Alberta Health Care – Some not so apparent facts

cyberclark

Electoral Member
[FONT=&quot]Alberta’s hospitals have in the past been owned by the Members of the Board of that hospital, not the Government.

Recent changes to the Health Authority did more than moving the Health Care from Capital Health to the more aggressive Regional Health Authorities! When this transition was done, the title for the hospitals moved away from the boards and directly onto the new Authorities! It makes it possible for the Health Authorities to sell all or any part of the Alberta holdings to the private sector without the approval of the Assembly!
The plans for privatizing health care and moving us to a US style system have been in play for many years. It is not a new thing! To the contrary, it has been the Conservative's plan going back 40 years and they are now in the position of completing it!

Even when rolling in cash, the Conservatives continued to short Health Care and it was always their first choice to cut when times got a bit skinny. Shorting money closes beds and curtails services.

You may recall the last Government being sued a few times because of this shorting and manipulation of services?

This has left this Government more vulnerable that it was in the past so they wrote “The crown cannot be held responsible for anything that goes wrong under this act” into the new legislation which also opened the door for foreign and private companies to sell health insurance into Alberta.
The Alberta Blue Cross is one of these private companies and, they have doubled their staff in the last 3 years in anticipation of insuring Albertans in the private system.

The Capital Health Authority authored a document that gave a list of which services to delist on the Alberta Health Care. This list adopted the Oregon “Services not Covered” list and it was made even leaner and meaner because the US Oregon system was seen as to frivolous.

Some of this is in effect already. Seniors prescriptions are being co-pay to a greater extent as time goes on, soon to be eliminated if these guys are elected again.

I mention the seniors prescription predicament and the erosion of Government support because that is exactly what is going to happen to your Alberta Health Care Coverage!

First Private practice funded by the Government. Next limit the amount of coverage by the Government and finally, do away with Government health insurance. All the structure is in place to do exactly this, right now!

The Conservatives, trying to spin this out are trying to create a aura of being our friends when they started the MS study. Many things they are talking about, MS study and combined pensions with the Federal Government comes to mind for the most immediate part of the charade.

None of these things will come to pass until after the next election and I predict they will be swept under the carpet and the private system and private insurance will come into full effect!

The Wild Rose Party is also pushing the same private system. This party was born in the circles of the Southern Mormon community and this community remains the core of the group. These fundamentalists were born and raised with an umbilical to Salt Lake City, abstinence, tithing and the private health insured system. In this regard their leadership is simply a shill for a similar political agenda.

This month’s publication of Vanity Fair has an article about the Taliban fundamentalists. It goes onto explain the Taliban cannot win the current contest because they continue to tell people what they are against and do not tell them what they are for but, they will still be around a long time.

I was born in Cardston.

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Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
[FONT=&quot]Alberta’s hospitals have in the past been owned by the Members of the Board of that hospital, not the Government.

Recent changes to the Health Authority did more than moving the Health Care from Capital Health to the more aggressive Regional Health Authorities! When this transition was done, the title for the hospitals moved away from the boards and directly onto the new Authorities! It makes it possible for the Health Authorities to sell all or any part of the Alberta holdings to the private sector without the approval of the Assembly!
The plans for privatizing health care and moving us to a US style system have been in play for many years. It is not a new thing! To the contrary, it has been the Conservative's plan going back 40 years and they are now in the position of completing it!

Even when rolling in cash, the Conservatives continued to short Health Care and it was always their first choice to cut when times got a bit skinny. Shorting money closes beds and curtails services.

You may recall the last Government being sued a few times because of this shorting and manipulation of services?

This has left this Government more vulnerable that it was in the past so they wrote “The crown cannot be held responsible for anything that goes wrong under this act” into the new legislation which also opened the door for foreign and private companies to sell health insurance into Alberta.
The Alberta Blue Cross is one of these private companies and, they have doubled their staff in the last 3 years in anticipation of insuring Albertans in the private system.

The Capital Health Authority authored a document that gave a list of which services to delist on the Alberta Health Care. This list adopted the Oregon “Services not Covered” list and it was made even leaner and meaner because the US Oregon system was seen as to frivolous.

Some of this is in effect already. Seniors prescriptions are being co-pay to a greater extent as time goes on, soon to be eliminated if these guys are elected again.

I mention the seniors prescription predicament and the erosion of Government support because that is exactly what is going to happen to your Alberta Health Care Coverage!

First Private practice funded by the Government. Next limit the amount of coverage by the Government and finally, do away with Government health insurance. All the structure is in place to do exactly this, right now!

The Conservatives, trying to spin this out are trying to create a aura of being our friends when they started the MS study. Many things they are talking about, MS study and combined pensions with the Federal Government comes to mind for the most immediate part of the charade.

