Unequal funding corrupts results

[polaris]

For decades the Liberal party held the keys to the corporate and banking world and they won election after election with only minor interruptions. Their campaign funding chests overflowed and they lived in the land of milk, honey, and gravy. Then came the sponsorship scandal and the bribes that had greased the wheels of Liberal indulgence was spread to its own downward slide. And though Liberal ethics (?) which put money in the pockets of their friends may waft of rotten eggs, Conservative competitive me-only ethics (?) fully reek of the stench of corruption. (Mulroney)

The Conservatives are loaded with corporate cash for the next election.
For every Conservative $100

Liberals have $50

NDP has $25

Greens have $1

(numbers are rough estimates)

If we need the best possible answers to our nations' and planets' concerns surely we must have election results that reflect truth and justice not wealth and privilege.

At the tender age of 61 I have witnessed a goodly number of elections and what has become ever more apparent during those contests is how rarely a Conservative will show up at an All Candidates Meeting. For years now they have been in permanent campaign mode where they work hand in hand with their corporate contributors; the owners of newspapers television and radio outlets. Conservative strategists know that the few percentage of mindless monkeys who haven't already set their voting intentions can be swayed and manipulated through fear or hollow promises deluged upon them in the few weeks of active election campaign, and sadly that is enough to win them the power over the majority who did not vote for them.

Campaign spending should be directly proportional to the number of votes received and equal for all parties. Appeals to the voters should be truthful, factual and comparative, not emotional or manipulative.

Money is power. Power corrupts.

 

[taxslave]

Have you been hiding under a rock for all of those 61 years? Us taxpayers are forced to contribute to parties not of our choice as well as preferred one via tax dollars given on the basis of votes got in the last election. As well many of us are forced to donate to a party not of our choice via a portion of our union dues being given to the dippers.

 

[Trotz]

Or past 2000 years? Most Republics have been organized as plutocracies.

 

[damngrumpy]

Donations given by unions some say donating to a party they don't support, given that
as a consumer, business, and banks donate to political parities and most do, and they
too might be donating to a party I don't support. As for Government giving a dollar a vote
I don't have a problem with that in the long run. I think equal time should be given on all
outlets, and advertising in the public interest should be made available and all views
should be heard including those I disagree with. In turn the money they get should be
the money they have, parties should not be getting money from business or unions.
If they want to gain funds from their own signed up members fine, and the dollar a vote
fine but that is it period

 

[Ralph B]

Yes it is all a farce in campain money spent. And all I have noticed last couple of elections is children in the school yard calling names and pointing fingers!! After all the only thing Harpers cons said last election was how weak Jack Layton and Elisabeth May were, and that Mr Dion's green shift was only another tax on the people. No where did I hear him say he was going to work for the Canadian people!! So another porouge of parliment, and alot of inaction overspending on G8 & 20 he never said he wouldn't. Oh ya he did promise to bring our troops home, which he is doing, well most and ones left will be in "safe non-combative role".
However he does have the funds and team on stand-by to bash whatever manover another party chooses to campain on. Well we also know if nothing else he will emphisize Ignatiff's time outside of Canada. We had a preview with his bashing campain when coalition threatened him when he took a vacation (Porouge parliment)(to watch olympics from best seats complements of taxpayers)(even corporate paid seats are write offs to taxes). Would have been nice if all Canadians would have as much paid time off to see games in seats that were a write off. Oh ya many of us working class Canadians had the time off, via all the job losses, many with UI near an end and jobs far and few to be had. Many and majority of jobs were at a severly cut wage! Most around min wage and only to be had through an agency.
Hey can we have our MP's suplied by agency?? That way if they if they don't go in direction that we want we can call agency to replace him we want to try someone else?? I"ll vote for an agency that will put an action person in to represent my community, and if he/she screws up we pitition agency with say 100 signatures they have to change for another, give the people more control!! Corparations do it to working class so why can't we do it to our representitives?? That would cut overhead of vacation pay (increasing) severance as well as benifits!! Think of the Money it would save in pensions!!
Heck reduce debt, maybe be able to lower taxes down the road. YA!!

 

[Dixie Cup]

I am tired of hearing about complaints of liberals this and conservatives - they both suck at times (sometimes more often than others). We constantly demand things of governments - screw the cost - (I guess, because otherwise we wouldn't be so demanding). We have no control over our own lives because government is only reflected by those who elect them which is ....us. We have more debt than at anytime in history and still we want more. We complain about the government but can't get off our **sses to actually vote on election date so we really have no one to blame but ourselves. The bickering between parties, the seemingly vile interaction between the political parties are totally unacceptable. But until we, the people, demand civilty and cooperation, it will all just continue. If we're too lazy to vote, then you must accept whatever the results. I'm sick of it!

