I'm conflicted about the Bible. Will you discuss it with me?

Conflicted

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Feb 6, 2012
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Greetings everyone. I found this forum through a web search. I'm brand new here. I would describe myself as a "believer", but I'd be reluctant to call myself a "Christian." There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.

I would welcome an honest, civil discussion of the Bible in a general sense. I'm not as interested in doctrinal views as I am in general issues of faith and interpretation. If you'd be willing to engage in an open dialogue of this nature, please respond with your comments.

Thank you.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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Greetings everyone. I found this forum through a web search. I'm brand new here. I would describe myself as a "believer", but I'd be reluctant to call myself a "Christian." There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.

I would welcome an honest, civil discussion of the Bible in a general sense. I'm not as interested in doctrinal views as I am in general issues of faith and interpretation. If you'd be willing to engage in an open dialogue of this nature, please respond with your comments.

Thank you.

I tend to simply say, "I'm spiritual, not religioius." For any zealot at either end of the spectrum, atheist or evangelical Christian, you're likely to be told that you have to either embrace the Bible 100%, or discard it 100%. But for me, life is about seeking that which makes us better people, which helps us understand life, love, the world, and our own journeys, better. And the Bible does contain plenty that can help you do that. Needless to say, I am fully capable of taking it with a grain of salt, taking what helps me and leaving the rest. I think to do so makes one much less 'conflicted' than the rest of the world ;)
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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I tend to simply say, "I'm spiritual, not religioius." For any zealot at either end of the spectrum, atheist or evangelical Christian, you're likely to be told that you have to either embrace the Bible 100%, or discard it 100%. But for me, life is about seeking that which makes us better people, which helps us understand life, love, the world, and our own journeys, better. And the Bible does contain plenty that can help you do that. Needless to say, I am fully capable of taking it with a grain of salt, taking what helps me and leaving the rest. I think to do so makes one much less 'conflicted' than the rest of the world ;)

As is any other book such as the Qu'ran, Moby Dick, How to Make Friends and Influence People, and The Diviners.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.
Hardly a surprise, it's a very large and complex book. I presume you mean there are things in it you can't reconcile with other things in it, and/or things in it you can't reconcile with other things you believe to be true apart from the Bible. That's a problem only if you expect everything in the book to be true, and there are some here who do.

There are things in the Bible that are good and true and bad and false and just plain silly, exactly what's to be expected from a book written by many different people over many generations long before we'd discovered much about what's really going on and how nature operates. Do what everybody else does, pick the bits you like, that make sense to you, never mind the bits you can't reconcile. A caution though: this is not a Christian forum, and people will tell you exactly what they think. As you identify yourself as a believer, I can guarantee that some of it you're not going to like.
 

Conflicted

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Feb 6, 2012
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Hardly a surprise, it's a very large and complex book. I presume you mean there are things in it you can't reconcile with other things in it, and/or things in it you can't reconcile with other things you believe to be true apart from the Bible. That's a problem only if you expect everything in the book to be true, and there are some here who do.

There are things in the Bible that are good and true and bad and false and just plain silly, exactly what's to be expected from a book written by many different people over many generations long before we'd discovered much about what's really going on and how nature operates. Do what everybody else does, pick the bits you like, that make sense to you, never mind the bits you can't reconcile. A caution though: this is not a Christian forum, and people will tell you exactly what they think. As you identify yourself as a believer, I can guarantee that some of it you're not going to like.
Thanks for the replies. At least I know someone is listening. Here's a partial breakdown of what I've concluded thus far in my life:

1. I do believe in a creator. I don't think we are the product of evolution.
2. I do believe there is something extraordinary about the Bible and the message it contains. I believe it contains both literal and figurative dialogue, and this is where I'm most conflicted.
3. I don't believe in a literal Hell, but I do believe in divine justice.

These are conclusions I have arrived at through my own study of the Bible, my life experiences and reflective thoughts. I offer this to begin the conversation.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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1) possibly a creator caused this all to come into being. That it has anything to do with us is a matter of speculation. When you consider the vastness of the Universe and the millions of planets that might be capable of supporting life, why do you think we are so special that this creator would be interested in us? Personally, I believe Mark Twain when he said "and man created god in his own image."

2) the bible is an extraordinary book. It has dozens of authors, it is full of contradictions, truths, historical inaccuracies, fallacies and down right ridiculous claims which would account for most of your confusion.

3) Hell is here on Earth in this lifetime. Hell is when you are not happy and are confused. There is only one divine law at work in the Universe, IMHO, and that is "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - the law of karma. Whatever you put out into the world is what you get back, or do unto others/love thy neighbour as thyself.

You will never get spiritual nourishment from a book, a whole library of books or from any self appointed "teacher" or guru. Any teacher worthy of your attention is one that will tell you to go away and find the truth on your own. Because it is in your life experiences that the truth will be revealed to you. And you will get more truth out of watching The Matrix than you ever will reading the bible. Personal revelation does not require adherence to any religious dogma or book or sect.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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1. I do believe in a creator. I don't think we are the product of evolution.
There's nothing necessarily irreconcilable in the view that a creator also created the process of evolution in order to create us, unless you insist on a literal view of the Genesis story. But it's a long way from that deistic view to the theistic view that the creator is a personal deity involved in our daily lives. In fact you can't get from the former to the latter without having to assume a whole lot of other things on the basis of no evidence at all. And somebody should tell you, and it might as well be me, that evolution is a fact, we ARE a product of evolution, the evidence is so overwhelming that no other informed conclusion is possible.
 