None of these things will come to pass until after the next election and I predict they will be swept under the carpet and the private system and private insurance will come into full effect!

The Wild Rose Party is also pushing the same private system. This party was born in the circles of the Southern Mormon community and this community remains the core of the group. These fundamentalists were born and raised with an umbilical to Salt Lake City, abstinence, tithing and the private health insured system. In this regard their leadership is simply a shill for a similar political agenda.

This month’s publication of Vanity Fair has an article about the Taliban fundamentalists. It goes onto explain the Taliban cannot win the current contest because they continue to tell people what they are against and do not tell them what they are for but, they will still be around a long time.

I was born in Cardston.

[/FONT]

I must agree with a good deal of what you have written. Continued privatization has not made health care in Alberta any more efficient or affordable. On the contrary it appears to have pulled funding away from public services resulting in longer waits and an overall less effective system. One day someone will probably figure out that a for profit system cannot be run more cheaply than a non-profit system; but it will take some time given the political agenda of the current government and its privatize everything at all costs philosophy.

For the last fifteen years much of what the Alberta government is all about is selling off as many government services as possible to private businesses. This has all been done in the name of "reform" without any real reforms or efficiencies being gained. The government even attempted to privatize the public school system in the 1990s, but failed utterly when charter schools and other poorly conceived alternatives were unable to provide any advantages over the public system.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
[FONT=&quot]Alberta’s hospitals have in the past been owned by the Members of the Board of that hospital, not the Government. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Which hospital are you referring to and when?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Recent changes to the Health Authority did more than moving the Health Care from Capital Health to the more aggressive Regional Health Authorities! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Recent changes to the health authorities have done exactly the opposite. It has taken authority away from regional health authorities.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When this transition was done, the title for the hospitals moved away from the boards and directly onto the new Authorities! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Do you have a source for your misinformation?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It makes it possible for the Health Authorities to sell all or any part of the Alberta holdings to the private sector without the approval of the Assembly![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Health authorities answer to the assembly so you are wrong.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The plans for privatizing health care and moving us to a US style system have been in play for many years. It is not a new thing! To the contrary, it has been the Conservative's plan going back 40 years and they are now in the position of completing it![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The "Conservatives" don't have a plan. That is probably the biggest problem we have. When it comes to health care, they are like most other politicians in Canada and are flying by the seats of their pants. As for "American Style" health care, that is a boogie man the socialists keep throwing out in an attempt to scare people and it stopped working years ago. The top health care systems in the world are mixtures of private and public and that is the way we should be moving.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even when rolling in cash, the Conservatives continued to short Health Care and it was always their first choice to cut when times got a bit skinny. Shorting money closes beds and curtails services. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Alberta has been one of the higher per capita health care spending provinces in Canada and spending has been increasing at near twice the inflation rate for at least the last ten years.

[/FONT]http://www.cihi.ca/CIHI-ext-portal/pdf/internet/RELEASE_28OCT10_TAB3_EN[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]This entire post is nothing but scare mongering virtually void of any facts. I can only assume you are are paid by the NDP or Liberals.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
We all talk about "CANADIAN" Health Care System especially when we are trying to express our superiority over Americans.

We forget to mention one thing, because most of us lack the experience: Health care in Canada varies greatly from province to province.

While in Ontario, I could not get an MRI. I had to wait six months to see a specialist to examine the shoulder that gave me pain only to be relieved by Dilaudid (morphine) for moths, only to be told by the specialist: I only do hips and knees.

When, at long last I got to see a specialist who did shoulders, and he recommended surgery, I had to wait another six months to get that.

After the surgery and temporary relief the pain returned.

Meanwhile, my daughter in Manitoba informed us that we are about to become grandparents. So, with all my heath problems, we moved to Winnipeg.

We found a family doctor on arrival. In fairness, that may have been due to the fact that my daughter is a nurse, and knew the gentleman who became our family doctor.

After my first visit to him, he arranged for an MRI. Two weeks. Then he referred me to a rheumatologist. Three weeks. This rheumatologist prescribed a drug that had the potential to cure my chronic pain, but had the risk of detrimental effect on liver and eyes. Referral to hepatolgist and ophtalmalogist. All in a very short time.

I am happy to say that I am now completely pain-free.

So, I must conclude that the health care in Manitoba is far superior to that of Ontario.

Heaven knows, maybe I will even vote NDP.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
To comment on a few of the inputs:
The University of Alberta for years had 3 MRI units and only enough staff to run them a fraction of the time. In fact, 1 MRI ran 8 hours a day while two sat idle. This was because of a short of staff situation due to funding.

