You should obey God’s commandments

You should obey God’s commandments

dattaswami

#1Jul 24th, 2011

You should obey God’s commandments
Unless you obey God’s commandment God is not pleased with you

Guru Purnima indicates the divine guide, who guides not only the spiritual life but also the materialistic life. In fact, the spiritual life is always mixed with the materialistic life. Pleasing God is spiritual life. The materialistic life is not to annoy God by not going against His commands (Dharma) given in the divine scripture (Veda). First, you must not annoy God. Then only, you can please God. Following justice and opposing injustice will satisfy God. Unless you satisfy God through dharma or pravrutti, you cannot please God by nivrutti. The Gita is the scripture of nivrutti, but it is related to pravrutti also in getting the justified share of kingdom to Pandavas from Dhrutarashtra, who is also internally blind by the love to his son. In fact, Dhrutarashtra criticized Krishna not to poke His [Krishna’s] nose in the affair of property of his family. But, Krishna is God and God gives the punishment for every sinful action of every human being. There can be no private affair, which can be avoided from God.

Krishna preached Gopikas by stealing their clothes that there is no private part even in the body that avoids God. Any amount of devotion is waste, if dharma preached by God is not followed. Ravana was the greatest devotee but was not blessed by God, since he did not follow justice. Therefore, pravrutti and nivrutti are inseparable. Hence, the human incarnation of God, which is the complete guide in pravrutti and nivrutti, should be understood on this occasion of Guru Purnima. You cannot please anyone by any means after disobeying Him. If you disobey justice (pravrutti) preached by God through the divine scripture in this materialistic world, you cannot please God in the spiritual world through any path like meditation, worship, knowledge, service etc. Obedience to God in pravrutti is the first step through which only, you can reach the second step, which is pleasing God in the nivrutti. If you have real love to God, you will not disobey Him in any subject.

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Universal Spirituality for World Peace

lone wolf

#2 Top Rated Post

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

You should obey the Forum's commandments. Read your wall.

taxslave

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

You and your god can both go piss up a rope.

petros

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

Which translation should I follow?

WLDB

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

I do not take orders from imaginary beings.

dattaswami

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

I do not take orders from imaginary beings.

Sins are not cancelled by doing mere good social works

The sins are not cancelled by doing mere good social works. You will have the separate results for the good and bad deeds. Pandavas did lot of good works but did very few bad works. The lot of good did not cancel their little bad sin. The Pandavas went to hell for a short time to suffer for the little sins and then went to heaven to enjoy the good results for a long time. This means that the good works, which will have separate good results, cannot cancel the sin. Hanuman advises Ravana not to do injustice and says that good deeds like penance cannot cancel the sins, since both have to be enjoyed separately (Praptam Dharma Phalam…Adharmasyapiha Phalam….Ramayana). But the devotion to God can cancel the sin because God will suffer for the sins of His devotees (Ahamtva ...Gita). Gita says “Apchet….Bhajatemam”, which means that even the greatest sinner is protected if he serves the God.

Some preachers take this verse and apply to the case of a theoretical devotee who sings songs etc. The verb Bhaja means service and not songs (Bhaja Sevayam…). This verb has also another meaning of attainment (Bhaja Prapane). You cannot say that the devotee will be saved if he attains God. Ravana reached Kailasa and stood near God and this is attainment of God, which could not save him.

china

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 24th, 2011

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MR. What do you mean by god or God or whatever and what commandments are you talking about .Do you mean that you have read something about some commandments and you have a certain knowledge and (your own) interpretation about these commandments .Like how do you get those commandments .Is that god ever gonna come to Canada ? and show these commandments ??.....what's wrong with loving your neighbor like your self ?just wondering .

dattaswami

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by china

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MR. What do you mean by god or God or whatever and what commandments are you talking about .Do you mean that you have read something about some commandments and you have a certain knowledge and (your own) interpretation about these commandments .Like how do you get those commandments .Is that god ever gonna come to Canada ? and show these commandments ??.....what's wrong with loving your neighbor like your self ?just wondering .

Justice is the divine system created by God, to maintain the balance of the society so that the spiritual aspirants can do their efforts with peace. The justice is related to your colleague soul. The essence of Dharma is not to hurt anyone in anyway because the law and order is in the hands of God. Atleast you should not harm any devotee. But punishing the students for their welfare is exempted because the welfare of the student is the main aim.

You may hurt your colleague souls in several ways. All these ways are injustice and immorality. For example by corruption you are hurting your colleague souls. Atleast you are not exempting the poor and devoted people. If you do corruption in the case of unjust rich people, you should spend it for divine purpose. If you spend it for yourself or for your family, all of you will be completely destroyed.

