Mayor of West Kelowna making trouble?

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
The mayor of West Kelowna has recently decreed that owners of houseboats anchored in Gellatly Bay in Okanagan Lake have to remove the houseboats. When he spoke recently on C.B.C. radio, two reasons he cited were they were an eyesore and the owners weren't paying property taxes. I say the money they are not paying on taxes is likely spent in other ways supporting business in the local community. Sewage was also expressed as a concern, but I've heard the owners are disposing of sewage in a responsible manner. Do you think the mayor is just making a "mountain out of a molehill" and trying to stir up trouble?
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Does the city have the authority over what boats are in the lake? I doubt it.

I thought houseboats were pretty much part of the BC culture.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Does the city have the authority over what boats are in the lake? I doubt it.

I thought houseboats were pretty much part of the BC culture.

The gist of what I got was they are located in a part of the lake the city has jurisdiction over, I also heard a suggestion that one solution for the boat owners was to move them further out into the lake. None of the above is carved in stone. :smile:
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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This has happened in several parts of the coast with float houses. The real problem was that the towns had no taxing authority over them and as we all know those in authority will eliminate anything they cannot tax.
I am not very familiar with the area but as I recall they are docked. This means that they could have pump out facilities like every where else.
I would have a look see what kind of foreshore lease they have, who owns the upland adjacent and who stands to gain financially by their removal.My bet is there is a developer that wants to put in high priced housing in the upland area and wants the foreshore for a private marina for his development.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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This has happened in several parts of the coast with float houses. The real problem was that the towns had no taxing authority over them and as we all know those in authority will eliminate anything they cannot tax.
I am not very familiar with the area but as I recall they are docked. This means that they could have pump out facilities like every where else.
I would have a look see what kind of foreshore lease they have, who owns the upland adjacent and who stands to gain financially by their removal.My bet is there is a developer that wants to put in high priced housing in the upland area and wants the foreshore for a private marina for his development.
You may recall Taxslave that, that happened right here in Nanaimo a year or so ago. The boat owners were really un-happy of course but the people in the City were not un-happy with the decision. Those people do live on their boats to avoid taxes, hydro etc. There are not enough of them to say they bring any revenue to the city. What would happen if a whole bunch of us (or the people in the Okanagan) bought a boat and moved into it - permanently? It's not the way most of us want to live but they do live that way and they do not maintain their boats. They do become an eyesore. The Okanagan thrives on tourism just like Vancouver Island does. At least we did until David Hahn destroyed our tourist industry with the horrid cost of riding on his boats.
The people love to visit the beaches in the Okanagan and the beaches there are lovely. I wouldn't want things ruined by a bunch of (even a few) old run down boats on the dock.
TENPENNY - Houseboats are not the norm here. The Shuswap has a number of houseboats they rent out to people who want to spend a few days out on the lake. It is less common in other areas.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Aren't a lot of float houses moored at marinas who pay federal. provincial and civil taxes? Do these homes meet code? Are they insurable?
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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The mayor of West Kelowna has recently decreed that owners of houseboats anchored in Gellatly Bay in Okanagan Lake have to remove the houseboats. When he spoke recently on C.B.C. radio, two reasons he cited were they were an eyesore and the owners weren't paying property taxes. I say the money they are not paying on taxes is likely spent in other ways supporting business in the local community. Sewage was also expressed as a concern, but I've heard the owners are disposing of sewage in a responsible manner. Do you think the mayor is just making a "mountain out of a molehill" and trying to stir up trouble?

As for the 'eyesore' argument, that is pure subjectivity.

Taxation? What? They don't pay income tax? They don't pay GST?

As for sewage, that could be a valuable argument indeed. But then the question is, are they in fact dumping the sewage into the river or disposing of it appropriately or recycling it appropriately? Certainly they ought to pay severe fines if they dump sewage into the river. But that is a separate issue from whether they are mooring on the river. But it certainly ought to be investigated.

From what I'd read about wilderness survival, sewage ought never to be dumped closer than 100 metres from the water supply out of respect for others who may be downstream. In an urban environment, obviously the rules might need to be stricter than that. It would seem to me that that mayor was shooting from the hip with his arguments and by chance came across a valid one. Sure it shows his unfounded prejudices from the start and so weakens his credibility here, but the question of sewage is certainly one worth investigating at least.

As for taxes, all he has to do is propose that the province or federal government raise income taxes or resource taxes, etc. and transfer some of that money to the local community. That's not a taxation issue anymore but rather intergovernmental disputes over the distribution of that tax money.

This has happened in several parts of the coast with float houses. The real problem was that the towns had no taxing authority over them and as we all know those in authority will eliminate anything they cannot tax.
I am not very familiar with the area but as I recall they are docked. This means that they could have pump out facilities like every where else.
I would have a look see what kind of foreshore lease they have, who owns the upland adjacent and who stands to gain financially by their removal.My bet is there is a developer that wants to put in high priced housing in the upland area and wants the foreshore for a private marina for his development.

Brilliant. Legislate them into homelessness and then sell them houses they can't afford, force them into debt, and then cry about Canadians being financially irresponsible and putting a burden on future generations.:lol:

Personally, the government ought to look at areas it can deregulate precisely to help the poor. We cry foul when they ask for help from the government, and then cry foul when they try to live within their means. Something's got to give.

If we legislate them into a lifestyle they can't afford or into dependence, then we have no right to then cry foul when they can't find work because of too much red tape, or can't find an affordable home because of too much red tape, etc.

