I'm conflicted about the Bible. Will you discuss it with me?


Spade
#61
I don't think he considers Catholics are Christians. Too many burnings at the stake.
Last edited by Spade; Feb 8th, 2012 at 05:57 PM..
 
JLM
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Indeed, exactly the point, those old rules are no longer relevant, if they ever were, but people continue to cherry pick them to support a position when they have no legitimate arguments. I've heard local Christian people argue, for example, that the Harry Potter books not be permitted in school libraries on the strength of Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," to which I responded with the hope that they never have a stubborn and rebellious son (perhaps one who reads the forbidden books anyway), as there's a passage in Deuteronomy 21 that requires the men of the city to stone him to death.


Whoa, slow down- you can't tar EVERYTHING with the same brush. Things like honesty, reliability, generosity, kindness don't go out of style!
 
Spade
#63
Many of the Bible's "rules" were borrowed from Hammurabi's Code.
Internet History Sourcebooks
 
Dexter Sinister
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Those old "rules" were thrown out by Christs new covenant.

So I've heard, the case is most strongly made in Romans and Galatians. The opposite case can be made from NT scripture too. Matthew 5:18, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Luke 16:17,"It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Interestingly, the verse right before that latter one, Luke 16:16, makes the opposite claim, that the laws applied only up until the time of John the Baptist.
 
Spade
#65
They weren't grandfathered?
 
Dexter Sinister
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Whoa, slow down- you can't tar EVERYTHING with the same brush. Things like honesty, reliability, generosity, kindness don't go out of style!

At least they shouldn't, but looking around at the state of the world lately I have to wonder a bit. But we don't get those from the Bible anyway, if those things weren't innate in human nature we wouldn't have lasted long enough for the Bible to be written, evolution would have taken us out long ago. Religious justifications for ethics and morality are just post facto rationalizations for existing conditions, not original ideas.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

They weren't grandfathered?

You can cherry pick scripture to make the case either way.
 
Spade
+1
#67
Prefer picking saskatoons.
 
damngrumpy
+2
#68
The flood story was also borrowed from the walls of Babylon that happened centuries before.
There were also previous civilizations that had fire stories and so on. The spiritual side of
people and the actual side of people are different.
The fact is religion has become and instrument of the State. It is a tool to keep people in line.
Even gangsters of old Italy believed in God and what might happen if they went too far.
Another thing that I have thought about is there are many really bad bastards out there that
do believe in God and if they didn't we would not be safe to sleep in our beds.
Stories, and legends were the illustrations of Christ's teaching. After all many who followed him
could neither read nor write so publishing texts for the masses would be pointless, and
unworkable. The core beliefs of honesty and so on are not limited to believers or any one
religion. They are the articles of a social contract we are supposed to share with one another.
I know many who don't believe in God who are very moral and honest and they would bend
over backwards to help anyone.
I also know some devout Christian folk who I wouldn't trust alone to park my car.
Religion is a personal thing, do I believe every world as fundamental fact? No Because it was
not meant to be. Do I believe there are some valuable things to be learned in the Bible? Yes
but one should not live by the book alone, live is to be lived not read about.
 
Ron in Regina
+1
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

I still find it odd that I haven't been swarmed by a mob of Christians yet. It's actually a little disappointing. I find it more interesting to engage people who believe in something than those who believe in...well...nothing.

Agnostics are generally torn between believing and not believing. The jury is still out for them. But true agnostics can't remain agnostics for long. To do so would draw into question their ability to reason. We inevitably "lean" one way or the other when it comes to a belief in a higher power. You would have to practically be a mental zombie not to migrate to one school of thought or the other.

Who is "We?" Would We actually be you?

Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

Agnostics are generally torn between believing and not believing. The jury is still out for them. But true agnostics can't remain agnostics for long. To do so would draw into question their ability to reason. You would have to practically be a mental zombie not to migrate to one school of thought or the other.

Torn? True agnostics can't remain agnostics for long? If they couldn't, then
maybe they weren't true agnostics, always questing and open to knowledge
from all directions, if they have to stop questing and being open to knowledge
after a short time. I'll have to think about that for another 40yrs or so and get
back to you on that one, as I haven't settled on an answer just yet.

Question their ability to reason (?) and they must be mental zombies (?) not to
button themselves down to one sect of one religion or belief system, if any at all?
No bias there Brother. I'm laughing with you, not at you. That was good.
 
L Gilbert
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

Agnostics are generally torn between believing and not believing. The jury is still out for them. But true agnostics can't remain agnostics for long.

Nope. My wife is agnostic and has been for some 30+ years. She's not torn, she's just undecided. That leaves her extremely open-minded and waiting for something conclusive.
Quote:

To do so would draw into question their ability to reason.

How so?
Quote:

We inevitably "lean" one way or the other when it comes to a belief in a higher power. You would have to practically be a mental zombie not to migrate to one school of thought or the other.

My wife does tend to lean to the atheist side but again, she is simply uncertain about conclusions.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/

agnosticism - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

I'm atheist. There is exactly 0 proof of gods. In the absence of proof, I lean on probabilities, and the probabilities of there being gods is extremely small and diminishing even further in the face of science. Oh, and BTW, I do believe in lots of things, just not the things that religions are based upon.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Feb 8th, 2012 at 08:53 PM..
 
karrie
+1
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

I still find it odd that I haven't been swarmed by a mob of Christians yet. It's actually a little disappointing. I find it more interesting to engage people who believe in something than those who believe in...well...nothing.


