Aboriginal water...

[CDNBear]

Having some involvement with water systems I can shed some light on the boil water advisory. First off it is largely bureaucrats both making work for themselves and covering their butts at the same time. My family owns a water system that supplies about 150 houses. Has had a boil water advisory since the 60s because no one wants chlorine in their water. No one has ever got sick drinking it in all that time either. I have been involved in building at least 4 reserve water and sewer systems on the coast. The residents have been drinking the water from these streams for hundreds of years but as soon as a proper water system is put in it must be chlorinated and tested. Here is where the problem lies. The people in charge on the res hand out these jobs not on ability but relationships so we get Walkerton type water management. So to cover their asses the worthless bureaucrats simply put a boil water advisory on the supply.

I won't argue that your opinion is true in some cases TS, but it isn't the only reason that there are water quality issues on some reserves. Just like there are water quality issues in non First nations communities, with far more stringent regulations and regulatory inspections systems.

There are hundreds of reserves that simply do not have a water issue, that rely on systems, operated by local (Read, Native) authorities.

Where issues arise, you will find circumstances such as you highlighted, but you will also find issues caused by Federal authorities. When while under their jurisdiction, and were responsible, built substandard, poorly planned, and ill conceived placement of, water treatment facilities.

This in no way is meant to negate the responsibility of First Nations, in this issue. A recent expert panel determined that there were three key areas, in this story, that needed to be addressed.

1, A resource gap.
2, Failing to heed warnings from, and listening to Native communities concerns.
3, Addressing situations in Native communities, immediately.

There is no legislation, regarding water, on reserves. It has been a hap hazard application, for years. In some cases, I would actually say that good water quality, had more to do with luck, or location, as apposed to sound implementation and regulation.

That same expert panel, made several suggestions, to remedy the situation. Ranging from applying Provincial laws, amalgamation of Federal and Provincial laws, creating new legislation, and applying First Nations asserted jurisdiction and customary laws. Most importantly, closing the respurce gap.

In any case, the blame is just not simply owned by one group or the other. It was a combined effort of stupidity, sloth, waste, cronyism and corruption.

The right thing to do is, fix it. We can finger the culprits later.

You do know that you may be called a bigot or a racist for saying something like that.

Not at all. He doesn't use racial slurs or generalizations to shout others down.

Kashechewan is a perfect example of the failures within the First Nations communities that get blamed on "whitey". The "claim" was that local operators were not properly trained (which of course they were).

I'm sure you can back that up with some evidence.

In a nutshell, the history is that a part failed. There was a spare replacement part there. The local operator could have easily fixed the problem but could not be bothered (It wasn't a difficult fix - a 12 year old could have done it with ease). A contractor was flown in to do repairs (at considerable expense) and in no time the problem was solved.

I'm sure you can provide some evidence to back that up as well.

This is where the propaganda machine kicked in. The government flies in a portable water treatment plant and evacuated citizens and everybody stood around wringing their hands and descrying how bad a job "we" were doing giving these poor folks safe water. In Walkerton, we throw the incompetent idiots in jail. In Kashechewan, we blame the government because we couldn't possible hold aboriginals accountable for their idiocy. It's a double standard that people like me would like to see abolished. Some folks like to encourage the continuation of the double standard. It's clear they have an agenda based on racist ideology though they would rather eat glass than admit it.

Not at all. Some people like myself, have always been objective about the plights faced by First Nations, applying blame where it belongs. Be it upon the First Nations, or otherwise. But then again, I'm objective. Unlike some people, who would rather eat glass then admit they've made any error in their childish, unsupported, unproven, accusations. But would rather continue making the same silly mistakes, accusations, based solely on race. And I say that with all certainty, because they have failed to support those accusations, slurs and claims, with any form of fact or evidence.

If you don't mind me saying, you seem pretty emotionally invested, for someone who keeps claiming to be having, trying (and failing) to point out peoples hypocrisy.

 

[weaselwords]

The Feds or leaders of First Nations where water is a problem should be in contact with one of the world's leaders in potable & waste water technologies R&D Innovative Systems & their INNSOL systems. Guess where R&D is located. Yeah your right Ottawa.

 

[CDNBear]

The Feds or leaders of First Nations where water is a problem should be in contact with one of the world's leaders in potable & waste water technologies R&D Innovative Systems & their INNSOL systems. Guess where R&D is located. Yeah your right Ottawa.

The tech is there, and in some cases, as Cannuck pointed out, already implemented. What needs top happen is, proper management systems need to either implemented and adhered to, or people need to be held accountable.

 

[TenPenny]

The technology to have clean water (and decent housing) is so readily available, you have to wonder if the issue isn't simply the desire to have it.

 

[Cannuck]

The technology to have clean water (and decent housing) is so readily available, you have to wonder if the issue isn't simply the desire to have it.

Everybody desires it. The get-up-and-go to get it it done is what is missing in most cases.

 

[TenPenny]

Everybody desires it. The get-up-and-go to get it it done is what is missing in most cases.

