
Any argument must be logical to be valid. No knowledge whatever is needed to check the logic of an argument (except the knowledge of how to test the logic).
If an argument is logical it doesn't follow that it is correct, but only that it could be.
If an argument is not logical it does follow that its conclusion was arrived at improperly. That doesn't mean the conclusion is false (though it likely is) but that the conclusion was arrived at by some other means than logic.
1) Humans have contributed a tiny fraction of the carbon in the atmosphere (0.24%)

2) The atmosphere is already saturated. More carbon does not equal more heat.
3) The atmospheric carbon isn't a heat source. The sun is the heat source. Therefore it is the sun that causes warming.

Oh no no no no. This isn't fully fascism, it's all the Marxist idealisms combined. This is a global liquidation of billions of people all in the name of " I don't giive a ****, I want more and I'm not going to share with anyone not the right colour AND class".
Pollution and alleged resource shortages stops in it's tracks with 80% of the people gone.
Greenocide
Tired of Red or Blue? Try NEW Soylent Green!!!

No, and this is the part you and he both seem to have problems with. Science is falsifiable. You can post a link to a study which finds contradicting evidence to that I posted, or that refutes a portion of the study which renders it's conclusions in err. If you can't, well then in the face of evidence to the contrary, it is misinformation to continue to state such things...
I wouldn't think that this even needs explaining.

I stand corrected.
BTW, congratulations (sincerely). There are very few individuals that have the courage to fly in the face of political correctness and identify the absolute root of this issue (assuming that AGW is an issue) and you've nailed it dead on.
The Al Gore's, Suzukis and the eco-tards are too frightened to point out that anthropogenic CO2 is produced by... (wait for it)... Humans!
But that point is irrelevant to the far left and eco-fringe... It's easier to assess arbitrary blame on "the haves".
I've observed your treatment of contradictory evidence. Generally speaking, your rebuttal is centered on attacking the author and the remainder relies on the element of profiling that opposing opinion as that of a "denier".

So you're saying even if AGW is real, the root of it is Marxism? roflmao

Excuse me? It seems to me that's what they voice the loudest and most often.

The haves being the ones that pollute the most? Yeah, it is easiest.

Petros introduced the Marxist element, why don't you ask him... However, if you insist on deliberately misconstruing the sentiment, then we shouldn't waste any more time exchanging.
Have you even listened to what they are saying?.. The fact that they aren't identifying this component reeks of an agenda.
Really?... I suppose the 500 new coal-fired electricity generation stations being built in China are there to serve the upper class in that nation?
Wrong... My analysis is spot-on.

I've observed your treatment of contradictory evidence. Generally speaking, your rebuttal is centered on attacking the author and the remainder relies on the element of profiling that opposing opinion as that of a "denier".

You said: "No one is trounced. Skeptics just lose their funding and get black listed by their peers."
'Just' is not general.
I wonder how many are trounced because...their work isn't very good, because it's not consistent with reality or good methodology?
There was a paper last year, by McLean de Freitas and Carter (MFC). They claimed things in the press like:
If the SOI accounts for short-term variation then logically it also accounts for long-term variation.
Which is completely nutso. Place a thermometer outside. The short term variation likely follows a pattern, due to earth's rotation. That's the diurnal signal. Does that mean that the rotation of the diurnal signal also accounts for the change from say December to August? That is a logical fail.
What they did in this paper is filter out the long term variation from temperature, and then they analyze what's left, and proclaim that the El Nino/Sothern Oscillation accounts for 72% of the global tropospheric temperature anomaly. Then they make claims about this explaining the long-term trend in temperatures.
Well what's wrong with that? They removed the long-term trend before making an analysis of ENSO's effects on temperature.
A comment appeared in JGR, but MFC could not pull together a response to the comment. Today, there is still not a single citation for this paper by MFC.
That's not because they were black listed, or because they lost funding. It's because the paper was rubbish, and probably shouldn't have been published. Mistakes happen. That's why there is a comment, addendum, response function for journals. Sometimes peer review fails.

I've observed your treatment of contradictory evidence. Generally speaking, your rebuttal is centered on attacking the author and the remainder relies on the element of profiling that opposing opinion as that of a "denier".

What contradictory evidence?
I call you guys deniers, because that is exactly what you do...I gave Scott Free a reference that discusses the effects of collisions between molecules on the spectra, and he continues to say that the atmosphere is saturated. Based on what? He's denying established science.
So quit whining about your treatment. I'm not your mother and you're old enough that you shouldn't need coddling.

Pretty much. All I did was google "debunk saturation myth" and got pages full of science.

So instead of blaming humans, Bore and Snoozuki claim AGW is brought on by what else?

rofl The purpose isn't to give electricity away to the poor, it's to make money for the rich.

The thing is, it's not even new science. But in today's world, one can just repeat something they ran across on the internet. Goes back to that blog Avro posted. A lie spreads around the world in a day, but takes much much longer to address, and some will still believe the lie after it's been shown to be a lie.
Check this paper out, it's from 1946, and discusses pressure broadening. It's just unreal...the chutzpah some people have:
Phys. Rev. 69, 616 (1946): The Pressure Broadening of Spectral Lines

So:
1. What type of energy is in flux here?
2. What is the magnitude and direction the flux changed in? Can we estimate the forcing it imposes on our climate?
3. What kinds of predictions does this allow you to make, about the trajectory of our climate over the next few decades, and out to one century?

