How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[sanctus]

Fr. C. G. Vaillancourt
Have Mercy on me a sinner [Luke 18:10-14]
There were two men who came to the temple, one was justifying himself saying Lord thank you for making me a good man, I pay my taxes to the Church, I give alms, I study the Law of the prophets, I am really good, but that man on the corner is a publican, he truly is a sinner, I am happy that I am not like Him. In the mean time the other man was beating his breast saying: Lord have mercy on me, I am a sinner.
Jesus said that the second man went home justified because he accepted that He was a sinner. Someone called Jesus good and He rebuked Him saying there is only one who is Good, the Father in Heaven. Therefore, we are no good, and the more we think we are, the more evil we become because we allow pride to take the better of us.
We must understand that the only reason why Christ died for us is because His goodness makes up for the evil in us. We have offended God starting with Adam to the last man, and the offence is of infinite value because it is done not to something finite but to God who is Almighty and Infinite in all His perfections. So the offence had to be paid with coin of infinite value which is Christ Our Lord.
We have an infinite debt with Him, if we aspire to live eternally. How can we pay? God knows what we are made of and He only expects us to believe in Him, to believe in His Son and to accept His Salvation. He has called us to repent and to amend our lives, to love Him and to love our neighbour.
The just man sins seven times a day, so we must indeed sin many more times than him, we have to accept that we are sinners and we must shed tears of repentance for our sins.
To appreciate the Love of God for us, we must become familiar with the Passion, agony and death of Our Lord Jesus Christ, our King. This way we will know Him more and this knowledge will grow into great love for God. At the same time we will understand the role of Mary in our Salvation, because it is through Mary that Jesus came into the world and we must realise the debt that we have to her, who is our Mother and Queen.
God is infinitely merciful [Psalm 103], but we must come to the Throne of Mercy to obtain pardon for our sins, we must truly feel sorry of having crucified Jesus on the cross and we must come to Him with humility, because without Him there is no Salvation.
He has set up his throne of Mercy in the confessional box, where He listens through the priest in order that we may humble ourselves. By confessing our sins to another man we are giving witness that Jesus is Our Saviour, and that He is still alive through the Sacraments of His Church. I will be with you until the end of times [Matthew 28:20].
The Sacrament of Reconciliation produces the fruit of peace in our souls and prepares us to be worthy to receive the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.

http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Joseph/BeHoly.htmhttp://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Joseph/BeHoly3.htmhttp://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Joseph/BeHoly5.htmhttp://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Joseph/BeHoly4.htm#tophttp://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/twgteach.htm​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It's far from clear to me what sin means, but I can tell you this with certainty: I have done my best all my life to be a good and decent man and to live a good and decent life, and the evidence strongly suggests I've made a pretty good job of it so far. And I've managed that without any belief in any god. I will never concede that I am a sinner in the sense you appear to mean. I don't share your beliefs, and probably never will, as you know, and frankly I resent being told I'm a sinner. I am not, in any way that makes sense to me.

 

[Dalreg]

Who says there is such a thing as sin. So if there isn't whats the big deal. we have nothing to get rid of. And if there is such a thing as sin why would you want to get rid of it.

 

[sanctus]

Who says there is such a thing as sin. So if there isn't whats the big deal. we have nothing to get rid of. And if there is such a thing as sin why would you want to get rid of it.

In that sin is those things which could not only cause harm to others, but to self, that is why you would not want to hold to sinful behaviour. A classic example is physical or mental abuse.

 

[sanctus]

It's far from clear to me what sin means, but I can tell you this with certainty: I have done my best all my life to be a good and decent man and to live a good and decent life, and the evidence strongly suggests I've made a pretty good job of it so far. And I've managed that without any belief in any god. I will never concede that I am a sinner in the sense you appear to mean. I don't share your beliefs, and probably never will, as you know, and frankly I resent being told I'm a sinner. I am not, in any way that makes sense to me.

I resent it too! Though even in resenting it, I know I am a sinner. Sin, in the classic defintion is anything that causes harm and removes us from unity with God. In a practical, modern interpretation, the classic defintion still works, but is enhanced with the ideology that through sinful behaviour we bring harm to ourselves and to others.

 

[TenPenny]

I fully understand why the one and only Church does not allow its priests to marry; Heaven forbid that someone who feels the need to constantly tell people they sin "more than seven times a day" would have children. Can you imagine how messed up a kid would be if they were constantly told they were sinning?

No wonder many Churches need to be closed; people don't feel the desire to be constantly told that they are sinners and evil and that only prayer can save them and put them on the right track.

 

[sanctus]

I fully understand why the one and only Church does not allow its priests to marry; Heaven forbid that someone who feels the need to constantly tell people they sin "more than seven times a day" would have children. Can you imagine how messed up a kid would be if they were constantly told they were sinning?

.

Your facts are not accurate, there are many married priests. But in one way you are correct, priests can never marry However, under some circustances and in some Rites, married men are accepted into the priesthood.

And sinfulness is not the daily lesson of the Church. Like many people, you isolate one thing and proclaim it as the "all".

 

[sanctus]

No wonder many Churches need to be closed; people don't feel the desire to be constantly told that they are sinners and evil and that only prayer can save them and put them on the right track.

Churches are being closed not due to lack of membership, but to the declining number of available priests.

 

[TenPenny]

And sinfulness is not the daily lesson of the Church. Like many people, you isolate one thing and proclaim it as the "all".

I was simply reading the quote:
The just man sins seven times a day, so we must indeed sin many more times than him, we have to accept that we are sinners and we must shed tears of repentance for our sins.

