RCMP's report on the long-gun registry

[Liberalman]

RCMP's report on the long-gun registry

Read it and learn

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2010/08/rcmps-report-on-the-long-gun-registry-sent-to-mps.html#gunregistry

 

[Liberalman]

long guns kill most of the people in Canada

 

[JLM]

long guns kill most of the people in Canada

Really- more than heart attacks you think?

 

[Liberalman]

Really- more than heart attacks you think?

Sorry JLM

Of all gun people kills it's the long gun that kills most of the people in Canada

 

[CDNBear]

Sorry JLM

Of all gun people kills it's the long gun that kills most of the people in Canada

As has been done in the past, you are confusing "Firearm", with long gun.

Unless you read the report differently then I.

In which case I would kindly ask that you post the section in which you take your claim from.

 

[TenPenny]

Of the deaths involving firearms (2003 numbers), 3/4 were suicides.

Only 17% were homocides. (see pages 97 etc of the report)

I also see that long guns are used in rural crimes, and handguns in urban crimes, and that 10 of 13 police deaths were by long guns. So, obviously,the point to the gun registry is to combat the tremendous wave of rural crime which is putting our police officers at risk.

 

[DurkaDurka]

The long gun registry also prevents suicides apparently, it's a versatile piece of software.....

 

[CDNBear]

The chart on page 101 speaks volumes.

 

[wulfie68]

I'm curious as to why this merited a seperate thread rather than just joining the discussion on the registry where most of this is posted as well...

 

[CDNBear]

Good point.

 

[winniethepooh]

We all know criminals don't register their guns, sheez, the report is really about keeping the huge budget. LOL

 

[Bar Sinister]

We all know criminals don't register their guns, sheez, the report is really about keeping the huge budget. LOL

The huge budget of four million a year? Let's see that works out to about 12 cents per Canadian.

Read this for a police officer's take on the usefulness of the registry.

Long-gun registry not a failure -- chief

The article is somewhat truncated, but in the full article the writer made the point that police frequently use the registry when dealing with a domestic dispute.

It sounds like very sound reasoning to me to have the police use the registry to determine if whether someone might have rifles in his/her household when on the way to a domestic dispute.

 

[Colpy]

The huge budget of four million a year? Let's see that works out to about 12 cents per Canadian.

Read this for a police officer's take on the usefulness of the registry.

Long-gun registry not a failure -- chief

The article is somewhat truncated, but in the full article the writer made the point that police frequently use the registry when dealing with a domestic dispute.

It sounds like very sound reasoning to me to have the police use the registry to determine if whether someone might have rifles in his/her household when on the way to a domestic dispute.

Okay. Once again. The registry CAN NOT tell an officer what guns are in a specific house EVEN IF they are all legal.

I might have a firearms license, with no guns registered to me, yet have a houseful of borrowed weapons registered to some OTHER person at some OTHER address....perfectly legal.

The sensible thing, if one is going to an address, would be to inquire if the owner holds a license........registration is not necessary.

Anti-gun police LOVE the registration system because when the time comes that they actually get to seize our long guns, the registry tells them where about half of them are.....

AND that is why gun owners HATE it.....they understand perfectly well that the only use for it is the confiscation of guns......which has happened in Canada repeatedly.......entire classes of firearms bought in good faith gathered up from their legal owners without compensation.....and destroyed.

We're not stupid.

And if we've been robbed by the gov't repeatedly, how stupid would we have to be to support legislation that has ONLY one use......to increase their ability to steal from us.

 

[Tonington]

Okay. Once again. The registry CAN NOT tell an officer what guns are in a specific house EVEN IF they are all legal.
...
Anti-gun police LOVE the registration system because when the time comes that they actually get to seize our long guns, the registry tells them where about half of them are.....

Contradiction. Do you have anything to back up "tells them where about half of them are...." ?

 

[Colpy]

Contradiction. Do you have anything to back up "tells them where about half of them are...." ?

I know a number of articles on the subject, but here is one from what should be a reputable source:

NEWS RELEASE

I say half because of those wonderful stats.....by the way, I own 2 firearms that are pushing hard on 100 years old, and one that is well over 100 years old........all of then are in good working order, and ammunition is readily available. Two out of the three are repeaters. Guns last a long, long time.

So, the gov't has about 7 million guns registered. Sensible extrapolation of data says there could easily be 16.5 million guns in the country.