I would think that if 'everybody' desired it, those in charge of the communities, and those who vote for them, would make some effort to make it happen.

Obviously, it's not much of a desire, if nobody can be bothered to actually do anything.

**** in one hand, wish in the other, and see which fills up first.

 

[CDNBear]

yes, which is why in 2008, there were 97 "boil-water advisories on a limited number of reserves, out of 1700+, such advisories, across Canada. A third of which were in BC.

By the logic expressed by Cannuck. BC'ers are incompetent, lazy people.

Excellent logic gentlemen.

Sick with it, it explains a lot.

I see Cannuck is still unable to support his claims with some evidence.

 

[TenPenny]

yes, which is why in 2008, there were 97 "boil-water advisories on reserves, out of 1700+, such advisories, across Canada. A third of which were in BC.

By the logic expressed by Cannuck. BC'ers are incompetent, lazy people.

Excellent logic gentlemen.

It's not being lazy, it's not wanting something badly enough to do anything about it.

I live in a city of some 70,000 people where our water system pretty much consists of filtering lake water and adding chlorine. It would not pass current standards for municipal water systems. Every year, the mayor and council claim that water is a priority, but this year they spent $44million on a new police station.

I'm quite familiar with groups that claim they want clean water, but in reality can't be bothered to do anything about it. You either want it badly enough to do something about it, or you don't.

 

[Cannuck]

Obviously, it's not much of a desire, if nobody can be bothered to actually do anything.

It's like being rich. Lots of people want money as long as they don't have to give up too much of their free time to get it.

 

[CDNBear]

It's not being lazy, it's not wanting something badly enough to do anything about it.

I live in a city of some 70,000 people where our water system pretty much consists of filtering lake water and adding chlorine. It would not pass current standards for municipal water systems. Every year, the mayor and council claim that water is a priority, but this year they spent $44million on a new police station.

I'm quite familiar with groups that claim they want clean water, but in reality can't be bothered to do anything about it. You either want it badly enough to do something about it, or you don't.

I apologize then, I thought you were validating Cannucks weak generalizations about First Nations. And I completely agree with you, you scenario you presented, is as easily applicable to First nations Councils.

 

[Cannuck]

By the logic expressed by Cannuck. BC'ers are incompetent, lazy people.

Not at all. You are the one that has tried to connect boil water orders to competent/qualified and capable operators and systems so by your admission, I guess you are the one that believes BC'ers are incompetent and lazy. I'm not surprised given that you seem to like pointing your fingers at other groups of people.

 

[CDNBear]

Not at all. You are the one that has tried to connect boil water orders to competent/qualified and capable operators and systems so by your admission, I guess you are the one that believes BC'ers are incompetent and lazy. I'm not surprised given that you seem to like pointing your fingers at other groups of people.

Ahh yes, the old word game smith, rears his head, instead of providing the evidence asked of him, yet again.

Why are you so afraid to provide evidence, to support your claims?

 

[Cannuck]

Why are you so afraid to provide evidence, to support your claims?

I did. I mentioned that one of the systems I look after has had a boil water order in place for months simply because the local health inspector doesn't understand the issue. Just because you miss this stuff doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

[CDNBear]

I did. I mentioned that one of the systems I look after has had a boil water order in place for months simply because the local health inspector doesn't understand the issue. Just because you miss this stuff doesn't mean it isn't there.

Yes, and just because you can't provide evidenced to back up your claims about Kashechewan, doesn't mean I was asking you for evidence on something else.

Nice try though.

 

[gerryh]

I did. I mentioned that one of the systems I look after has had a boil water order in place for months simply because the local health inspector doesn't understand the issue. Just because you miss this stuff doesn't mean it isn't there.

PROVE IT you dumb fu cking shyte. Just typing it on the net proves squat. Where's your documentation? Your PROOF.

 

[CDNBear]

PROVE IT you dumb fu cking shyte. Just typing it on the net proves squat. Where's your documentation? Your PROOF.

You're asking SJP II to support his claims with evidence?

Gh, you have a better chance getting an Evangelical preacher to support pro choice.

 

[Cannuck]

PROVE IT you dumb fu cking shyte. Just typing it on the net proves squat. Where's your documentation? Your PROOF.

I'm not required to prove it. This isn't a court of law (besides, CB asked why I was afraid to "provide evidence"). Only a "dumb fu cking shyte" wouldn't be able to tell the difference between evidence and proof.

 

[gerryh]

I'm not required to prove it. This isn't a court of law (besides, CB asked why I was afraid to "provide evidence"). Only a "dumb fu cking shyte" wouldn't be able to tell the difference between evidence and proof.

OK then....that makes it simple.

 

[Cannuck]

OK then....that makes it simple.

I have to make it simple once you enter into the discussion. No need to thank me.

 

[CDNBear]

I'm not required to prove it. This isn't a court of law (besides, CB asked why I was afraid to "provide evidence"). Only a "dumb fu cking shyte" wouldn't be able to tell the difference between evidence and proof.

So in otherwords, you have no proof or evidence.

Cool, so taking your posts with a train load of salt, was the right thing to do.