Hosed

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
There's no question we've been suffering from a lack of real democratic representation in this country for decades. Even though some of my earliest memories are of a neighbour being elected to Parliament as a Liberal when I was about five(his daughter was my first girlfriend hence my lifelong inability to take anybody who claims the Liberals are evil seriously) I never did buy into Trudeau Mania. While he did help define a Canadian character separate from the Brits and the Americans, the price has been a cult of personality around our PM ever since. Too much hype and too little substance. And while there were too many extremists in the Reform party in my opinion I liked what Manning stood for and Joe Clark has more integrity in his little finger than Chretien has in his whole body.

To me once again we're saddled with just another arrogant, self-interested PM who could care less about what the vast majority believe and in the long term need in the this country. He's too focused on his social conservative agenda and his too-close-for-comfort ties to industry. Even if I didn't believe in the seriousness of climate change(which I do) I still think a PM needs to be more objective and free of obvious conflicts of interest... but that's not likely in this country now or in the forseeable future.

I would have been more than happy to see Steven Harper take the bull by the horns and try to wrestle this country in a different direction politically by repairing some of the serious flaws in our democratic process but instead he's taken us by the balls and tried to squeeze any real will to think independently out of voters. He's taken a page out of the US neo-con manual and turned our political forum into a battlefield to an unprecedented level, with the apparent objective of intimidating and manipulating his way to greater power while doing as little as possible to actually make a real difference to our lives. I know many admire his skill at driving the agenda to favour his own interests at the expense of the overall Parliamentary system and I also understand the Liberals did the same to a degree in the decade before. The difference being when the Liberals took power they really did face a hostile Parliament who's official opposition's main focus was the dismemberment of the country, something most democratic systems aren't really set up to handle. Now the conservatives are taking an even more belicose approach to Parliament than the Liberals did, not with the objective of keeping the country together-which the Liberals just barely managed to do in 1995- but with the singular goal of eliminating any real opposition to their continued control of the country. "Canada's new Government" was notice of new management, "Harper's Government" is notice of new ownership.

Truly we're being hosed once again.
 
Last edited:

polaris

Nominee Member
Jan 7, 2011
65
0
6
I agree 100% with this well written and reasoned posting.

If the path to the right is wrong...maybe we should give Jack a chance.

I posted to this thread 2 days ago and sat through 2 days of inoperative stagnation...poor management ... post did not show...

could it be censorship ?
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
Harper is a draw back for this country simply because he is a social conservative and
luckily everyone knows it. The Reform Movement hijacked the Conservative Party and
as we know movements are not political parties. Like the locust they come and send
a message of change, the trouble is, left or right, the people disconnect with them and
all that remains is a line in history. Social Credit is a prime example, they were the
movement before Reform. I don't believe Harper will get a majority because people do
not trust this hybrid, political social movement with the power of a majority.
The trouble is, there is no trust for anyone else either, not Jack, not Iggy and the Block,
well we know where that is going.
I do agree with parts of what you said, Harper is a political gigolo who pretends to be a
mainstream conservative while disguising his true intentions should he get that extra
vote. None of them are trustworthy at this point and time, and as long as the Bloc has
a power base a majority is a long way off. To demonstrate what I mean about the social
conservative agenda being nothing more than a fading dream, count the number of
tory politicians who are not running again. They know the end of the road has come for
two reasons. The first being, the majority numbers are just not there and this Tory
government is not equipped to run a mainstream conservative government,. Their followers
are going to demand a swing to the right and the numbers to govern won't be there.
Secondly the Liberals have been in the penalty box for a long time now and they are about
to be forgiven by the general public. Many in the conservative ranks know it and they are
leaving not because they won't get elected, but because they won't count in opposition after
being cabinet members for so long.
In short the jig is nearly up and that is why they want an election now, as the numbers are
about to swing to somewhere less favourable for the Harper Government.
As for us being hosed, we are a lot better off than many other places in the world.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,409
11,455
113
Low Earth Orbit
Well put Grumps but real change in Ottawa will take more than just weenie roasts and town hall meetings. We need an interactive government where the people are the puppeteers not the Wall Street gambling cartels or DC paid advisor's and image consultants.

Canada is a Corporation listed on the SEC and I want the paperwork and power of a true stockholder. This stock owner crap with no real power is a farce beyond belief.

We have an upcoming budget. Do you have a copy of the comprehensive assessment of Canada's true and real worth that the budget will be crafted from? What is our real income and wealth? GDP doesn't come close to what the comprehensive assessment really says came out of the ground and was produced by labour.

For all we know they could be budgeting our social needs on only 10% of what we really have in cash.

Budget is a term as loose as that hooker from Calgary that owns part of a water company and was set up in a sweet ass house in Ottawa to be close to her Conservative, Harper adviser, sugar daddy.

If the masses only knew how far down the river they have been sold...


they'd probably get drunk and watch more TV.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
I think you were all over the place Damngrumpy. Some of what you said made sense to me, some I think reflects a regional perspective and some I don't agree with.

The first being, the majority numbers are just not there and this Tory
government is not equipped to run a mainstream conservative government,. Their followers
are going to demand a swing to the right and the numbers to govern won't be there.

OK this really two things: the numbers and what followers demand/feel they are owed is one thing, the level of preparedness of the CPC to form a gov't being the second... and I disagree with you on both. The easy one first: most ministers rely on their staffs and the bureaucracies of their departments to run their portfolios. Yes, the minsters need to keep abreast of developments and issues within their baliwicks but their main function is to report to Parliament... and most people elected should be capable of fulfilling this need. In our government, the real key is what direction does the government want to go with the various depts.