I don't consider myself to be particularly socialist, but on the other hand, when we legislate the poor out of a home, we're asking for it.

You may recall Taxslave that, that happened right here in Nanaimo a year or so ago. The boat owners were really un-happy of course but the people in the City were not un-happy with the decision. Those people do live on their boats to avoid taxes, hydro etc. There are not enough of them to say they bring any revenue to the city. What would happen if a whole bunch of us (or the people in the Okanagan) bought a boat and moved into it - permanently? It's not the way most of us want to live but they do live that way and they do not maintain their boats. They do become an eyesore. The Okanagan thrives on tourism just like Vancouver Island does. At least we did until David Hahn destroyed our tourist industry with the horrid cost of riding on his boats.
The people love to visit the beaches in the Okanagan and the beaches there are lovely. I wouldn't want things ruined by a bunch of (even a few) old run down boats on the dock.
TENPENNY - Houseboats are not the norm here. The Shuswap has a number of houseboats they rent out to people who want to spend a few days out on the lake. It is less common in other areas.

To legislate against 'eyesores' is a pretty flimsy argument to make a law.

As for taxes, that's a little more legitimate. But again, are you saying we couldn't find a way to tax them? Raise income tax. Raise resource taxes. Bingo. Also, if that water is within the city's jurisdiction, then either sell it or charge rent on it.

So ... it boils down to the old "I-am-better-than-you" syndrome. Isn't it funny how the Laws come out only AFTER someone is offended that his view is hampered.

Exactly. Who owns the view? Can sue an airline for having a plane pass by a mountain just as I was looking at it, for having hampered my view?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
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Vernon, B.C.
You may recall Taxslave that, that happened right here in Nanaimo a year or so ago. The boat owners were really un-happy of course but the people in the City were not un-happy with the decision. Those people do live on their boats to avoid taxes, hydro etc.
.

VanIsle- If they are not using "Hydro", why should they pay for it? As for property taxes, that is also a pretty shaky argument. What property do they actually own? Are they getting fire protection, roads, sidewalks etc.? I think they probably deserve to get a small levy to cover incidentals like the hospital, schools etc. but they are certainly not getting the service that conventional home owners get. If they needed the police for some emergency would they get a timely response? I doubt it.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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The mayor of West Kelowna has recently decreed that owners of houseboats anchored in Gellatly Bay in Okanagan Lake have to remove the houseboats. When he spoke recently on C.B.C. radio, two reasons he cited were they were an eyesore and the owners weren't paying property taxes. I say the money they are not paying on taxes is likely spent in other ways supporting business in the local community. Sewage was also expressed as a concern, but I've heard the owners are disposing of sewage in a responsible manner. Do you think the mayor is just making a "mountain out of a molehill" and trying to stir up trouble?
Hasn't a leg to stand on. In this instance, the use of the lake is a federal one pertaining to navigation, I think. - http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/PRB-e/PRB0448-e.pdf
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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Aren't a lot of float houses moored at marinas who pay federal. provincial and civil taxes? Do these homes meet code? Are they insurable?
I'm not sure what the "houses" are on Okanagan Lake but - I know that here they were just old boats that closed up enough for people to call them "home". Anyone who thinks these people (for the most part) don't put all their trash into the water is mistaken. They do! Most boats are insurable. We used to own a large boat but the cost of the insurance far exceeded our house insurance because even though it was no where near being a yatch, that's what the insurance company called it due to it's length. We took our chances! While I myself would hate living in a boat on the water, imagine what it would be like if say - even 50 people deceided to do it. I would avoid any dock like that.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Anyone who thinks these people (for the most part) don't put all their trash into the water is mistaken. They do!
Really? OK Lake is large but it also has a lot of houseboats on it. Why isn't the water plugged up with debris then? Shuswap Lake should be even worse.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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As far as I know all the live aboards pay taxes, in that they pay moorage to the marina which pays taxes. What the cities don't like is that the foreshore leases are provincial so that is where their tax money goes. It really is all about who gets the money.
For many years we would tie up our float camps near where we were logging and move them when we went to the next spot. The provincial government didn't like what they called free rent so now one must get a foreshore lease even when you are only there for 2 or 3 months. Big pain in the ass and very slow. SOmetimes we would be done logging and moved before the lease came through. They call that bureaucratic efficiency. Now the FS has all the leases in place and you just assume it for the period you are there. And pay of course.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
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I can understand the complaint regarding them being an eyesore. I don't want to give the impression that I am supporting the many rich home owners on the lake, but if I were lucky enough to own on that lake I would not want to have to stare at their houseboats all day. My main concern however is garbage and sewage. If they are going to be living on the water then I would want the local authorities to be hyper vigilant monitoring the disposal of garbage and sewage.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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I can understand the complaint regarding them being an eyesore. I don't want to give the impression that I am supporting the many rich home owners on the lake, but if I were lucky enough to own on that lake I would not want to have to stare at their houseboats all day. My main concern however is garbage and sewage. If they are going to be living on the water then I would want the local authorities to be hyper vigilant monitoring the disposal of garbage and sewage.
Ditto.
Concerning the eyesore thing. There are shiploads of communities that have residents complaining about other people's structures ruining their views. Even some communities that complain about it, but grant permission to developers that want to build highrises, large condos, etc. right on shorelines. It is about the money, for sure.