Theism Exorcist
Posts: 368 
Location: The Capitol
Location: The Capitol
October 19th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Quoting YoungJoonKim
Not necessary? First of all I said you assumed that there was A purpose . We are all free to define the purposes of our lives , lack of purpose does not lead to self destruction because even as we consider out lack of purpose our lives are enriched by the search for this purpose. I don;t really understand the rest of your arguments so i;ll leave it at that.
If there was no purpose to our existence, it is better for us to disappear than to live.
Suicide, murder, and accidents must all occur so that we can just die simply because there is no purpose to life.
We should use WMD so that we could disappear.
Whether there is purpose or not, world will go on. The universe will function and move even without you and I. It will continue to give birth to stars and life. Simply because it does, not because it must.
Universe does not necessary must function to give birth to stars and death to stars. So do we.
We do not necessary must give birth. No animals or life beings are to reproduce. However, they do. It works and it goes on.
It will continue to go on whether you be dead in grave or alive in you're bed, not because you want them to be, because it does. It does not necessary must, its not a requirement, but it does.
For what?
I do not assume there is purpose in my life because I don't know what is my purpose. I also know that I am not a necessary being on this earth because we kill, pollute, and destroy some cycles of the earth. However, I exist, though not necessary. Therefore, I must have purpose because my being is not necessary but existing.
Suicide, murder, and accidents must all occur so that we can just die simply because there is no purpose to life.
We should use WMD so that we could disappear.
Whether there is purpose or not, world will go on. The universe will function and move even without you and I. It will continue to give birth to stars and life. Simply because it does, not because it must.
Universe does not necessary must function to give birth to stars and death to stars. So do we.
We do not necessary must give birth. No animals or life beings are to reproduce. However, they do. It works and it goes on.
It will continue to go on whether you be dead in grave or alive in you're bed, not because you want them to be, because it does. It does not necessary must, its not a requirement, but it does.
For what?
I do not assume there is purpose in my life because I don't know what is my purpose. I also know that I am not a necessary being on this earth because we kill, pollute, and destroy some cycles of the earth. However, I exist, though not necessary. Therefore, I must have purpose because my being is not necessary but existing.
Electoral Member
Posts: 241
Location: kelowna bc
Location: kelowna bc
November 3rd, 2007, 02:11 AM
I don't want a universe created out of nothing, can you work the same magic to make gold?
Remember our politicians can turn a universe of plenty into nothing but that doesn't mean they do miralces. If God is dead as some say, then he must have existed.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
I don't want a universe created out of nothing, can you work the same magic to make gold?
Remember our politicians can turn a universe of plenty into nothing but that doesn't mean they do miralces. If God is dead as some say, then he must have existed.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
Electoral Member
Posts: 502
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 3rd, 2007, 11:32 AM
U-Huh...
What would you like to see which will clear this up for you????
Quoting dumpthemonarchy
So Cdns have forgot about the Scientific Revolution, there is no god because there is no evidence of god-stuff, we are a speck at the end of the universe somewhere. Bunch of guys scrabbling around the desert making up weird rules.
U-Huh...
What would you like to see which will clear this up for you????
Senate Member
Posts: 5,586 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
November 3rd, 2007, 11:43 AM
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
Quoting Niflmir
Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo
I don't find such belief grounding at all. I find it self denying. Belief in some intelligent, supreme creator means that I am merely some cog in a machine. I have no purpose but the purpose that creator gave me.
Meanwhile, atheism is life affirming. My life is a beautiful and unique thing, and I can do with it what I like. I get to make my own purpose, decide where my life goes.
Saying nothing and doing your own beautiful thing is the rational substitute for magic and superstition. If you really want some hocus pocus I can show you how quantum gravity can create a universe out of nothing.
Meanwhile, atheism is life affirming. My life is a beautiful and unique thing, and I can do with it what I like. I get to make my own purpose, decide where my life goes.
Saying nothing and doing your own beautiful thing is the rational substitute for magic and superstition. If you really want some hocus pocus I can show you how quantum gravity can create a universe out of nothing.
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
Senate Member
Posts: 5,586
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
November 3rd, 2007, 11:45 AM
Cynicism, like paranoia, is often just good sense.
Quoting thomaska
Thomaska, when you leave the USMC, you should take this show on the road....you crack me up all the time.
Did god leave anything for me? Insurance money, an old lamp, anything?
Cynicism, like paranoia, is often just good sense.
House Member
Posts: 3,652
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
November 3rd, 2007, 01:18 PM
Quoting Colpy
I take quite the opposite view: with god, assuming he has the characteristics usually ascribed to him, nothing matters. He knows how it's all going to work out, and there's nothing we can do to change it. The rules of human societies reflect common human needs and experiences, rules we have invented in order to facilitate our lives as social creatures dependent on one another. Religious justifications for them are merely post hoc rationalizations. We make the rules and must define our own purposes and find our own meanings. God, in my view, most likely does not exist, if he does he does not have the characteristics usually ascribed to him by religious belief systems, and is neither necessary nor useful.
Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
November 3rd, 2007, 01:32 PM
Quoting damngrumpy
What you or I want is inconsequential. Gods did exist, as our human minds created them. The only creationism that makes any sense at all is the desire humans have for explaining everything. In the absence of plausibility, we conjure up an explanation, veiled and mysterious, as mysterious as our existential crisis would allow. That is to believe in nothing. That is the leap of faith.
I don't want a universe created out of nothing, can you work the same magic to make gold?
Remember our politicians can turn a universe of plenty into nothing but that doesn't mean they do miralces. If God is dead as some say, then he must have existed.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
Remember our politicians can turn a universe of plenty into nothing but that doesn't mean they do miralces. If God is dead as some say, then he must have existed.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
House Member
Posts: 3,652
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
November 3rd, 2007, 04:16 PM
Quoting damngrumpy
Why not? What you want doesn't enter into it, we have to go where the evidence leads. And really, what's the practical difference between natural processes creating it out of effectively nothing, and some deity doing the same thing by divine decree? I don't see that one's any easier to believe than the other, though the former does have the virtue of not having to deal with where the deity came from. Most believers just dodge that one by saying the deity's always existed, but that doesn't solve anything. If we're going to make that claim, we might as well just claim that the universe has always existed in some form.
I don't want a universe created out of nothing
Quote:
I think you might find those aren't the only options if you dig a little deeper.
Do I believe in the Evangelical version of the God concept? No.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
Do I believe in nothing but chance? Well thats a hell of a leap of faith to believe in nothing.
Council Member
Posts: 2,299
February 14th, 2008, 10:13 AM
Thanks, Colpy, you said it, plain and simple!
I have a beautiful post in my mouse, and have been looking around to find an appropriate spot to set it down..... it might as well be right here!
It is called...
Little angels
http://greatdanepro.com/Little%20Angels/index.htm
Please, help keep this post alive for a while, so many get a chance to see and read it.
Quoting Colpy
Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
Thanks, Colpy, you said it, plain and simple!
I have a beautiful post in my mouse, and have been looking around to find an appropriate spot to set it down..... it might as well be right here!
It is called...
Little angels
http://greatdanepro.com/Little%20Angels/index.htm
Please, help keep this post alive for a while, so many get a chance to see and read it.
Electoral Member
Posts: 450
February 19th, 2008, 08:27 PM
If the G/god thingy actually existed, why doesn't he put on a show once in a while to keep the rubes and doubters in line? I mean, his supporters say he is everywhere, but s/he never seems to be anywhere. Isn't this a problem?
You see, the media should eliminate the religion section from their newspapers. There is no room any longer for religion in public discourse. Religion like ET and UFOs has no physical evidence. It is not true. Selling papers is no longer a good enough reason.
If the G/god thingy actually existed, why doesn't he put on a show once in a while to keep the rubes and doubters in line? I mean, his supporters say he is everywhere, but s/he never seems to be anywhere. Isn't this a problem?
You see, the media should eliminate the religion section from their newspapers. There is no room any longer for religion in public discourse. Religion like ET and UFOs has no physical evidence. It is not true. Selling papers is no longer a good enough reason.
February 19th, 2008, 08:34 PM
If there is one it probably doesn't look like a San Francisco hippie and it probably couldn't care less what people on Earth think about or do. God probably wouldn't think the same way people do, and would have much bigger fish to fry than winning some guy a baseball game. Managing super novas or collisions of galaxies would be more important than forgiving some guy kneeling in a church.
If there is one it probably doesn't look like a San Francisco hippie and it probably couldn't care less what people on Earth think about or do. God probably wouldn't think the same way people do, and would have much bigger fish to fry than winning some guy a baseball game. Managing super novas or collisions of galaxies would be more important than forgiving some guy kneeling in a church.
Time Out
Posts: 360 
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
February 22nd, 2008, 03:09 AM
To boil down some salient observations;
God is man's invention.
He does as he's told (by goat herders writing "scripture" for the Book of Myths, to whatever political agenda the guy in the white dress and Gucci loafers in Rome has in mind.)
He may have been a murderous schizophrenic tyrant to the ignorant and superstitious but we have evolved him into a dear friend who with sufficient begging and cajoling will create you a miracle and extend the life of your Dodge Caravan transmission until at least payday.
He is still a useful tool for the excitable riffraff acting out for the news cameras, and after all "Allah is Great" does have nice ring to it.
He is a great boon to the economy and markets - I mean without the consumer gluttony attached to his birthday every year my stock portfolio would suffer terribly. Yours too!
And without a pliant god to fill up the day what would Red Deer rednecks do Sunday mornings? Polish the half-ton? I think not.
Best of all though, without a useful tool ,wars would become somewhat more boring; the first side to claim "God is on our side" would have to resort to somehwhat less traditional jingoism and that's always a headache.
To boil down some salient observations;
God is man's invention.