The World Health Organization has pointed out the costs for health care percapita are 20% higher in the US than it is in Canada. The comparisons taken from the GNP.

Alberta's health care spending increased above inflation? With the huge severance packages paid out of Health Care and the millions paid to bail out private clinics and pay private clinics to stay in business I can accept we paid more. This brings us to the ongoing problem with this Government of no accountability.

I was referring to all Alberta hospitals, even the prototypical hospitals put up my premier Laugheed at every election time. The hospitals were initiated with the Board of Directors as the owners of the property. The Clarits hospitals are murky as foundations are a structure used in the US to control ownership when passing off fortunes on demise. What level of accountability they have to the health authority, I don't know. But, I do know the minister dismisses out of hand he/she is not in charge of them.

I'm on no ones payroll and I support any Government other than Conservative. That should clear the air for some. My blog has been running for years and before that was Welcome to Ralph's world which, is still up but not active since Ralph left the stage. My personal vote will go towards the Liberals.

99% of what I have predicted has come true. There is no fluff.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Alberta
Alberta's health care spending increased above inflation? With the huge severance packages paid out of Health Care and the millions paid to bail out private clinics and pay private clinics to stay in business I can accept we paid more. This brings us to the ongoing problem with this Government of no accountability.

So you are saying that private clinics and severance packages is the reason why health spending out strips inflation?

I was referring to all Alberta hospitals, even the prototypical hospitals put up my premier Laugheed at every election time. The hospitals were initiated with the Board of Directors as the owners of the property. The Clarits hospitals are murky as foundations are a structure used in the US to control ownership when passing off fortunes on demise.

I'll ask again. Do you have a source for your misinformation.

What level of accountability they have to the health authority, I don't know.

That's about the only thing you have posted so far that I can agree with. Unfortunately for you, it really isn't the only thing you don't know.

I'm on no ones payroll and I support any Government other than Conservative. That should clear the air for some.

For some no doubt. You are simply not believable for me to buy the stuff you are selling.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
So you are saying that private clinics and severance packages is the reason why health spending out strips inflation?



I'll ask again. Do you have a source for your misinformation.



That's about the only thing you have posted so far that I can agree with. Unfortunately for you, it really isn't the only thing you don't know.



For some no doubt. You are simply not believable for me to buy the stuff you are selling.
Do I have a source? I was a board member for 4 years; I know exactly what goes on and I am of an age where I do not have to live off the internet for my information. As for the stats; look up the world health organization.

Give the Government at call if you are really interested.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
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Alberta
Well being on a board now tells me you are a conservative insider. That is apparent from your comment. I'm not wasting any more time on you.

It is apparent from your comment that you have no idea what you are talking about. It's good you aren't wasting your time on me. I wouldn't want you to get ideas or anything (they can be dangerous after all).
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Well being on a board now tells me you are a conservative insider. That is apparent from your comment. I'm not wasting any more time on you.


So, that's the way it works, is it?

Anyone with an opinion to the contrary is part of the conspiracy?

To comment on a few of your statements:

The University of Alberta for years had 3 MRI units and only enough staff to run them a fraction of the time. In fact, 1 MRI ran 8 hours a day while two sat idle. This was because of a short of staff situation due to funding.

Many Canadian Universities have had MRI's for many years, however, most of these are for scientific research (physics I believe) and were not designed for use on patients.

With the huge severance packages paid out of Health Care and the millions paid to bail out private clinics and pay private clinics to stay in business I can accept we paid more.

How come there's no mention that these private clinics were providing services at a fraction of the cost of what a public hospital was charging. Factor-in the reality that a private group paid for the costs associated with development. equipment and capital items and that benefit to the public gets even better.

Also, the value of the severance packages pales in comparison to the union-related costs with the public system... There is a reason that many of the senior nursing staff sign-on for "part-time' hours... They know full well that they will be called in for additional shifts and when the hospital calls them (as happens every day of every week), their hourly rate goes waaayyy up... What a coincidence, eh?

This brings us to the ongoing problem with this Government of no accountability.

The biggest problem associated to accountability in this arrangement rests wholly on the shoulders of the public at large. In terms of the basic economic equation, there is an unlimited demand from the public to consume services and there is a limited supply... It still amazes me to this day that people piss and moan about the "value" they did (or didn't ) get from the system when in fact they didn't part with one thin dime to access these hugely expensive services.

BTW - If you were on the Board, you would know that the relative tax contribution by the average tax payer don't come remotely close to recognizing the true costs of the system.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
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Alberta
Anyone with an opinion to the contrary is part of the conspiracy?

That's the funny thing about her/his posts. My opinions aren't that contrary. I think the health care system is one big cluster **** and I think the Alberta government is making things worse.

