being chauferred around to his conferences in that huge black limo?

Do you still beat women?

Nice repetition of lies though...

Yes that is mostly what the greenies do. A lie is as good as the truth if it gets donations from the gullible.

The irony is lost on you apparently. You're the gullible one parroting lies here.

 

[Kakato]

Yes,we should all follow China's example of looking after the environment.

 

[Tonington]

Yes,we should all follow China's example of looking after the environment.

No, but we shouldn't follow the advice of an energy industry apologist either.

 

[Kakato]

No, but we shouldn't follow the advice of an energy industry apologist either.

That's right,lets stick to facts,fact is Alberta has some of the most regulated industy in the world and are under a microscope 24/7.
We also lead the world in new technology to be more environmentally responsible.

I have a few awards under my belt for reclamation participated in for the territories and B.C.
Alberta doesnt get awards yet but they do more then most.

 

[Tonington]

That's right,lets stick to facts,fact is Alberta has some of the most regulated industy in the world and are under a microscope 24/7.

Right, yet somehow the concentrations of 7 heavy metals has been allowed to exceed the minimum requirements set out by Canadian and Albertan law for the protection of aquatic life.

Alberta and the oil sands industry has denied for years that a problem exists, despite multiple independent investigations. A province that makes money off this industry is also supposed to be monitoring the environmental standards...

Seems like a possible conflict of interest to me. I mean maybe we don't need arms length monitors like the Auditor General in Ottawa either. The government should be trusted to do the right thing always, right?

Yeah right...

 

[Cliffy]

There is no way to strip mine and be environmentally sound. Strip mining by its very nature is an environmental disaster no matter how much you try to mitigate the outcome. A huge chunk of earth has been torn out, toxic materials have been exposed. The tar sands have strip mine a vast area. No amount of reclamation or mitigation will ever return the area to its natural self. I say, stop all oil exploration and exploitation. Focus on alternatives. People have no choice but to use oil at present because it is all that is available because all our energy money goes into the oil industry instead of development of alternatives. The argument that there are no viable alternatives is pure BS propaganda. The only reason there is no viable alternatives is because Big Oil is hogging all the money and resources. The only thing stopping us from a 180 degree turn in efficient energy is greed, pure and simple. We have the technology, the scientific know how but industry does not have the will.

 

[Kakato]

The strip mines I worked at in B.C. won the jade for reclamation many years in a row and I bet if you flew over you would not be able to tell where the open pits were.

Clear cut logging does far more damage then strip mining.

 

[Cliffy]

The strip mines I worked at in B.C. won the jade for reclamation many years in a row and I bet if you flew over you would not be able to tell where the open pits were.

Clear cut logging does far more damage then strip mining.

I would agree about clear cut logging. When I lived near Quesnel, they clear cut everything within a hundred miles of that place. It was so bad they had to cut the tourist corridor along side the Barkerville highway because there was nothing left to log. We won't even get into all the oil cans and other environmental crap they left on landing or the used oil they used to keep down the dust on roads and oil and fuel leaking from machinery, etc.

 

[Kakato]

Right, yet somehow the concentrations of 7 heavy metals has been allowed to exceed the minimum requirements set out by Canadian and Albertan law for the protection of aquatic life.

Alberta and the oil sands industry has denied for years that a problem exists, despite multiple independent investigations. A province that makes money off this industry is also supposed to be monitoring the environmental standards...

Seems like a possible conflict of interest to me. I mean maybe we don't need arms length monitors like the Auditor General in Ottawa either. The government should be trusted to do the right thing always, right?

Yeah right...

While as a junior inspector for encanna I found out how tough enviro laws are,not them that gets the fine or jail time bud.
You dont take a pi** off a lease site without a permit and it would take weeks to get a permit.
I dont know where you get the idea that the industry can do as they please anymore.

 

[Tonington]

I dont know where you get the idea that the industry can do as they please anymore.

Read the paper I posted in the other thread. That's where the idea comes from.

 

[Kakato]

I would agree about clear cut logging. When I lived near Quesnel, they clear cut everything within a hundred miles of that place. It was so bad they had to cut the tourist corridor along side the Barkerville highway because there was nothing left to log. We won't even get into all the oil cans and other environmental crap they left on landing or the used oil they used to keep down the dust on roads and oil and fuel leaking from machinery, etc.

I spent 4 years working in the bush and know how bad it was,people used to also drive into the hills to change their oil in their vehicles back then,i'm guilty of this too.

The strip mines use potash now instead of oil or a mixture of tree sap and potash,calcium is rarely used anymore for dust control.
The one mine I was at in B.C. was very good at being environmentally responsible.
Same with the one in Nunavut,But the mines of 20 years ago have left a huge toxic mess,same with the tailings ponds,MFT is ver bad stuff and needs to be cleaned up.
The gold mines polluted the lands and waters with cyanide and littered the tundra with used oil drums in the north.
Me and one other guy cleaned up and contained approx. 2000 twenty year old diesel drums in the last exploration camp I was manager at with him in the Arctic.They got an award for that cleanup.

Time to be pro active and clean things up and make sure it doesnt happen again,not point fingers and play the blame game.