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January 26th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Quoting herald
Because the word means a person who's turned away from a position once held, which is what I did. I was raised religious, and I abandoned it because I found it useless and silly.
Dexter, what makes you think, that, you are apostate..
Quote:
I don't believe anyone or anything's listening.
Reach out to the Lord and seek His forgiveness. He is very willing to forgive.
Les
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January 27th, 2008, 12:40 PM
) Might as well believe Mother Goose will give you eternal life. Or a leprachaun. Or a faerie.
Quoting
Um, yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah......... that's one of the points of atheism. We atheists are busy enjoying this life without fussing over and dreaming about a next life which will never come. Being faithful wastes as much life as sleeping does except sleeping has a better purpose; it keeps people from going wacko. All faith does is give people with two good legs a crutch with which to limp. (That's a metaphore
Then, all you have is this life...
) Might as well believe Mother Goose will give you eternal life. Or a leprachaun. Or a faerie.
Super Genius
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January 28th, 2008, 06:13 AM
There's nothing even close to that in the branch of Paganism that I practised, nor in any one that I've ever heard of. Perhaps it was a notion from Jewish paganism, but in this case you have to be precise and indicate the exact branch it "crept" from, and not just throw all Pagan beliefs and religions into one pile.
Quoting herald
I hardly ever poke my nose into Christian threads, but since I'm here I just need to ask one question. How come every Christian who disagrees with some dogma, finds a way to call it a Pagan notion?
Actually, those who are lost do not suffer, eternally, in hell. That is a pagan notion, that, first crept into Judaism and then into the Christian church.
There's nothing even close to that in the branch of Paganism that I practised, nor in any one that I've ever heard of. Perhaps it was a notion from Jewish paganism, but in this case you have to be precise and indicate the exact branch it "crept" from, and not just throw all Pagan beliefs and religions into one pile.
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January 28th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Quoting herald
Yes, that's all any of us have. Make the best of it. According to the best evidence, it's all there is.
Then, all you have is this life...
Quote:
Aside from a few cherry-picked quotes from assorted apocalyptic bits of the Bible--and I don't consider that a reliable source for such things--what reason is there to think there's going to be a judgment? Jesus made it pretty clear that he'd return within the lifetimes of the people he was addressing, and St. Paul quite clearly expected it within his lifetime, though he wasn't one of the people Jesus was talking to. Hasn't happened, and it should have by now, or both Jesus and Paul, to name only the most prominent claimants, were wrong. If there is an apocalyptic end of the world, it'll be because we did it to ourselves.
...and then, the judgment.
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January 28th, 2008, 11:35 AM
Jesus comes to each of us individually upon recognition of Him in our hearts.
He is born in us as a child and grows up accordingly as strong as we allow Him to, to rule our hearts, again if we allow Him to.
Every living soul has a the seed of God's potential in them, the question is, will we allow it to be born, to break out and live in us and be our comfort throughout our lives, as we deal with adversities.
Herald's intentions are admirable, honest and sincere as far as his beliefs are, for the stage of his understanding is adolescence.
A mature believer understands the love of God is upon all individuals regardless of belief.
The question is,does every individual understand the workings of God? No!
Therefore, it is the burden of the mature believer to demonstrate God's love unconditionally.
Love is the only weapon of choice, for nothing can beat it. If we don't have and exercises love, regardless of belief or unbelief,then we don't have nothing at all.
If we have Jesus in us, then we need Him not to come again, for He is in us already!
Peace>>>AJ
Quote:
I agree with that statement.
If there is an apocalyptic end of the world, it'll be because we did it to ourselves.>>>Dexter
Jesus comes to each of us individually upon recognition of Him in our hearts.
He is born in us as a child and grows up accordingly as strong as we allow Him to, to rule our hearts, again if we allow Him to.
Every living soul has a the seed of God's potential in them, the question is, will we allow it to be born, to break out and live in us and be our comfort throughout our lives, as we deal with adversities.
Herald's intentions are admirable, honest and sincere as far as his beliefs are, for the stage of his understanding is adolescence.
A mature believer understands the love of God is upon all individuals regardless of belief.
The question is,does every individual understand the workings of God? No!
Therefore, it is the burden of the mature believer to demonstrate God's love unconditionally.
Love is the only weapon of choice, for nothing can beat it. If we don't have and exercises love, regardless of belief or unbelief,then we don't have nothing at all.
If we have Jesus in us, then we need Him not to come again, for He is in us already!
Peace>>>AJ
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January 28th, 2008, 11:37 AM
The notion of rewards and punishments in this life and the next grew quite naturally out of the centuries when the Jews in OT times were under the domination of foreign powers. It was obvious that the oppressors were flourishing and the Jews were suffering, and since it was unthinkable that god is unjust, it's logical to conclude that the injustices of this life will be dealt with in the next . The problem of good and evil became hugely complex, at least theologically speaking, and the Book of Job is one consequence of it.