My pledge to myself this year (note I didn't say resolution) is to complain less, do more (for my family, neighbourhood, community and city), save more and spend less. With any luck by the time I have to retire I'll have enough to eat, pay my bills and, hopefully, by a beer once in awhile and then I'll be a happy camper.

What about you?

JMO

Oh poop, I forgot the more important part - demand more from our elected officials and throw the buggers out if they don't comply. We need to bring back civility, not only to politics but to our society as a whole.

There - I'm done

 

[taxslave]

Donations given by unions some say donating to a party they don't support, given that
as a consumer, business, and banks donate to political parities and most do, and they
too might be donating to a party I don't support. As for Government giving a dollar a vote
I don't have a problem with that in the long run. I think equal time should be given on all
outlets, and advertising in the public interest should be made available and all views
should be heard including those I disagree with. In turn the money they get should be
the money they have, parties should not be getting money from business or unions.
If they want to gain funds from their own signed up members fine, and the dollar a vote
fine but that is it period

Difference being that in many jobs one is forced to belong to the union, government being a prime example whereas if you don't like the political stance of a business you are free to shop at a competitor.

 

[polaris]

Union membership is definitely a small minority all over north america. Union funding of political parties is only fractional of funding by corporations. Stop dragging that red-herring into the discussion. And when all the corps are contributing to conservative bribe-boxes how is the independent citizen able to get the goods and services he needs when there is no alternative? We are not talking Ma and Pa corner stores here...They have been put out of business by Big-Box corporate Walmarts...who of coarse have no unions...
If you really believe what you have written you are a fool...if you don't truly believe it you are a.....

t

 

[CDNBear]

Union membership is definitely a small minority all over north america. Union funding of political parties is only fractional of funding by corporations. Stop dragging that red-herring into the discussion. And when all the corps are contributing to conservative bribe-boxes how is the independent citizen able to get the goods and services he needs when there is no alternative? We are not talking Ma and Pa corner stores here...They have been put out of business by Big-Box corporate Walmarts...who of coarse have no unions...
If you really believe what you have written you are a fool...if you don't truly believe it you are a.....

t

Are you talking about American or Canadian political contributions?

 

[taxslave]

Union membership is definitely a small minority all over north america. Union funding of political parties is only fractional of funding by corporations. Stop dragging that red-herring into the discussion. And when all the corps are contributing to conservative bribe-boxes how is the independent citizen able to get the goods and services he needs when there is no alternative? We are not talking Ma and Pa corner stores here...They have been put out of business by Big-Box corporate Walmarts...who of coarse have no unions...
If you really believe what you have written you are a fool...if you don't truly believe it you are a.....

t

Better check your sources. Virtually all government employees that are not management are unionized and they contribute lots of their members money to the NDP. Also there are lots of Ma & Pa stores where I live. No big box for 30 miles in any direction. The town even has a bylaw against chain stores.
Stores have no say in wether the employees are union or not. That is strictly up to the employees by provincial law.

 

[damngrumpy]

When all the companies and the Chambers of Commerce they belong to are
donating money to any political party I don't have a choice where I shop as I
wouldn't be able to buy anything. Business and Labour counter balance each
other, therefore if one can give the other can give or neither should be opening
their checkbook.
As for economic health of political parties, I think the avenue of personal donations
and the 1 dollar for every vote system is good. Somehow we think only one side
the one we are on should be heard. The other problem is if we do not have a
healthy political system, we will soon become in serious need of defending the
concept of democracy itself. I find people here are whining about our lack of this
and that while others in the world can only imagine they might see a fraction of our
level of progress in their lifetime. Our system may not be perfect but it sure beats
most of the world. That is not to say we can't improve and we should. We must
also not lose sight of what we have and we must pay more attention to what
governments and their oppositions stand for. I we were engaged citizens we would
not need to spend giant sums of money anyway because people would already be
educated as to what is happening and what is being proposed. Again we are trying
to address the symptoms of our problems, and never dealing with the main issues
that need our attention.

 

[Machjo]

Have you been hiding under a rock for all of those 61 years? Us taxpayers are forced to contribute to parties not of our choice as well as preferred one via tax dollars given on the basis of votes got in the last election. As well many of us are forced to donate to a party not of our choice via a portion of our union dues being given to the dippers.

It makes my stomach turn. Last election, I'd handed in a spoilt ballot. Did I do the right thing? I don't know. I liked the Green Party candidate to a degree, but this had nothing to do with his party affiliation. I won't deny that one reason I'd cast a spoilt ballot was in fact because of the policy you refer to. Why should the Green Party get money from a vote for a particular candidate if I'm not even voting for that party? Looking at it that way, would it not make more sense that the candidate get the money rather than his party?

I won't deny that I would most likely have voted for him had it not been for that policy. I almost voted for him in spite of the policy, but I guess I didn't like him enough to swallow that policy. Remove the policy, and you'll likely see fewer blank ballots. I did like that particular candidate, but there is no way his party should get money from my vote for him. Where does the party figure in all of this? If I vote for a candidate, that is between me and that candidate (and not even, seeing that the candidate need not know who I am), but certainly not his party sticking its nose into my ballot.