What would you like us Christians to say to you exactly?
 
Conflicted
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

What would you like us Christians to say to you exactly?

Well, you could begin by responding to my views regarding Creation, Hell, Christ, etc. If you think I'm wrong about them, explain.
 
JLM
+2
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

What would you like us Christians to say to you exactly?

Excellent point Karrie, I consider myself Christian in that I TRY to do unto other as I would have done unto me. Now what I would say to them is he/she/they should mind their own business, keep their interpretations to themselves (after they've voiced it once, as no one likes to see sawdust resawn) and don't try to judge other peoples religious persuasions. And DON'T bother explaining the Bible to us, I had it explained to me 60 years ago.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#74
Creation? The universe did it.
 
JLM
+1
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

Well, you could begin by responding to my views regarding Creation, Hell, Christ, etc. If you think I'm wrong about them, explain.

And WHY would your views warrant explanation from us who DON'T give a rat's ***?
 
DaSleeper
+1
#76
Religion is the favorite subject of both Atheists and religious nuts...(go figure)

And I have yet to see either one change their view in a forum.....

Both keep dancing the same endless dance which seems silly to those of us that take faith as a rather personal thing
 
JLM
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Religion is the favorite subject of both Atheists and religious nuts...(go figure)

And I have yet to see either one change their view in a forum.....

Both keep dancing the same endless dance which seems silly to those of us that take faith as a rather personal thing

There is that saying that "People who do things over and over the same way and expect different results are idiots"
 
gerryh
+1
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

Well, you could begin by responding to my views regarding Creation, Hell, Christ, etc. If you think I'm wrong about them, explain.

I did, and you ignored. So, I have you now placed you in the whining troll catagory.
 
MHz
+1
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I did, and you ignored. So, I have you now placed you in the whining troll catagory.

Just for my own information, how many people do you meet that do not end up there? (out of every 10)
 
gerryh
+2
#80
You're not in the same one mhz.
 
Ron in Regina
+1
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

You're not in the same one mhz.


For some reason, visions of Santa Claus are going through my mind now...

 
Spade
+1
#82
Four out of five on the list are trolls.
 
In Between Man
+1
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by ConflictedView Post

Greetings everyone. I found this forum through a web search. I'm brand new here. I would describe myself as a "believer", but I'd be reluctant to call myself a "Christian." There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.

I would welcome an honest, civil discussion of the Bible in a general sense. I'm not as interested in doctrinal views as I am in general issues of faith and interpretation. If you'd be willing to engage in an open dialogue of this nature, please respond with your comments.

Thank you.

This is the wrong place to seek answers about the bible friend. The atheists, false-Christians and pagans only want to lead you down a path to nowhere. Since there is not one contradiction in the bible, you shouldn't have any problem "reconciling" beliefs. If you have a hard time believing for example that hell is a physical place, then it's only because you "don't want" there to be a hell, so it's easier and more convenient to hang onto to the intellectual obstacle "why would God send people to eternal punishment?".

It sounds like God is doing his work of salvation in you, and he's "knocking on the door of your heart". Answer the knock. Repent, trust Jesus for forgiveness, ask him to fill your life, find a full gospel church to attend, read your bible daily and obey it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Atheism is not a belief system

It's a belief system. To deny one set of beliefs is to affirm another.
 
Dexter Sinister
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

It's a belief system. To deny one set of beliefs is to affirm another.

Sure, and bald is a hair style and not golfing is a hobby. Elementary logic seems to elude you: the absence of A doesn't necessarily imply the presence of B.
 
In Between Man
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Sure, and bald is a hair style and not golfing is a hobby. Elementary logic seems to elude you: the absence of A doesn't necessarily imply the presence of B.

How could it not be a belief system? By definition a belief is a psychological state in which an individual holds a premise to be true. Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe atheism is true?
 
JLM
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

How could it not be a belief system? By definition a belief is a psychological state in which an individual holds a premise to be true. Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe atheism is true?

Now we are getting into semantics!
 
lone wolf
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Now we are getting into semantics!

Sure.... It's called gospel according to....
Last edited by lone wolf; Feb 11th, 2012 at 08:21 PM..Reason: plain truth
 
Dexter Sinister
#88
Yes, word games. I'm saying I believe theism to be false, which does not necessarily mean I believe atheism to be true (although I do), there are other alternatives, like deism. Your error is in calling it a belief system, which is akin to calling disbelieving in unicorns a belief system. It's not, it's just a rejection of a particular claim, e.g. the claim that unicorns exist, or the claim that there's a supernatural entity that has some interest in us. It may be part of a particular world view, but it's not in itself a system of beliefs, it's a rejection of one.
 
DaSleeper
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Now we are getting into semantics!

That's nomal when you get into Ateism<I>Religion...
 
TenPenny
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

How could it not be a belief system? By definition a belief is a psychological state in which an individual holds a premise to be true. Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe atheism is true?

What do you call it when you hold a belief to NOT be true?
 

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