Dexter Sinister

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by dattaswami

You should obey God’s commandments

If anybody could present a good case for knowing what they are, I might, and if I believed god exists I might, but I've never seen such a presentation and I don't believe he exists anyway. All this stuff is human invention as far as I can tell, I know of no reason to think any of it's true and plenty of reasons to think it's not, which to my mind makes you just another of the deluded billions who've fallen for this unsubstantiated nonsense. You've offered no evidence, you just make sweeping claims and generalizations without offering any reason to believe them beyond the authority of some guru or swami, a status you also appear to be claiming for yourself. Arguments from authority don't work, you'll have to do better than that, but I really wish you wouldn't try. Be much better for all of us if you'd just stop spamming the forums with this crap. Or at least just restrict yourself to the thread created for you for this as you've been asked to do repeatedly, instead of starting multiple threads about the same ideas.

dattaswami

#10

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

If anybody could present a good case for knowing what they are, I might, and if I believed god exists I might, but I've never seen such a presentation and I don't believe he exists anyway. All this stuff is human invention as far as I can tell, I know of no reason to think any of it's true and plenty of reasons to think it's not, which to my mind makes you just another of the deluded billions who've fallen for this unsubstantiated nonsense. You've offered no evidence, you just make sweeping claims and generalizations without offering any reason to believe them beyond the authority of some guru or swami, a status you also appear to be claiming for yourself. Arguments from authority don't work, you'll have to do better than that, but I really wish you wouldn't try. Be much better for all of us if you'd just stop spamming the forums with this crap. Or at least just restrict yourself to the thread created for you for this as you've been asked to do repeatedly, instead of starting multiple threads about the same ideas.

The reason for all sins is absence of divine knowledge or the firm realization of it to implement it in practice. If you realize your sins and do not repeat them, all your past and present sins get cancelled. Mere knowing of divine knowledge is not sufficient to give this wonderful result. After knowing, you should memorize it again and again so that you will implement it in practice. Such state of knowledge is called as ‘Realization’. Only realization can cancel the sins. Realization is the knowledge with deep intensity and is called as knowledge-fire. The Gita says that the knowledge-fire can burn all the previous deeds. The Bible also says that Jesus will come to sprinkle fire on the people in the place of water. Here, water means the process of mere knowledge. Fire means the intensified knowledge so that practical implementation of it takes place.

Knowledge can be given by any preacher. But, God in human form like Krishna or Jesus can alone give the knowledge-fire. Therefore, a better statement will be “Please find out the contemporary human incarnation and get divine knowledge from Him. You memorize such divine knowledge so that it becomes knowledge-fire and burn all your sins so that you will be happy in this world, or let it burn all your deeds so that you will get salvation.” In fact, the Gita says that the knowledge-fire should burn all the deeds, which are good and bad. Such stage indicates the absence of any selfish ambition for happiness. All the actions of the soul in such state are meant for God only and there is no selfishness. Such state gives salvation not only in this world, but also in the upper world. The burning of sins only gives happiness in this world only.

lone wolf

#11

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Is this discussion or preaching?

dattaswami

#12

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

Is this discussion or preaching?

Divine knowledge alone can clarify all your spiritual doubts. Therefore God comes to this world in huamn form with wonderful torch of divine knowledge to uplift you.

The main aim of human incarnation is the spiritual knowledge, which is like a torch light for a traveler in the darkness. The materialistic boons are like the food packets required by you while sitting in the intervals of the journey. If you avoid the journey and constantly sit eating the food packets continuously, your health will be spoiled.

You may not require the torch light while sitting and eating the food packets. But, once you start the journey, the torch light is essential. The journey in the right path guided by the torch light only helps you to reach the goal quickly. If you constantly sit at one place eating the food continuously, you will not only reach the goal but also become sick. If you don’t have torch light in the journey, you may travel but will not reach the goal since you are trapped in the wrong path. Therefore, the main aim of the human incarnation is only the spiritual knowledge, which guides you in the right path.

Hence, only the spiritual knowledge is the identification mark of God in human form as said in the Veda (satyam jnaanam anantam Brahma…). The knowledge given by God is always true and hence, will be harsh. God will not go back in giving the true knowledge because He does not aspire anything from you in return. Such true knowledge is infinite because it is the chain of clarifications of infinite number of doubts coming from infinite number of human beings. Truth and infinity are the two adjectives given by the Veda, which qualify the knowledge of God.

lone wolf

#13

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

See ... the great failing of all preachers is in their own beliefs that their Truths supersede my own. My own comfort comes from within.