 

[polaris]

Machjo..Your understanding of vote funding is incorrect and thus your view is off kilter. Go to elections canada for information.

DAMNGRUMPY...You state that because both unions and corps donate to political campaigns it makes it equal? If I can donate $1000 and you can donate only $1, is that equal too? Go to Elections Canada and look at campaign donations from last election.
Guess which party had the biggest number of contributors who were individual private citizens?

 

[Machjo]

I tried to find it on elections Canada's website, but it's not so easy to find. I'm pretty sure though that for each vote for a party member, that party gets a dollar or something of the sort.

I'll keep looking for it on their unwieldy site, but I am positive that the party does get my dollar if I vote for its candidate. Have you got a link to the contrary?

Machjo..Your understanding of vote funding is incorrect and thus your view is off kilter. Go to elections canada for information.

DAMNGRUMPY...You state that because both unions and corps donate to political campaigns it makes it equal? If I can donate $1000 and you can donate only $1, is that equal too? Go to Elections Canada and look at campaign donations from last election.
Guess which party had the biggest number of contributors who were individual private citizens?

Strange that money should matter so much. Had I not handed in a blank ballot last election, I would most certainly have cast my vote for the Green candidate, not because he was a Green candidate or because he had mucho financing (the Cons, Libs and NDP are certainly better financed), but because he had a head on his shoulders and knew how to use it.

I don't see how increasing the Green Party's funding would have made him any more or less intelligent, just as I fail to see how reducing other parties' funding would have achieved such results.

If votes do indeed follow money, then certainly, according to your theory, I would have been attracted to the Lib or Con, no?

 

[FiveParadox]

I think it's odd to suggest that campaign spending should be proportional to the number of votes received... how does that make any sense? How can a party project, with any degree of accuracy, how many votes they're going to receive, so that they can plan their campaign financing? It's a suggestion of non-sense and impossibility. We enjoy an electoral system here that prides itself on integrity; we are lucky to have such a talented group of people in Elections Canada who do what they can to hold all parties--even Her Majesty's Government for Canada, still grappling with Elections Canada over the in-and-out scandal--responsible for their electoral behaviour.

Also, a key part of a liberal democracy is the concept of real alternatives. Our laws providing for a small contribution to each registered party, per vote, ensures that our several diverse political parties stand a reasonable chance of being able to communicate their vision to the electorate. Without that funding, it would be nearly impossible for smaller parties to get their start.

 

[CDNBear]

We enjoy an electoral system here that prides itself on integrity; we are lucky to have such a talented group of people in Elections Canada who do what they can to hold all parties...

Over all a good post 5, but I have to ask. How is letting people in a disguise vote, showing integrity, or even ethically or morally acceptable?

And I'm sure, no other party has ever used the "in and out" method eh...;-)

 

[El Barto]

I am tired of hearing about complaints of liberals this and conservatives - they both suck at times (sometimes more often than others). We constantly demand things of governments - screw the cost - (I guess, because otherwise we wouldn't be so demanding). We have no control over our own lives because government is only reflected by those who elect them which is ....us. We have more debt than at anytime in history and still we want more. We complain about the government but can't get off our **sses to actually vote on election date so we really have no one to blame but ourselves. The bickering between parties, the seemingly vile interaction between the political parties are totally unacceptable. But until we, the people, demand civilty and cooperation, it will all just continue. If we're too lazy to vote, then you must accept whatever the results. I'm sick of it!

My pledge to myself this year (note I didn't say resolution) is to complain less, do more (for my family, neighbourhood, community and city), save more and spend less. With any luck by the time I have to retire I'll have enough to eat, pay my bills and, hopefully, by a beer once in awhile and then I'll be a happy camper.

What about you?

JMO

Oh poop, I forgot the more important part - demand more from our elected officials and throw the buggers out if they don't comply. We need to bring back civility, not only to politics but to our society as a whole.

There - I'm done

Give that Dixie a cup
here here *taps on desk like a useless MP*

 

[taxslave]

Machjo..Your understanding of vote funding is incorrect and thus your view is off kilter. Go to elections canada for information.

DAMNGRUMPY...You state that because both unions and corps donate to political campaigns it makes it equal? If I can donate $1000 and you can donate only $1, is that equal too? Go to Elections Canada and look at campaign donations from last election.
Guess which party had the biggest number of contributors who were individual private citizens?

Why should it be equal? Should the wingnuts on either end get the same amount of money as the more centralist parties?
Without looking I'm betting that the dippers had the greatest number of individual contributors.

 

[relic]

"Throw the buggers out if they don't comply" well you have to have an election to do that, and nobody wants an election,some folks will just parouge to stop it. whaaaaaa they want to take my crown