What contradictory evidence?
I call you guys deniers, because that is exactly what you do...I gave Scott Free a reference that discusses the effects of collisions between molecules on the spectra, and he continues to say that the atmosphere is saturated. Based on what? He's denying established science.
So quit whining about your treatment. I'm not your mother and you're old enough that you shouldn't need coddling.
Go back and read what I posted, then get back to me
The Al Gore's, Suzukis and the eco-tards are too frightened to point out that anthropogenic CO2 is produced by... (wait for it)... Humans!
Would those coal-fired plants get the eco-stamp of approval if "the poor" built them?
That's some great logic there.... AGW doesn't exist if it's emitted by those in or below a certain income level.
Clearly you subscribe to the same logic as your mentor.

There is no contradictory evidence (that passes your scrutiny), therefore, all who oppose are "deniers".
No, you misunderstand. What contradictory evidence has been presented here? That is my question. You brought it up.











I didn't. Petrus brought it up, you agreed and I thought it was funny so I posted a condensed version of it. And then you whined about my joke.... You said And I said, it seems to me they've been squawking about humans causing AGW (and CO2) since day 1.

I doubt it, but what difference does that make? They aren't being built for anyone's benefit but whoever is building them.... lol How many poor do you know go flying around the globe, building factories, running factories, taking cruise ship tours, etc.?

And that's without resorting to insults, which is something you accused Tonington of doing. But it's ok if you insult people, though, huh, just not anyone else?

No, you misunderstand. What contradictory evidence has been presented here? That is my question. You brought it up. So, which evidence am I not responding to? Which evidence am I not addressing? You say my treatment is to bash the poster and then call them a denier. I bash the idea, give a link or two, or whatever is necessary, and then when you guys continue to say these things I call you ignorant and a denier.
A spade is a spade.

I've been waiting years for him to post something substancial. I think he has a fetish for fuzzy haired bananas and middle aged fembots just because they are the only names he knows.
Didn't you get your fill when I schooled you in your ridiculous belief that geothermal energy would save the planet? Do you recall?... Have you you so quickly forgotten that despite your adherence to a personal belief that you - and especially your corporate operations - are in direct conflict with the very nonsense that you expound here?
You are still the very same hypocrite that you were on the Canada.com forums Iggy - for as much as things change, they are still the same.



No I didn't. you never taught me or anyone else **** all except your infatuation with old Japs.

Yup my business uses energy. Very little actually and thanks to federal regulations and bitching and whining from stockholders when I leave a drill site it's spotless.
So I'll ask you again what is the cycle you claim is behind the planetary climate and tectonic changes?

Ohhh, it was a joke was it?
I didn't get that from your post. It appeared to be more of a simpleton's view of a subject that had no relevance, especially when you were called on it.

What difference does it make?!... Are you serious?
Don't you greenies get your panties all in a bunch the very minute that humanity emits more than the prescribed and predetermined amount of CO2 that is allotted to each person? I'd think that those societies that were building hundreds, if not thousands, of coal-fired electricity plants would get your hackles up.... Oh, I guess I forgot, it's only ghg's and CO2 produced from Western nations are evil - the rest are eco-friendly regardless of socio-economic elements.
Give 'er your best shot.
I can only assume from your past posts that the best is yet to come.
Oh?.. Does youre snide and condescending attitude count as an insult, or is that a privilege that you reserve exclusively for yourself?
As far as Tonnington is concerned; I have an opinion of that individual that I've expressed in (relatively) non-offensive terms.. He/she is who they are, but in the end, they will eat a massive dose of crow - just like yourself in terms of this issue... The only question that remains; will you (or Tonnington) be big enough to man-up and admit fault, or will you find minuscule and retarded reasons to absolve yourself(s) of responsibility.
My bet is you'll look for any and all excuses to absolve yourself of taking ownership of your statements.
Let's see... Why don't you start with explaining - in the context of anthropogenic global warming - the preponderance of past periods of glaciation (absent mankind) and consequent recession of said glaciers (again, absent mankind).
I am so looking forward to being educated in terms of "calling a spade a spade".
I await (for a long time I'd imagine) seeing any kind of response to this that is SCIENTIFIC AND REPEATABLE... After all, you are the voice of science after all.
Good luck.. (I'll understand if you're unable to really respond (other than with excuses and rhetoric Like dinosaur farts for example)).
BTW, learn to spell before you elect to take the high road with others Forrest.

Alright, I'm done here. Evidently you hippies are going to believe whatever you want.
I'm not sure what you're all getting out of this. Does it feel good to belong to a "special" green club? Perhaps you think you sound like experts or you think you're gaining some prestige? Perhaps you feel more in control of your own lives.
I don't know. I don't care.
But I know dogmatism when I hear it.

Lets compare pole movement and global warming. What do you think we'll find?
Well. Those two graphs either scream correlation or it screams coincidence?
A fool would say coincidence.
The 1982 drop is a dead give a way.


Lemme see, the graph of temp anomalies has a rapid increase since about 1900. The graph of polar movement shows a shift after about 1970. That's a 70 year difference. So where did the heat from polar movement go during those 70 years? A scenic tour around the galaxy?


Oh I almost forgot. Thanks for your tax money, I really appreciate the incentives and heavy breaks Harper is doling out.