Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary

[sanctus]

<DIV>


Immaculate Conception is the title by which we recognize that the Blessed Virgin Mary by a special grace of God was exempt of original sin. She announced herself with this title to Bernadette Soubiruous in the Apparitions of Lourdes in 1858.
The authenticity of these apparitions has been verified by the authority of the Church in view of the great number of miracles that have taken place in the Sanctuary of Lourdes.
The Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined and proclaimed by Pope Pius IX on the 8th of December 1854/
It is very dignifying for Mary to be the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God. She is the new Eve, created without a stain of sin to be the Mother of Jesus and of all the children of God.
We all have inherited the original sin from Eve, the mother of all the children of Adam. Since Jesus is the new Adam, her mother was created with this unique privilege of being free from original sin.

<FONT size=4>Our Lord Jesus Christ consecrated us as children of Mary in the person of John the beloved apostle when he was in agony on the cross. <SPAN lang=ES-CL style="mso-ansi-language: ES-CL">To John He said, there is your mother, to Mary He said as He gave her all the children of God: here is your son.

 

[hermanntrude]

is thisapointfor debate or justa newsflash? maybe you have something interestingto say?

 

[sanctus]

is thisapointfor debate or justa newsflash? maybe you have something interestingto say?

Just a sharing, must everything be a debate? Or do not many of the posts here just reflect information sharing for those who are interested? This was posted under the sub-topic "Christian Discussion", so one would assume if one was not interested in Christian discussions, one would not read things posted under this heading.

 

[Curiosity]

Aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhh

"Immaculate Conception" as opposed to what? Filthy conception?

This is a piece of literature humanity could do without.

Original sin? According to who?

Sanctus - do you really believe in this? How can perpetuating this "sin stuff" benefit any people?

We humans are frail in many ways - but we are also given the capacity to love one another.

Why does the church concentrate on our sins rather than congratulate our ability to love?

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus - do you really believe in this? How can perpetuating this "sin stuff" benefit any people?

Why does the church concentrate on our sins rather than congratulate our ability to love?

Of course I really believe in this, in fact I am a rather devout Marian.

The Church does not concentrate on our sins, it concentrates on our salvation in Christ.

 

[Curiosity]

Sanctus

I apologize - I personalized my questions - of course you believe it or you wouldn't put it up for discussion.

Salvation? I believe that being born into this world was immediate salvation - the gift of life for me is enough.

When my life is over - that will be enough.

The church and its mysteries is a mystery to me - how can it help humans if it deals in the impossible.

It also seems to formulate most of its message and teaching through trials and adversities instead of celebrating our lives.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus

I apologize - I personalized my questions - of course you believe it or you wouldn't put it up for discussion.

Salvation? I believe that being born into this world was immediate salvation - the gift of life for me is enough.

When my life is over - that will be enough.

The church and its mysteries is a mystery to me - how can it help humans if it deals in the impossible.

It also seems to formulate most of its message and teaching through trials and adversities instead of celebrating our lives.

No problem. You know, of all the people I have encountered who have critiques of the Church or the faith, all the discussions and complaints; yours is the one most thought-provoking question I have yet encountered! I shall have to ponder on how to provide a feeble attempt at a satisfactory answer for you, if you'll allow me the time to do so. I must say, I find your comments quite succinct. Thank you.

 

[Curiosity]

Well Done Sanctus - win me over with a compliment!!!

Thank you for that - and I do come off as angry because for all the years I "followed" my faith in toto - never questioning - I find that in the major issues of humanity the church is letting its people down.

In this time of war yet again, turmoil, chaos, and general departure from faiths by people of all nationalities, I wonder why those who are devoted to comfort and offering the succor of faith are not sorting out their own lack of partnership for us. It is as if the world has passed beyond the church.

I am not angry with you personally - but you have made yourself an available target for my grumpiness and I am sorry.

Do you know Piddingworth at Free Dominion? Another priest - way more stuffy than you. I doubt he would respond to one sentence of my whining. Curio

 

[thomaska]

Does Roman Catholic dogma assert that Mary stayed a virgin for her whole life or just until after JC was born? Because I have serious doubts that Joseph would have put up with getting no "lovin" for the entire marriage.

 

[TenPenny]

Just a sharing, must everything be a debate? Or do not many of the posts here just reflect information sharing for those who are interested? This was posted under the sub-topic "Christian Discussion", so one would assume if one was not interested in Christian discussions, one would not read things posted under this heading.

It's an interesting point, because there are a lot of people who run around claiming to be Good Christians, who don't understand what the Immaculate Conception refers to; most think it has to do with Mary's pregnancy with Jesus, as opposed to Mary herself.

Myself, I'm one of the Sons of Martha.

 

[sanctus]

Does Roman Catholic dogma assert that Mary stayed a virgin for her whole life or just until after JC was born? Because I have serious doubts that Joseph would have put up with getting no "lovin" for the entire marriage.

Yes, the Blessed Virgin Mary remained a virgin all her natural life.

 

[CDNBear]

Yes, the Blessed Virgin Mary remained a virgin all her natural life.

So if some woman from T dot, gets pregnant from artificial insemination, is that the same thing?

 

[sanctus]

Well Done Sanctus - win me over with a compliment!!!

Thank you for that - and I do come off as angry because for all the years I "followed" my faith in toto - never questioning - I find that in the major issues of humanity the church is letting its people down.