He does as he's told (by goat herders writing "scripture" for the Book of Myths, to whatever political agenda the guy in the white dress and Gucci loafers in Rome has in mind.)
He may have been a murderous schizophrenic tyrant to the ignorant and superstitious but we have evolved him into a dear friend who with sufficient begging and cajoling will create you a miracle and extend the life of your Dodge Caravan transmission until at least payday.
He is still a useful tool for the excitable riffraff acting out for the news cameras, and after all "Allah is Great" does have nice ring to it.
He is a great boon to the economy and markets - I mean without the consumer gluttony attached to his birthday every year my stock portfolio would suffer terribly. Yours too!
And without a pliant god to fill up the day what would Red Deer rednecks do Sunday mornings? Polish the half-ton? I think not.
Best of all though, without a useful tool ,wars would become somewhat more boring; the first side to claim "God is on our side" would have to resort to somehwhat less traditional jingoism and that's always a headache.
Council Member
Posts: 1,784
Location: BC
Location: BC
February 22nd, 2008, 03:42 AM
I have no need of a carrot nor a stick. My life is much better without either; god has no relevance to my life.
Yet without god everything matters. We become the true architects of our destiny. We need to work diligently for our civilization, to have children, to take care of the planet because suddenly, without god, it really does matter! There is no sky god that will rescue us and I prefer that!
If it turned out there was a god I would be sorely disappointed. My only hope, should that ever happen, is that he turns out to be a neutral creature that cares nothing about us.
I like being a man, an adult, and on my own. I wouldn't want anything to take that away or swoop in and save me!
I really think the god impulse in people is an impulse to stay irresponsible in a perpetual childhood. How sad! How pathetic!
It hardly matters if the religious would actually act as you suggest because a few years in prison would correct their behaviour; demonstrate to them that such activity isn't really in their best interest.
It's just a pity they didn't learn this truth in their formative years.
I have grown up and I'm a man now. I don't want a god; I don't want mother government; I don't want perpetual childhood - I have had my childhood and now I'm sick of it; now I want to be an adult - my own person and my own keeper!
Quoting Colpy
I think with god nothing matters. Who really is god except a creator? Why should that make any difference? Why should we even care what he thinks? Sure he made us (if he exists) but so what? This question is why the religionists must invoke the fear of hell and the reward of heaven - that is the true meaning behind god: a carrot and a stick! That's all!
Now, here is the problem.....without God, nothing matters. We are but a speck in the universe, a snap of the fingers reflects the entire existence of mankind, relatively speaking.....soooooo
I have no need of a carrot nor a stick. My life is much better without either; god has no relevance to my life.
Yet without god everything matters. We become the true architects of our destiny. We need to work diligently for our civilization, to have children, to take care of the planet because suddenly, without god, it really does matter! There is no sky god that will rescue us and I prefer that!
If it turned out there was a god I would be sorely disappointed. My only hope, should that ever happen, is that he turns out to be a neutral creature that cares nothing about us.
I like being a man, an adult, and on my own. I wouldn't want anything to take that away or swoop in and save me!
I really think the god impulse in people is an impulse to stay irresponsible in a perpetual childhood. How sad! How pathetic!
Quoting Colpy
And here you make my last point for me. Why is it that if there is no cosmic parent or "omega point" we should all start behaving like terrible children? Haven't we already had our childhoods; didn't we get over that? Don't we know by now that that doesn't serve our purpose?
Go out, kidnap that cute girl next door, shoot your boss, blow up the local phone company, be a serial killer, surrender to your darkest urges, do as thou wilt, because NOTHING matters, the rules of human society reflect.....nothing.....another snap of the fingers and all will be nothingness.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
God not only exists, he is so very necessary.....
It hardly matters if the religious would actually act as you suggest because a few years in prison would correct their behaviour; demonstrate to them that such activity isn't really in their best interest.
It's just a pity they didn't learn this truth in their formative years.
I have grown up and I'm a man now. I don't want a god; I don't want mother government; I don't want perpetual childhood - I have had my childhood and now I'm sick of it; now I want to be an adult - my own person and my own keeper!
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
February 22nd, 2008, 11:34 AM
Scott Free
Good for you!
Despite the idea that "nothing matters if there isn't a god".... all the god-beliefs that have ever been used to manipulate mankind haven't brought closure to the primitive species of mankind. How long should it take for an omnipotent all-powerful creator-being to imbue a species with the reality of their own terminal effects through their behavior on the species planet and cosmos as a whole...?
If it hasn't "taken" in several thousand years....why does anyone believe that this moral and ethical absolutism exists?
Now that's naive....
Scott Free
Good for you!
Despite the idea that "nothing matters if there isn't a god".... all the god-beliefs that have ever been used to manipulate mankind haven't brought closure to the primitive species of mankind. How long should it take for an omnipotent all-powerful creator-being to imbue a species with the reality of their own terminal effects through their behavior on the species planet and cosmos as a whole...?
If it hasn't "taken" in several thousand years....why does anyone believe that this moral and ethical absolutism exists?
Now that's naive....