That said, I realize that it is a complex problem and it's beyond laughable to suggest that it is all the fault of a Conservative conspiracy and can be solved by a change in government. The health care system has problems in every province regardless of what party is in power.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
That's the funny thing about her/his posts. My opinions aren't that contrary. I think the health care system is one big cluster **** and I think the Alberta government is making things worse.

That said, I realize that it is a complex problem and it's beyond laughable to suggest that it is all the fault of a Conservative conspiracy and can be solved by a change in government. The health care system has problems in every province regardless of what party is in power.
It has been the Conservative dream to privatize health care. This Government has for the past 3 elections denied they were even considering it referring to it as the third rail, untouchable. How can one possibly think that they have changed their minds?

The MRI I spoke of was posted on my blog at the time, after protracted conversations with the U of A radiology department. These were not research MRI and it was just after the more recent unit was installed.

The private clinics from Calgary that got their facility free and paid nothing for rent and received all the easy replacements while the public system carried the difficult replacements quite the arena because they weren't making money. They said they jumped into the field in Alberta for free knowing the Alberta Conservatives were in a bind to get some clinics opened. I did not record the names and so on but certainly it is recent enough you will recall.

I can agree with you on expectations being out of line with the financial realities. Killing the public system is not the answer to fixing that aberration which is caused by even more exposure through the media.

In the hospital I was with, we had multi millions in operational surplus in the bank. We could not buy any capital item from this surplus and, the whole surplus was swept away by the Government as they re applied it elsewhere, not in the medial arena.

I wouldn't give you two cents for this Government score keeping and accounting practices. They are the most secretive closed door Government in the western hemisphere.

They have had ample opportunity to provide realistic documents to counter my thoughts but have steadfastly refused to do so.

There have been mulit millions paid out in severances from the various health authorities demise and for current staff terminations. More milliions have been put into hospitals in upgrades which were later sold for pennies on the dollar to private companies who operate them. The hospitals were described as being redundant by the Government.

The same Government has not increased spending since 1986 as per studies by Taft and the U of A.

I don't think there is a conservative plot of any kind. There is a continued blundering on with the Conservative dream lists with no regards to the population at all.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Alberta
It has been the Conservative dream to privatize health care.

Nope. It is common sense that a combination of public and private works best. That is why it is being done all over the world (especially in the top ranked systems) and in most if not all Canadian provinces regardless of which political party is in power.

They have had ample opportunity to provide realistic documents to counter my thoughts but have steadfastly refused to do so.

You've had ample opportunity to back up your thoughts with evidence but have steadfastly refused to do so.

http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/MRI_Scan/82-0.html

BTW - I thought you weren't wasting any more time on me. I guess that was just one more inaccurate statement from you.
 
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gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Hate to do it, but I agree with Canuck. Unless you come up with some supporting evidence or documentation, then it looks like you are just shooting off your mouth looking to get noticed.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
Hate to do it, but I agree with Canuck. Unless you come up with some supporting evidence or documentation, then it looks like you are just shooting off your mouth looking to get noticed.

I WOULD agree IF we had some politicos we could trust......................ain't never gonna happen. Have to judgem by their actions, and so far, not so good.


Not that any politico nor anyone else gives a flyin fxxk what I think.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
Nope. It is common sense that a combination of public and private works best. That is why it is being done all over the world (especially in the top ranked systems) and in most if not all Canadian provinces regardless of which political party is in power.



You've had ample opportunity to back up your thoughts with evidence but have steadfastly refused to do so.

Canada MRI Scan Clinics for Radiology and Diagnostic Imaging Clinics in Canada

BTW - I thought you weren't wasting any more time on me. I guess that was just one more inaccurate statement from you.
The private public share is further explained by this Government as being all paid under the public health system. So far; so good.
They fail to disclose the amount of services to be delisted.

The Capital Health authority made a large list of what is to be taken off Alberta Health Care coverage. This list drew on the Oregon State list of services not covered and made even meaner and leaner. One of the items reported to be in this was the curtailing of Senior Services which, they have gone after almost religiously.

They cut the optometrists and cut down the amount they pay for in drugs with reports it will soon be eliminated for all those who cannot prove to be absolutely destitute. That means you have used up the chattel in hour house and holdings before you will qualify for any type of support.

The last rewrite of the Health Act opened the door for foreign insurance companies to cover Alberta Health and in the case of Blue Cross Alberta they have more than doubled their staff in the last 3 years.

Top this with the addendum in the law that the crown cannot be held responsible for anything in the act.

This not your friendly; fuzzy buddy system. This is sharks pushing us into a private system; like it or not