In this time of war yet again, turmoil, chaos, and general departure from faiths by people of all nationalities, I wonder why those who are devoted to comfort and offering the succor of faith are not sorting out their own lack of partnership for us. It is as if the world has passed beyond the church.

I am not angry with you personally - but you have made yourself an available target for my grumpiness and I am sorry.

Do you know Piddingworth at Free Dominion? Another priest - way more stuffy than you. I doubt he would respond to one sentence of my whining. Curio

No, I do not know the gentleman or the site you refer to.

I have thought of your statement on and off for most of the day.I am saddened that you, or anyone, would think the Church not present in the struggles of humanity. I do not think the church has left the people, I think the people are leaving the Church. In other words, perhaps the message the Church teaches is not popular, and so some would rather define themselves apart from the Gospel.We find that people are now approaching the Church expecting it to relent of its doctrines in order to accomodate the secular world, not understanding that the Church is not some sort of business that would update its beliefs every time the year ticks over.

We represent, in a collective sense, God, and in doing so feel we must remain true to the unaltered teachings of the faith as handed down to us by those who have come before us. In other words, what was right or wrong, in matters of faith and doctrine, must remain consistent if we believe that God's message is consistent.

I do know, and surely you are not required to believe, that the Church in so many thousands upon thousands of different ways does and is replying to the needs of the people all over the world. If you could only see the numbers of priests and nuns and monks involved with missions, the poor, street ministries to the homeless, the food banks, hospital chaplaincy, military chaplains, etc.,etc. In all ways, the un-dramatic ways, the Church is present.Maybe people are looking for grand gestures of its presence or signs of togetherness with the people? A "parting of the seas"?

It is my humble experience that most people who are dismayed at the apparent lack of miracles in the Church place high expectations on it? I really do not have one concrete answer for you.

I ache that you feel this is so.I wish I could show you in how many ways the Church is responding to the people. But I suspect you will not believe me, and that is your preogative. I expect you to disagree with what I just wrote, and I am sorry I was not able to convey myself better.

 

[sanctus]

So if some woman from T dot, gets pregnant from artificial insemination, is that the same thing?

Nf course not, and I suspect you knew that already

 

[CDNBear]

Nf course not, and I suspect you knew that already

No actually I didn't, but I would love to hear your reasons why. Is it not the same thing? No sex, just baby.

Have you given much thought to the fact that the translation of "maiden" and "virgin" may have played a roll in this error of the Christian Church?

 

[the caracal kid]

hey bear, I showed sanctus the translation error of virgin in another thread. He didn't give an answer.

Sanctus, you can't really claim the church does not change! It has routinely added teachings, reinterpreted texts, etc. The church, as an organization, has indeed adapted itself to aid in its survival. Crap, just look at how pagan it is. That is not a coincidence.

 

[Curiosity]

Dear Sanctus - thank you for answering my earlier remarks

It is only my personal opinion that the church has remained steadfastly out of touch with our human evolutionary process and what we have learned through science and intellect which is also god-given but unappreciated by the church, and in some cases unacknowledged as valid.

It is my opinion to perpetuate these original stories of sin - and immaculata - all having to do with sex - and the need for the servants within the church to remain celibate - has instituted a never-ending problem for the church itself - that the act of procreation - of our survival - has become sinful in the eyes of the church - a church which demands its servants be free of this sin - makes me wonder why it is so tied up to the act of creation - which of necessity we humans must perform to continue our species.

The missions and all the wonderful charities churches around the world do cannot be demeaned and I will not go there - I truly appreciate the work the church does, however I want to add again another opinion of mine - which is mine alone and I don't expect you to agree with it - but the teachings of the church continue to keep people in submission for the work of these missions to be carried out - I do not see within the church hierarchy any missions uplifing mankind (and womankind) to self-actualization and the reality they can be independent and seek improvement for themselves, on their own, without the need for church interference at all....and can still be good parishioners, acceptable members of the parish.

The church in the majority seeks to keep people in need - primarily by its demands of large families and again its unrealistic lessons taught to couples about child-bearing - not advising them to stay within certain parameters where all needs can be met properly, but coaching them to have large numbers of children. It is a mixed message and often I wonder what the church actually wants of its people and its servants within. I conclude - "the impossible".

In sum - the Roman Church is far too concerned with matters of sex rather than one's soul.

 

[the caracal kid]

indeed curiosity. Christianity is a device of control and dominance. That is what it was designed to do, and that is what it does very well.

 

[sanctus]

hey bear, I showed sanctus the translation error of virgin in another thread. He didn't give an answer.

Sanctus, you can't really claim the church does not change! It has routinely added teachings, reinterpreted texts, etc. The church, as an organization, has indeed adapted itself to aid in its survival. Crap, just look at how pagan it is. That is not a coincidence.

1. There is no translation error.

2. Well, you would certainly know more about our doctrines than I do, apparentlySo why would you care for me to argue the point?

 

[sanctus]

Dear Sanctus - thank you for answering my earlier remarks

It is only my personal opinion that the church has remained steadfastly out of touch with our human evolutionary process and what we have learned through science and intellect which is also god-given but unappreciated by the church, and in some cases unacknowledged as valid.l.

You're probably right in some areas, I agree. but I would get, if you will allow, somewhat intellectual in the sense that saying there is, in my eyes, a difference between the Church and the men and women of the Church.For me, the church is always correct and divine, for i believe in the doctrine that it comes from God. In its ministires and its Sacraments, it remains ever pure and Holy. In the activities of some of its members..wellll..