So I was being generous with saying they would get about half of them........

 

[Tonington]

Fair enough. Now what about the contradiction? If the registry cannot tell officers what guns are in a specific house, how can the registry tell them where about half of them are?

 

[Colpy]

Fair enough. Now what about the contradiction? If the registry cannot tell officers what guns are in a specific house, how can the registry tell them where about half of them are?

If I am an officer setting out to steal on behalf of the government (read seize a certain class of weapons), I go to the registered owner's house and say "Turn over your long guns" The owner says "I lent then to my (licensed) buddy down the way" Whereupon the officer can chase them down, eventually getting them.

The officer goes to a house where there is a domestic dispute. As he was born without a brain, he checks the registry for weapons, finds there are none registered to the gentleman in question, so he approaches without caution, and gets his brains blown out, with a perfectly legal borrowed gun....or he does get a list of registered weapons at that address, seizes them, and then the guy shoots his wife and himself with a perfectly legal borrowed gun.

See the difference?

The license is the only thing that will indicate the presence of legal weapons in a household, and nobody is challenging the licensing system.

And, I have to say it, if half the guns in Canada are illegal, and we're talking MILLIONS here, what good is registration?????????

 

[Tonington]

If I am an officer setting out to steal on behalf of the government (read seize a certain class of weapons), I go to the registered owner's house and say "Turn over your long guns" The owner says "I lent then to my (licensed) buddy down the way" Whereupon the officer can chase them down, eventually getting them.

The officer goes to a house where there is a domestic dispute. As he was born without a brain, he checks the registry for weapons, finds there are none registered to the gentleman in question, so he approaches without caution, and gets his brains blown out, with a perfectly legal borrowed gun....or he does get a list of registered weapons at that address, seizes them, and then the guy shoots his wife and himself with a perfectly legal borrowed gun.

See the difference?

The difference is, in the first case, the registry isn't actually telling the officers where to find the weapon(s) and your assumption of stealing is naked rhetoric. In the second case, you have to create a straw man officer, who hasn't been to Oz yet to get a brain, and if this were true he never should have graduated from his Academy.

The registry either can inform officers that there are registered guns belonging to the household, or it cannot. It can't be both.

And please, stop using this absurd hypothetical about stupid officers. It's not even an unlikely situation- it has no place in a debate about the merits of the registry or lack thereof. If the officer is that dumb, he's as likely to get killed in a thousand other situations, in completely innocuous circumstances that normal functioning adults should not succumb to.

 

[Colpy]

The difference is, in the first case, the registry isn't actually telling the officers where to find the weapon(s) and your assumption of stealing is naked rhetoric. In the second case, you have to create a straw man officer, who hasn't been to Oz yet to get a brain, and if this were true he never should have graduated from his Academy.

The registry either can inform officers that there are registered guns belonging to the household, or it cannot. It can't be both.

And please, stop using this absurd hypothetical about stupid officers. It's not even an unlikely situation- it has no place in a debate about the merits of the registry or lack thereof. If the officer is that dumb, he's as likely to get killed in a thousand other situations, in completely innocuous circumstances that normal functioning adults should not succumb to.

Of course the registry can inform an officer that there MAY be a legal firearm at a certain address, and sometimes it will even be correct.

But it is redundant.....the license system achieves the exact same thing.....it tells you there may be a legal firearm at an address........in a more accurate manner......

Neither tells you a damn thing about illegal weapons.

There are stupid officers, and smart officers, I've worked and dealt with both.......but my analogy dealt with the stupid officer that would regard the registry as the final word on the possible presence of firearms. Obviously, the guy doesn't exist in reality, and was certainly not intended as a reflection on any real-life officer.

And tell, what exactly do you call it when an armed individual knocks on your door and demands you turn over expensive equipment that you bought perfectly legally and in good faith? Sure sounds like robbery to me.........and it has happened tens of thousands of times in Canada to gun owners, who were never compensated for their loss. Gov't mandated theft. Full stop.

One could even call it something besides theft if one were compensated....but as long as the gov't seizes arms with no compensation.....theft is what it is. No rhetoric necessary.

 

[Tonington]

Neither tells you a damn thing about illegal weapons.

Can you name any Official system which an officer can simply access to find crimes? My understanding, rudimentary as it is, is that police officers use systems to solve crimes after the fact.

I mean they've investigated psychics, but that didn't pan out. The spoon bending required two pairs of pliers...