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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Be prepared to be further conflicted some are fervent born again believers and washed in
the blood. Others are spiritual, some are skeptical and some are non believers. Then there
are those who if pushed might deny their own existence.
Put on your mental sandals and take a chance welcome aboard
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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These are conclusions I have arrived at through my own study of the Bible, my life experiences and reflective thoughts. I offer this to begin the conversation.
I think you'll be well repaid by adding to that list. Read about the Bible too, not just the Bible itself, there's lots of material around, textual analysis, historical studies, critical reviews, etc. Some names to look for: Bart Ehrman, John Shelby Spong, Tom Harpur, Jonathon Kirsch, Elaine Pagels. There's also a very good two volume set called Asimov's Guide to the Bible, by Isaac Asimov, long out of print now but you might be able to find it at a major library or a second hand book shop. It provides the historical, cultural, and geographic context for all of it.
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Greetings everyone. I found this forum through a web search. I'm brand new here. I would describe myself as a "believer", but I'd be reluctant to call myself a "Christian." There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.

I would welcome an honest, civil discussion of the Bible in a general sense. I'm not as interested in doctrinal views as I am in general issues of faith and interpretation. If you'd be willing to engage in an open dialogue of this nature, please respond with your comments.

Thank you.
i'm a believer. i believe that the bible might be true.;)
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Greetings everyone. I found this forum through a web search. I'm brand new here. I would describe myself as a "believer", but I'd be reluctant to call myself a "Christian." There are things in the Bible that I cannot help but believe. However, there are also things in the Bible that I simply cannot reconcile.

I would welcome an honest, civil discussion of the Bible in a general sense. I'm not as interested in doctrinal views as I am in general issues of faith and interpretation. If you'd be willing to engage in an open dialogue of this nature, please respond with your comments.

Thank you.

Parts of the Bible make for good reading, but I don't think "believing" or "not believing" is applicable. Things happen sometimes that the witnesses aren't sophisticated enough to really relate it as it actually happened. Maybe some of it was written in a way that uneducated people could understand. Some it maybe be allegory or metaphors. So to take a sentence or verse and ram it down someones throat is just plain silly. Were David and Goliath actual men who got into battle as described or was David just a symbol for humble, meek, patient and intelligent and Goliath just a symbol for cruel, formidable and stupid?
 

Conflicted

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Feb 6, 2012
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Well, I've been through several stages in my life. I spent a few years in a protestant church, both as a child and as an adult. I've run the gamut from being a zealous evangelical to an extremely bitter atheist. At this point in my life, I'm just a conflicted believer.

I can't prove that God even exists. No one can. It's a faith thing. However, when I look at the precision of the universe and the splendor of nature, I see the signature of a creator. That may not be enough for some of you, but it is for me.

I have mixed feelings about evolution. A caterpillar evolves into a butterfly. Is that a microcosm of evolution? Or a grand display of a creator's whim? I simply don't know.

In spite of its contradictions, mysteries and imaginative constructs, I find the Bible to be a profoundly fascinating exposition. I mentioned previously that I don't believe in a literal hell. My intellect will not allow me to reconcile a literal hell with Christianity. Thus, just one example of my "conflicted" positions.

I have no agenda. My intent is to let this conversation take its own course, so I'll just leave it there for the moment.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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I have mixed feelings about evolution. A caterpillar evolves into a butterfly. Is that a microcosm of evolution? Or a grand display of a creator's whim? I simply don't know.

No. Evolution does not refer to the change undertaken by a single organism in its lifetime. That is called metamorphosis.

Evolution refers to the genetic changes that happen to entire populations over centuries.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I can't prove that God even exists. No one can. It's a faith thing. However, when I look at the precision of the universe and the splendor of nature, I see the signature of a creator. That may not be enough for some of you, but it is for me.

.

THAT, I fully agree with! :smile:
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Evolution refers to the genetic changes that happen to entire populations over centuries.
I would have classified that as adaptation, one species adapting to minor changes to their habitat. Evolution would be saying there is 'one flesh' and all the ones in the list below came from 'one source' rather than each 'type of flesh' adapted side-by-side with their environment.

1Co:15:39:
All flesh is not the same flesh:
but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes,
and another of birds.

If Genesis 1 say the other flesh was made 'after it's kind' then the 4 beasts around the throne in Re:4 could be the original source and that would support all flesh coming from one, even to the point that 'primates' are the ones who have the 'face of a man' in that description. The Bible allows for adaption and changes like that, it does nor allow for one, two, and three toed flesh to interact and produce reproducing off-spring.

1. I do believe in a creator. I don't think we are the product of evolution.
2. I do believe there is something extraordinary about the Bible and the message it contains. I believe it contains both literal and figurative dialogue, and this is where I'm most conflicted.
3. I don't believe in a literal Hell, but I do believe in divine justice.
1. already done
2. That might be shown by the two history lessons in Genesis 1 and 2. One covers the path the 'dust' part of us and the other references the path the breath of life took for us to become a living being.
The 'message' the Bible contains can be a long or short story. The short one means only considering what the words in Genesis 1,2 and 3 say and blend them in with the words in Revelation 20, 21, and 22 say. Everything else fits 'somewhere in between' and the fastest way to sort it out is to decide what passages apply to the bruises in Genesis 3:15. That cuts the 'chore' in half and the task is made easier because the bruise to the heel has prophecy and fulfillment in the Bible. The bruise to Satan's head is mostly prophecy.
3.The ones sent there are the ones dressed for war on the day He returns, Satan's idea so they spent their time in hell reminding him that he was also deceiving himself most of all. Those same men end up alive in the new earth but their path is also the 'roughest one' available'.

Fortunately the majority view here doesn't make it the 'most accurate one'.