Quoting herald
No it's not. The pre-Christian notion of hell shows up in the OT as Sheol, a place of infinite nothingness whose chief characteristic is the absence of god, not a place of punishment. The old Greek notion of Hades is similar, a grey place of negativity, with a portion of it, Tartarus, reserved for tormenting notable criminals, like poor old Sisyphus endlessly rolling a rock up a hill only to have it roll down again as soon as he got it to the top.
Actually, those who are lost do not suffer, eternally, in hell. That is a pagan notion, ...
The notion of rewards and punishments in this life and the next grew quite naturally out of the centuries when the Jews in OT times were under the domination of foreign powers. It was obvious that the oppressors were flourishing and the Jews were suffering, and since it was unthinkable that god is unjust, it's logical to conclude that the injustices of this life will be dealt with in the next . The problem of good and evil became hugely complex, at least theologically speaking, and the Book of Job is one consequence of it.
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January 28th, 2008, 01:01 PM
No, not "every Christian," that's not what Vereya or I said. There's an explicit qualifying phrase in Vereya's statement, which is implicitly part of mine too. Lighten up.
No, not "every Christian," that's not what Vereya or I said. There's an explicit qualifying phrase in Vereya's statement, which is implicitly part of mine too. Lighten up.
January 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM
'Every Christian who disagrees with some dogma' was Vereya's (and I disagree with plenty, as you've heard me discuss in the past Dex, yet I don't pass it off as pagan)
You agree with it and refer to it as the 'standard operating procedure' (implicity, for any Christian who disagrees with aspects of church dogma).
'Every Christian who disagrees with some dogma' was Vereya's (and I disagree with plenty, as you've heard me discuss in the past Dex, yet I don't pass it off as pagan)
You agree with it and refer to it as the 'standard operating procedure' (implicity, for any Christian who disagrees with aspects of church dogma).
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January 28th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Christianity's been demonizing other faiths from the beginning, and other faiths do it too, it's a standard operating procedure for any new faith to do that to the ones it's trying to supplant. Many of the demons and other evil creatures of contemporary Christianity are in fact the gods of other cultures. Beelzebub, for instance, the Lord of the Flies, whom Matthew calls "the prince of the devils," was one of the gods of the Philistines.
Would you be content if we changed the word "every" to "many" or "some?" Vereya's point is perhaps a bit exaggerated, but the essential truth of it remains: Christianity *has* demonized other faiths and many elements of it continue to do so, to their great discredit.
Christianity's been demonizing other faiths from the beginning, and other faiths do it too, it's a standard operating procedure for any new faith to do that to the ones it's trying to supplant. Many of the demons and other evil creatures of contemporary Christianity are in fact the gods of other cultures. Beelzebub, for instance, the Lord of the Flies, whom Matthew calls "the prince of the devils," was one of the gods of the Philistines.
Would you be content if we changed the word "every" to "many" or "some?" Vereya's point is perhaps a bit exaggerated, but the essential truth of it remains: Christianity *has* demonized other faiths and many elements of it continue to do so, to their great discredit.
January 28th, 2008, 01:28 PM
It just seems bizarre to me when I see intelligent people complaining through the use of generalizations or misinformation, about stupid generalizations or misinformation regarding their religion or absence thereof.
But then, why you would engage herald at all seems a bit beyond reason to me. Zealots never change over the internet. If they could, I'd have had lieexpsr going to church.
It just seems bizarre to me when I see intelligent people complaining through the use of generalizations or misinformation, about stupid generalizations or misinformation regarding their religion or absence thereof.
But then, why you would engage herald at all seems a bit beyond reason to me. Zealots never change over the internet. If they could, I'd have had lieexpsr going to church.
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January 28th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Actually there is no Christian faith, there is a reworked Judaic faith and nothing else.Both have been and continue to be violently devisive and have and continue to practice barbaric forms of forced conversion and genocide, redily observable in the present cleansing of the Islamic nations, a crusade that has claimed over six million victims since 1991.
Actually there is no Christian faith, there is a reworked Judaic faith and nothing else.Both have been and continue to be violently devisive and have and continue to practice barbaric forms of forced conversion and genocide, redily observable in the present cleansing of the Islamic nations, a crusade that has claimed over six million victims since 1991.
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January 28th, 2008, 02:10 PM
Quoting darkbeaver
And, the islamic faith is 'part' of the problem, not apart from the problem.
Actually there is no Christian faith, there is a reworked Judaic faith and nothing else.Both have been and continue to be violently devisive and have and continue to practice barbaric forms of forced conversion and genocide, redily observable in the present cleansing of the Islamic nations, a crusade that has claimed over six million victims since 1991.
