What Makes the Canadian Government Democratic?

[petros]

Can you vote for PM without voting for a party through an MP?

If you like the PM but hate your MP how do you get to cast a vote for the PM and against the MP?

Do we really vote for who we want by being FORCED to vote for a party MP to vote for PM?

What makes the seat of Prime Minister legitimate? He is there by choice of party not by popular personal vote.

I'm not a party voter and as a non-party voter my right to chose a leader of the country is nullified.

 

[darkbeaver]

Every effort is undertaken to afford the Canadian voter the finest simulation of democracy. So much so that we barely notice the artificial flavours. You can rest assured that your vote for one of three or four sibling political organizations serves the interests of this country in no small measure. The interested class knows well what this country needs and we should continue to support their efforts to increase production and efficiency which is desperately needed for the prosecution of the Holy War against MidEastAsia and the terrorists hordes threatening our crops and livestock.

 

[petros]

As a shareowner (who the **** HOLDs our shares?) of the Corporation of Canada I should have a stake in who sits on the board and for who sits as President. Who the **** is President of the Corporation of Canada and who is holding and voting for my share?

 

[darkbeaver]

Perhaps that question could be an election issue at some time in the future when our democracy has matured.

 

[petros]

How can something we don't have mature? How can a fictional entity such as a "political party" run a true democracy?

I vote for people not faerie tales.

 

[darkbeaver]

How can something we don't have mature? How can a fictional entity such as a "political party" run a true democracy?

I vote for people not faerie tales.

If you vote for the man, in Canada, you also vote for his fictional entity even if he thinks he's an independent.. I don't know of a true democracy. What does it look like? I intend to drink all day instead of voting. I've heard all the lying bags of crap before.

 

[petros]

If you vote for the man, in Canada, you also vote for his fictional entity even if he thinks he's an independent.. I don't know of a true democracy. What does it look like?

What does the other side of the sun look like? I've seen images but I've never seen it.

 

[darkbeaver]

Funny you should mention "the sun" a subject worthy of national debate and process.

 

[petros]

Funny you should mention "the sun" a subject worthy of national debate and process.

Have they figured out how to steal your sol?

 

[darkbeaver]

I wonder?

 

[petros]

If they have your mind your sol will follow.

 

[Corduroy]

I don't want to interrupt you two, but I just did.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Of course you can vote for the next Prime Minister. All you have to do is live in Jack Layton's riding.

 

[damngrumpy]

If you are saying we are not a republic and we are in fact a parliamentary democracy
you are right. We vote for the party that best reflects our values and the party has the
job of picking their leader. Its a great system actually, all you have to do is become a
party member of the party you most identify with and vote for the leader of that particular
party. If you chose not to put your membership fee down and vote that is up to you.
In the end you are voting for the ideology you personally believe in and that is democratic.
I hope we never separate the institution and vote separately, in fact I like things the way
they are. I don't like referendums, or initiative ballots, and proportional representation.
First past the post is good enough for me.

 

[atlanticaparty]

If you are saying we are not a republic and we are in fact a parliamentary democracy
you are right. We vote for the party that best reflects our values and the party has the
job of picking their leader. Its a great system actually, all you have to do is become a
party member of the party you most identify with and vote for the leader of that particular
party. If you chose not to put your membership fee down and vote that is up to you.
In the end you are voting for the ideology you personally believe in and that is democratic.
I hope we never separate the institution and vote separately, in fact I like things the way
they are. I don't like referendums, or initiative ballots, and proportional representation.
First past the post is good enough for me.

Damngrumpy,

doesn't it bother you that we don't select our leaders or our government?

doesn't it bother you that under FPTP in a five way race someone can win with 25%, meaning 75% do not support their representative?

doesn't it bother you that your representative is told how to vote, regardless of the views of constituents?

don't you want to be able to directly vote on an issue?

 

[TenPenny]

doesn't it bother you that under FPTP in a five way race someone can win with 25%, meaning 75% do not support their representative?

I think you're misinterpreting what that means.
The only way you could state that 75% do not support their representative would be to have that question on the ballot: which candidate do you not want to win?

If someone asked you what flavour of ice cream is your favorite, and you said chocolate, does that mean you do not like strawberry ice cream? No, it doesn't. It means that, given the choices, your first choice is chocolate.

People commonly state this foolishness when discussing election results, and it completely misunderstands the results.

One candidate winning 25% does not mean that 75% are against them. It means that 25% picked that candidate as their preference, and the other 75% picked someone else as their preference. But it does not mean that 75% are opposed to that candidate.

 

[petros]

If you are saying we are not a republic and we are in fact a parliamentary democracy
you are right. We vote for the party that best reflects our values and the party has the
job of picking their leader. Its a great system actually, all you have to do is become a
party member of the party you most identify with and vote for the leader of that particular
party. If you chose not to put your membership fee down and vote that is up to you.
In the end you are voting for the ideology you personally believe in and that is democratic.
I hope we never separate the institution and vote separately, in fact I like things the way
they are. I don't like referendums, or initiative ballots, and proportional representation.
First past the post is good enough for me.

That is not democracy.

 

[Trex]

Can you vote for PM without voting for a party through an MP?

If you like the PM but hate your MP how do you get to cast a vote for the PM and against the MP?

Do we really vote for who we want by being FORCED to vote for a party MP to vote for PM?

What makes the seat of Prime Minister legitimate? He is there by choice of party not by popular personal vote.

I'm not a party voter and as a non-party voter my right to chose a leader of the country is nullified.

Thats what sometimes makes voting a tricky bit of business.

But your vote is never nullified, every vote cast does have an impact.
Perhaps it's not the result that you would prefer but never the less a result does occur.

Like you I am not a tied to any particular party or political dogma.
In the last provincial election where I reside I supported the Conservatives but I could not stomach the party leader and so I voted for a different party.
In this upcoming national election I happen to think that Harper would do the best job of piloting the ship of state.
I also cannot stand my Conservative MP.
And so I will not be able to vote for the Conservative party nationally.
But I will vote.

 

[petros]

I'll be voting too but for who I'm not quite sure yet as apparently this election is battle of people I can't vote for both physically and morally. There seems to be zero focus on the local level which is where the impact of my vote has it's importance.

If these so called representatives of my best interests are putting their best interests first and placing myself and my choices for MP on the alter for sacrifice then none of them can be trusted to represent my best interests on a federal and international scale and that is not democracy.

If you don't vote for a party you have no vote federally and that's not democracy.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Can you vote for PM without voting for a party through an MP?

No, unless you live in the constituency where the person who'll become PM is running, but really, in principle you're still just voting for an MP to represent you, not the PM.

If you like the PM but hate your MP how do you get to cast a vote for the PM and against the MP?

Can't be done, unless you're a voting delegate at the party convention that selects the leader.

Do we really vote for who we want by being FORCED to vote for a party MP to vote for PM?

You can't vote directly for the PM except under the conditions described above, but even so, you're not really voting directly for who will be PM, that's not how the system works. The PM is chosen indirectly from the perspective of most voters. Closest you can come to voting directly for the PM is to be a voting delegate at a leadership convention for a party already in power, but again, in principle you're still just voting for a party leader, not for who will be PM, that's just a side effect of particular circumstances.

What makes the seat of Prime Minister legitimate?

Parliamentary Democracy 101: The party members decide on their leaders and who forms the government is determined by the individuals we elect to the House. The leader of the party that forms the government will be the PM as long as his (or her, some day I hope) government retains the confidence of the House. Any responsible voting citizen should know that.