Dexter Sinister

#14

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Swami, it'd be more useful if you could post replies that have some relevance to what you're apparently replying to, instead of that preachy rambling.

dattaswami

#15

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

See ... the great failing of all preachers is in their own beliefs that their Truths supersede my own. My own comfort comes from within.

You are correct. Buddha said that without analysis, blind acceptance of even scripture and tradition is of no use. The scripture is already a well-settled conclusion of long logical debates. But, unfortunately, the wrong interpretation of the scripture is always developed through bad logic. This bad logic must be rejected by good logic, which is the reasonable process of reasoning. Therefore, when Buddha said that you should not accept the scripture blindly, means that you should not accept blindly the wrong interpretation of the scripture.

Dexter Sinister

#16

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

And by the same token, neither should we accept any of your claims. You're no more likely to have it right than other preacher.

dattaswami

#17

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

And by the same token, neither should we accept any of your claims. You're no more likely to have it right than other preacher.

Yes, you should not accept any bodies teaching just like that. Veda says that the true spiritual knowledge itself is God. The possessor of true spiritual knowledge and the best preacher of such true spiritual knowledge is the true spiritual knowledge and its best explanation only. You need not search the possessor of knowledge by going to various places. The knowledge given by a preacher is printed in the form of books. You can read various books, which are the messages given by various preachers. You can judge the true knowledge explained in best way. How to judge the true knowledge? It is said that your inner consciousness is the best judge (Pramanamantahkaranapravruttayah). When something is true, your inner consciousness will always prick you, saying that it is truth, even though you may not like it. Similarly your inner consciousness will say the false thing as false, even though you may like it. Actually God is giving this hint to you through your inner consciousness.

Sometimes, the knowledge may be true, but, if the explanation is not good, you will be having confusion. Even in such situation, your inner consciousness hints you that it is true. Ofcourse, if the true knowledge is explained in best way, you will not have any confusion. Therefore, not only the knowledge must be true, but also the way of explanation must be best. When both these aspects are accomplished, know that the preacher of such true knowledge explained in best way is God alone.

Such preacher is called as Satguru. Guru is the preacher and may give the true knowledge, which was already given by God through the scripture. But the best explanation of it, clarifying all your doubts is possible to God alone (chidyante sarvasamsayah).

Dexter Sinister

#18

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by dattaswami

Yes, you should not accept any bodies teaching just like that. Veda says that the true spiritual knowledge itself is God.

No reason to accept that claim either then, is there.

dattaswami

#19

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 25th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

No reason to accept that claim either then, is there.

You must use your logic and brain for analysing the divine knowledge. God never will say accept this blindly. He tells use your brain and analyse discuss with Me to know the truth. Emotional faith will not last for ever.

The spiritual knowledge or philosophy (Vedanta) is generally based on logic (Tarka). God is certainly above the logic and thus logic cannot touch Him (Naisha Tarkena -Veda). Nobody can show God by the indicating finger. Veda clearly states that God is beyond words, mind, intelligence and logic and the best way of explanation is silence about God. If that is so, there is no necessity of spiritual knowledge, because God cannot be known or imagined. Then what is the use of all these scriptures? Why are there so many discussions and debates?

Lord Yama says in Veda that angels and sages are still discussing about God and have concluded that God is unknowable. Here unknowable means unimaginable even to the logic. They have not conducted such long discussions to know simply that God is unknowable because it is not the object as my friend says! If God is said to be unimaginable, what is the subject of discussions? The answer is that the logic used in long discussions is not about God but about the Non-God entities (items of creation). Certainly, we cannot know God by logic or by any other means, but we can use the logic to reject a Non-God item projected as God. When you say that awareness is God, we will use the logic and see whether awareness is an item of creation.

If it is an item of creation, certainly it can be analyzed by logic. If logic fails to analyze it, certainly we will accept it as God. Similarly we shall apply the logic to several entities rejected as God and see whether any item is beyond logic.

The logic is the analytical faculty supported by practical examples, which stands as experimental verification. The ancient Indian logic was developed based on practical examples like mud pot etc. The advancement in logic took place from time to time and the logic was more and more sharpened. The authoritative parameters (Pramanas) have improved in number and therefore the schools of Nyaya, Vaiseshika and Vedanta differed in the subject of logic. The number of Pramanas increased from 2 to 4 and finally became 6 in Vedanta. This shows the improvement of logic in course of time. Today science is the most advanced logic since the experimental verification was improved. Therefore if I am explaining the philosophy based on science, it means that the philosophy is more and more clear due to the advanced logic. I told you already that the logic (science) is only useful to refuse any item of creation as not God.