As for the numbers thing, Harper is a politician and knows he has to reward those who come through for him. If Quebec delivers him more seats, he will appoint more cabinet posts to Quebec MPs. If the major urban centers support him, they'll get ministers. Its the same no matter who is in office... and while they may be able to push their agenda a little harder if they get a majority, if they veer to sharply, MPs can cross the floor, absent themselves from votes or vote against party lines. This is something Harper knows too well, having seen the threat of it at various points in the last couple decades. You may not like him (I don't especially), but he's not an idiot.

Secondly the Liberals have been in the penalty box for a long time now and they are about
to be forgiven by the general public.

The Liberals have been in the penalty box a few years and although Canadians have exceedingly short memories, I don't see anything from Liberals to say they have earned forgiveness... especially in the face of what the alternative has been: effective albeit uninspiring governance. The country didn't collapse when they Conservatives took power: it rode out the global economic slump better than other countries and is still ticking along, and now we can start look to eliminating the deficit we had to run to keep things going. Contrary to some yanked Liberal "scare" ads from the last election (or the one before it), of what a Harper gov't might mean , there are no armed soldiers patrolling the streets of Canadian cities, quelling dissenters. And when one looks at the Liberals, all we see is another attempt at cult of personality.

In the end, people elect the gov't they deserve.
 

Fallout

New Member
Mar 20, 2011
33
0
6
Hello

My list for not wanting to see Harper ever get a majority is now nearly as long as the one I had made for why the Liberals needed to be defeated.
It seems to me that 'The People Of Canada' become but an after thought to those who get elected to run the country.
Since the Liberals got defeated, it appears that more and more Canadians are coming to the same conclusion.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
fify and what the hell does that have to do with anything?

We are know for the company we keep. The the real gritty details can be found in the friends we toss to the wolves.
Sounds like something some old Indian would say. Gandhi maybe?
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
5,959
66
48
Quebec
It is our system that is to blame.
Political Parties become an entity that is only hungry for power. The citizen's needs comes in second or is dictated to us. We swallow it whole or we become so blazeyed (sp) about it that we don't give a damn. What we have here is mainly elected dictatorship.
Regional representative is lost as soon as the ballots are counted .

Remove the parties , remove how the prime minister reigns over that party.
It may remove the division we have in this country.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Hello

My list for not wanting to see Harper ever get a majority is now nearly as long as the one I had made for why the Liberals needed to be defeated.
It seems to me that 'The People Of Canada' become but an after thought to those who get elected to run the country.
Since the Liberals got defeated, it appears that more and more Canadians are coming to the same conclusion.
Care to share that list on the Conservatives?

We are know for the company we keep.
Ya, I know all manner of drug dealers and addicts. But you don't think pot is a bad thing.

The the real gritty details can be found in the friends we toss to the wolves.
Or the friends that act like ground meat, and make themselves way to appetizing.

Sounds like something some old Indian would say. Gandhi maybe?
Yer a deep thinker Unf. If only Tdot hadn't indoctrinated you.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Harper is a draw back for this country simply because he is a social conservative and
luckily everyone knows it. The Reform Movement hijacked the Conservative Party and
as we know movements are not political parties. Like the locust they come and send
a message of change, the trouble is, left or right, the people disconnect with them and
all that remains is a line in history. Social Credit is a prime example, they were the
movement before Reform. I don't believe Harper will get a majority because people do
not trust this hybrid, political social movement with the power of a majority.
The trouble is, there is no trust for anyone else either, not Jack, not Iggy and the Block,
well we know where that is going.
I do agree with parts of what you said, Harper is a political gigolo who pretends to be a
mainstream conservative while disguising his true intentions should he get that extra
vote. None of them are trustworthy at this point and time, and as long as the Bloc has
a power base a majority is a long way off. To demonstrate what I mean about the social
conservative agenda being nothing more than a fading dream, count the number of
tory politicians who are not running again. They know the end of the road has come for
two reasons. The first being, the majority numbers are just not there and this Tory
government is not equipped to run a mainstream conservative government,. Their followers
are going to demand a swing to the right and the numbers to govern won't be there.
Secondly the Liberals have been in the penalty box for a long time now and they are about
to be forgiven by the general public. Many in the conservative ranks know it and they are
leaving not because they won't get elected, but because they won't count in opposition after
being cabinet members for so long.
In short the jig is nearly up and that is why they want an election now, as the numbers are
about to swing to somewhere less favourable for the Harper Government.
As for us being hosed, we are a lot better off than many other places in the world.

I can't quite entirely agree with you, as I think the majority of Canadians think it's safer to stick with Harper than to go elsewhere. Liberals simply do not have a credible leader. Also I think there is the fear that if the Liberals got back in taxes would sky rocket. Harper does appear to be following through with his "get tough on crime"- (not sure if he's doing it right but at least he's doing something) The main thing I have against Harper is his "double standard"- one for him and one for everyone else. But then religious fanatics can be a little like that. Next election Harper will get 160 seats. My prediction only. :lol:
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Much what? Deflection? Diversion?

Geez, did you take a page out of the political campaign handbook?

Ex aid. As soon as the PMO was made aware of the unethical behavior, the proper authorities were contacted.

Are you responsible and culpable, for other peoples actions?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,409
11,455
113
Low Earth Orbit
Much what? Deflection? Diversion?

Geez, did you take a page out of the political campaign handbook?

Ex aid. As soon as the PMO was made aware of the unethical behavior, the proper authorities were contacted.

Are you responsible and culpable, for other peoples actions?
I think you have the wrong aid and hooker.