If sinfulness is NOT the daily lesson of the Church, then the Church is ignoring this seven sins per day? On the one hand we must sin many more than seven times per day, but the church doesn't actually worrry about it most of the time? So, in other words, it isn't a big deal.

In rural NB, Churches are being closed (and in some cases, torn down) because there aren't enough parisioners to go and to pay for the upkeep.

 

[sanctus]

I was simply reading the quote:
The just man sins seven times a day, so we must indeed sin many more times than him, we have to accept that we are sinners and we must shed tears of repentance for our sins.

If sinfulness is NOT the daily lesson of the Church, then the Church is ignoring this seven sins per day? On the one hand we must sin many more than seven times per day, but the church doesn't actually worrry about it most of the time? So, in other words, it isn't a big deal. .

I didn't say the Church is ignoring this teaching. I said this was not the constant teaching, or the total teaching, of the Church. Many, many other matters occupy the attention of the clergy on a daily basis.

 

[sanctus]

In rural NB, Churches are being closed (and in some cases, torn down) because there aren't enough parisioners to go and to pay for the upkeep.

Rural NB is not the whole of the Church. In Ontario, for example, parishes are often closed due to lack of available priests. The ones closed are amalgamated into other parishes. As for lack of funds to sustain the buildings, this is common. Allot of these old parishes require more money than you would believe to sustain. Parishioners traditionally feel the building is necessary, not realizing it is only an external place for the Church to meet.

 

[TenPenny]

I didn't say the Church is ignoring this teaching. I said this was not the constant teaching, or the total teaching, of the Church. Many, many other matters occupy the attention of the clergy on a daily basis.

I would hope so. I enjoy your posts, by the way. I just find it so 1960s to be told we all sin more than seven times a day. No wonder I was never Christened. When my brothers were, and the minister referred to "children conceived in sin"....well, let's just say my mother didn't go back.

I guess it all depends on what you mean, but having worked with self-proclaimed "good Catholics" who would, on the one hand, tell you about what the weekend mass was like, and on the other hand lie to you, to customers, to your boss, and have an affair with her own boss while denying it, well, let's just say that the more people profess to be "good (insert religion here)", the more I think they're hiding something.

 

[sanctus]

I would hope so. I enjoy your posts, by the way. I just find it so 1960s to be told we all sin more than seven times a day. No wonder I was never Christened. When my brothers were, and the minister referred to "children conceived in sin"....well, let's just say my mother didn't go back.
.

Sinful behaviour is not regulated to one decade, saddly. So the church must still reiterate its lessons in this area. In fact, somebody I talked to last night made the rather wry observation that sin is very much the norm these days, as compared to almost every previous decade in recent history.

I don't know if I would quite agree with that though. My thinking is the same amount of sinful behaviour existed always. It is just that now we do not hide it as well or as nearly well as we did in the past.

When I was a boy in the 1960's, for example, many things that went on in homes were not discussed in public. Child abuse, mental and physcial abuse, adultery, were all very much hidden away. I think it is better now to confront and deal with these issues.

Mind you, as one human, sometimes I do weary of the constant negative stories we are exposed to almost every single day.

 

[sanctus]

I guess it all depends on what you mean, but having worked with self-proclaimed "good Catholics" who would, on the one hand, tell you about what the weekend mass was like, and on the other hand lie to you, to customers, to your boss, and have an affair with her own boss while denying it, well, let's just say that the more people profess to be "good (insert religion here)", the more I think they're hiding something.

A constant theme of mine! One that often irritates a good many of the people I serve! I often indicate that there is vast world of difference between Christians and people who just go to Mass(church) on Sundays.

I've said it in other threads, but I believe a true Christian is one who lives his faith 24/7...in all circumstances.

 

[sanctus]

I would hope so. I enjoy your posts, by the way.

Thank you. I enjoy reading your thoughts as well!

 

[BitWhys]

You've probably figured out by now that I'm skeptical of the stasis induced by orthodox sacramentalism. For me whatever true sanctification is available is most clearly found as I approach the cross having admitted to myself that I too would have run from Gethsemane. For them to have any meaning, my participation in the sacraments must be an outward manifestation of whatever humility I can find within myself in acceptance of Christ's gifts to us. Not the church's. Christ's.

 

[sanctus]

You've probably figured out by now that I'm skeptical of the stasis induced by orthodox sacramentalism. For me whatever true sanctification is available is most clearly found as I approach the cross having admitted to myself that I too would have run from Gethsemane. For them to have any meaning, my participation in the sacraments must be an outward manifestation of whatever humility I can find within myself in acceptance of Christ's gifts to us. Not the church's. Christ's.

I appreciate what you wrote. Might I point out though that the Church was the avenue with which Christ wanted us to receive the Sacraments.

 

[BitWhys]

...Might I point out though that the Church was the avenue with which Christ wanted us to receive the Sacraments.

Absolutely. Its not like I'm some sort of spiritual anarchist but neither do I accept that Christ's body and the results of our efforts to maintain it are one and the same thing. The Church is a means, not an end in itself.

 

[sanctus]

Absolutely. Its not like I'm some sort of spiritual anarchist but neither do I accept that Christ's body and the results of our efforts to maintain it are one and the same thing. The Church is a means, not an end in itself.

How very perceptive of you!
This is what Christ intended. The Church, as the holder of the faith and dispenser of the Sacraments, is the normative road we take to end up at Christ!

 

[BitWhys]

How very perceptive of you!...

Thanks, but I've got to confess I got more than a little help from Bonhoeffer.

"normative road". sounds almost Hegelian. any idea who coined it?