The creator cannot be any item of the creation. If creator becomes creation, there must be some other creator for this creator to become the creation. Ad-infinitum (Anavastha) results. Science disproved some conclusions of the earlier logic and this should not be misunderstood as refusing God. God is in no way touched because the earlier logic also was dealing with only the analysis of created items. Tarka means the analysis of the items of creation, which are indicated and understood by their corresponding names or words (Tarkyante Padarthah Asminniti….). God is beyond all the words and cannot be the understood meaning of any word and therefore, logic cannot touch God.

Cliffy

#20

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by dattaswami

You must use your logic and brain for analysing the divine knowledge. God never will say accept this blindly. He tells use your brain and analyse discuss with Me to know the truth. Emotional faith will not last for ever.

Bla, bla, bla!

The creator cannot be any item of the creation. If creator becomes creation, there must be some other creator for this creator to become the creation. Ad-infinitum (Anavastha) results. Science disproved some conclusions of the earlier logic and this should not be misunderstood as refusing God. God is in no way touched because the earlier logic also was dealing with only the analysis of created items. Tarka means the analysis of the items of creation, which are indicated and understood by their corresponding names or words (Tarkyante Padarthah Asminniti….). God is beyond all the words and cannot be the understood meaning of any word and therefore, logic cannot touch God.

If god is beyond words and understanding, why are we talking about it then? You think you can define god by debating that because it is debatable, it is not god. So after years of debate, you still have no god, just a huge pile of mental BS. That is pretty much a steaming pile of excrement.

There is only one way to experience god, according to your logic, and that is to sit in silence until your mind stops talking to itself and you literally put your ego to sleep - meditation. There are many ways to accomplish this, none of which requires religion or gurus.

The problem here is, my friend, that you write so many words to say very little and confuse everybody in the process. Part of your problem, is also your poor command of the English language and the use of a bunch of words that mean something to people living in India that mean absolutely nothing to us.

dattaswami

#21

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

If god is beyond words and understanding, why are we talking about it then? You think you can define god by debating that because it is debatable, it is not god. So after years of debate, you still have no god, just a huge pile of mental BS. That is pretty much a steaming pile of excrement.

There is only one way to experience god, according to your logic, and that is to sit in silence until your mind stops talking to itself and you literally put your ego to sleep - meditation. There are many ways to accomplish this, none of which requires religion or gurus.

The problem here is, my friend, that you write so many words to say very little and confuse everybody in the process. Part of your problem, is also your poor command of the English language and the use of a bunch of words that mean something to people living in India that mean absolutely nothing to us.

It is true that GOd is unimaginable and beyond our comprehension. However, God comes in human form to us. By seeing such human form you are seeing the invisible God only, since God is present in Him all the time. The identity mark is the wonderful divine knowledge preached by Him.God is impartial and comes in human form in every human generation.

God Himself comes down in human form to give practical proof for the existence of the unimaginable God through the exhibition of unimaginable events called as miracles. Jesus told that He has come down to fulfill, what is said in the scripture. Krishna also said that He came down since there is a necessity and He said that He will come down whenever there is a necessity. The necessity is the requirement of practical proof for the theoretical explanation of God given in the scripture. Then only, the validity comes. Science is valid since every concept in the book is experimentally proved in the laboratory. A student of science always attends the practical class in the laboratory after the theory class. The doubt about the existence of God is quite natural because there is every chance to doubt about the existence of anything, which is not understood even by intensive imagination. The human incarnation declares the existence of God after giving the practical proof. In fact, people experience the unimaginable events in their life, which indicate God. But, people do not care to analyze and remember God thereby.

Even if we dispose all the miracles as magic show without careful analysis, the existence of unimaginable boundary of universe, which can be realized by anybody at anytime, is a clear proof for existence of unimaginable entity called as God.

Cliffy

#22

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

OK, let me try this angle then. Who is the present human incarnation of god? And what is the practical proof that miracles have been exhibited? What were those miracles and where is the proof?

dattaswami

#23

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

OK, let me try this angle then. Who is the present human incarnation of god? And what is the practical proof that miracles have been exhibited? What were those miracles and where is the proof?

If you see just a leaf and observe it deeply with the knowledge of Botany, you will be shocked with the miraculous work of God which reveals its unimaginable design, unimaginable co-ordination of functions of various cells etc. Through such unimaginable structure of the leaf you are first recognizing the unimaginable super power (Maya) of God. Immediately you will accept the possessor of the super power (Mayi) who is the Lord as said in the subsequent line of the same verse (Mayinamtu Maheshwaram….). Therefore, the deep analysis of the nature which is Science is exposing the miracle of God to every body in this world and there is no need of a separate miracle. Therefore, Science is the best religion exposing the existence of God to every ordinary human being on this earth including atheist.

Therefore, I have given a place for Science in the symbol of Universal Spirituality. A scientist does not require a separate miracle to recognize the existence of God like a realized soul since the deeper analysis of this nature reveals the unimaginable power of God and there by His existence. A scientist who does not believe the existence of God is not a scientist at all. Thus, an ordinary ignorant devotee is helped by God through unimaginable ways. The exceptionally excellent devotee finds God’s help even through the natural ways. He thinks that even the natural respiration is by the grace and power of God only.

Cliffy

#24

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

The way I see it is that the existence of the Creator is in all things and all we have to do is open our eyes and see it. We don't need books and we don't need gurus, priests or teachers of every kind and description to tell us how to do that. Those who can see can enjoy that but it does not predispose that those who choose not to see or who can't see are going to enjoy life any less. Everything in the Universe is a part of the Godhead. Nothing is separate, everything is interconnected and interdependent. As science has shown, nothing is ever lost, it just changes frequency, intermingles with the soup of energy that is the Universe and becomes part of something else.

It really is that simple. You are complicating it to make it sound like a mystery that needs someone like you to teach people how to see. The truth is nobody needs you to tell them anything. The expression that sums up what you are doing is "farting in the wind".

Dexter Sinister

#25

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 26th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by dattaswami

You must use your logic and brain for analysing the divine knowledge.

My logic and brain tell me that nothing you've said here is true and that there's no such thing as divine knowledge, because god is entirely a human invention with no reality outside the realm of ideas. This, meaning everything you've ever posted here, is fiction to me, all of it.

JLM

#26

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 29th, 2011

I got to wondering the other day if besides the "Big Guy", who made the world, if each one of us doesn't independently have a "god" of our own. I think someone is definitely looking after me, despite the trials, tribulations and disappointments in my life, so far I've seemed to avoid the worst case scenarios and have much to be thankful for. Keeping my fingers crossed though. When the population was only a couple of million I could see one God, but now that it's up around 6 billion, he'd be a pretty busy boy.

Cliffy

#27

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 29th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I got to wondering the other day if besides the "Big Guy", who made the world, if each one of us doesn't independently have a "god" of our own. I think someone is definitely looking after me, despite the trials, tribulations and disappointments in my life, so far I've seemed to avoid the worst case scenarios and have much to be thankful for. Keeping my fingers crossed though. When the population was only a couple of million I could see one God, but now that it's up around 6 billion, he'd be a pretty busy boy.

I forget who coined the Phrase "God Botherers" but it seems apt. People had to invent a god to make themselves important in face of the inevitable realization of our insignificance. It is too depressing for most to feel that unimportant. So they bother god constantly hoping that there is more to life than the mundane drudgery of working and raising families. The truth is in the Meaning of Life (Monty Python) - we are just replicating DNA.

JLM

#28

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 29th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

I forget who coined the Phrase "God Botherers" but it seems apt. People had to invent a god to make themselves important in face of the inevitable realization of our insignificance. It is too depressing for most to feel that unimportant. So they bother god constantly hoping that there is more to life than the mundane drudgery of working and raising families. The truth is in the Meaning of Life (Monty Python) - we are just replicating DNA.

I'm not sure if most people find those things as either drudgery or mundane and I doubt whatever God there is would get too excited about people who find those things as such!

Cliffy

#29

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 29th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I'm not sure if most people find those things as either drudgery or mundane and I doubt whatever God there is would get too excited about people who find those things as such!

I'm sure god has as much use for me as I do for him. Most jobs are drudgery because most people do the same sort of stuff every day, day in day out. I have met very few people who get up in the morning excited about going to work (a job specifically). Work can be fun if you don't have to do it and want to, but how many can say that? We live on an insignificant speck of dust in an insignificant part of a infinitely vast Universe. If there is a god, why would it want to be bothered by us?

selin

#30

Re: You should obey God’s commandments

Jul 29th, 2011

If i should believe in a religion or in the way you like , i ask a lot of questions, here are some simple and common questions of them :
If he/she is so sure and strict to be followed by a book (a recipe), why did he allowed so diverse books , doctrins and commands about god existing and confusing us ? Why does god not behave openly? and make us think in different ways(religions). I was born tagged with muslim identity and you christian one according to the geography where we were born, how can he expect us to find the true, everybody has own true because they were effected by the culture and environment they live in-it is very minority to convert into a different religion,doctrin or idea. -as i have mentioned before, in place of sending a book/books to follow, he/she should have sent a video or something more effective to be easy for every person to understand...

Last edited by selin; Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:09 AM..

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