Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

jason99954

New Member
May 23, 2010
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Hello everyone,

Recently I was studying with a group of friends about Canadian social welfare and someone suggested a question: "should government make cuts to social welfare spending during
economic downturns?" We thought it would be an interesting question to discuss upon so we divided up into three groups according to the Canadian political parties (the Liberals, the NDP, and the Conservatives) and will be presenting out ideas based on what political party we are in (to answer this question from the point of view of that political party).

I am in the Liberal party but I am not that familiar with it. So based on what I have learned, I analyzed the question and put down what I think the Liberals would do if they were in the situation. For people out there who belong to the Canadian Liberal party, can you please let me know what you think about my argument? For people who belong to the NDP and the Conservative party, please feel free to share your point of view as well :smile:

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Should government make cuts to social welfare spending during
economic downturns? – From the point of view of Liberalism along with Keynesian’s economic ideas.

[The Liberal party prefers action over ideology - the idea of pragmatism, one of the characteristics of the Liberal ideology. On a continuum of the political parties in Canada, the Liberals avoid to end up being in either extreme of the continuum (i.e. the NDP and the Conservatives) so that they are free from the unnecessary restrains that might prevent them achieving their goal.]

While the Liberals endorse the idea of a free market system, they also believe that the market should be regulated by the government to a degree and to provide a minimum of income security benefits. From the point of view of Liberalism, government intervention is necessary if we want to let the society remain stable and to have it grow constantly overtime.

According to the concepts of individualism and liberty of the Liberal ideology, if we were to let the free market system runs freely without government intervention, our nation would become prosperous as each individual would go and pursue his own interest and maximize his utility. The disadvantage of having a free market system is, however, that some people are going to become extremely rich and some are going to become extremely poor depending on various personal and situational factors. The result is that the society’s wealth is most likely going to be concentrated only on the hands of a few individuals, and a great proportion of the population would suffer from various degrees of poverty and unemployment. This contradicts the Liberals’ goal of maintaining a stable society, and the gap exists between the rich and the poor would become irremediable. Therefore, it is important for the government to intervene the free market through controlling government spending, which includes controlling its social welfare spending.

Now the question is, should the government make cuts to social welfare spending , as a way to decrease government deficit, during
economic downturns? I wish to analyze this question through John Maynard Keynes’s economic theory. This should be appropriate as Keynesian’s economic theory was initially inspired by the Liberal ideology; if we wish to have stable economy and society, then the free market system does need a degree of government intervention to avoid problems such as high levels of unemployment and poverty.

To begin, let’s first define the concepts of aggregate demand and aggregate supply. Aggregate demand represents the total amount of goods and services wanted by the individuals and the public (the government) within a nation. Aggregate supply represents the total amount of goods and services that is supplied by the economy. In an economy, the point where the aggregate demand is equal to the aggregate supply, meaning that the amount of goods demanded by a nation is equal to the amount of goods supplied by a nation, is at equilibrium and the resulting society is said to be stable and will grow constantly overtime.

When the economy is in a recession, where the aggregate supply is greater than the aggregate demand since people do not have the sufficient income to purchase the goods produced by the economy, it has been deviated from a stable society to one where there is a high level of unemployment. At this time, those are unemployed, having no sources of income, would have to withdraw their savings from their bank to consume. As Keynes argue that when there is no savings, there would be no investment and no growth in our capital, so there would be no economic growth for the nation. This is undesirable and it contradicts the Liberals’ goal of wanting the society to grow overtime. Therefore, it is important for the economy to eliminate the excess unemployment and to go back to its equilibrium level.

One obvious way to do this is to increase the aggregate demand so that it equates the aggregate supply. Now there are two major ways to do this: either by increasing spending from the individuals in the society, or by increasing spending from the government (i.e. the public). The former option is characterized by making cuts to social welfare spending through lowering tax rates, and the latter is characterized by an increase in government spending through increasing tax rates, meaning an increase in social welfare spending. Let’s analyze each of them separately.

If the government makes cuts to social welfare spending through a decrease in tax rates during a recession, it means each individual in the economy gets to keep more of their income to spend or to save. If we want to get out of the recession, it is important for us to simulate the economy through individuals increase their spending and thereby increase the aggregate demand. During an economic recession however, people are more likely to save that extra proportion of income to their bank account rather than spending it. This is true because on a psychological level, individuals tend to have pessimistic views of the future when the economy is in a recession and they would want to save more money in case of emergencies. The economy is more likely to remain in recession than to go back to its equilibrium state. The problems of recession such as high levels of unemployment and poverty continue to persist.

If the government makes no cuts to social welfare spending, or even increases in social welfare spending through a increase in tax rates during a recession, it means that although each individual would keep a smaller proportion of his income, the economy is going to be stimulated by an increase in the aggregate demand through an increase in government’s spending on social welfare and all other forms of government spending. When the economy is back to its equilibrium state, where the aggregate demand is equal to the aggregate supply, the problems of recession such as high levels of unemployment and poverty get to be eliminated, and the society as a whole would become stable and would grow overtime.

Through the above examination, government should not make cuts to social welfare spending economic downturns.
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Concerns:

*Would the argument be too economically based instead of politically based?
**Is there anything that the Liberal party has done in the past that is consistent with the above presented idea?

English is not my first language so in case if there is a grammatical mistake or two, please bear it with me lol.

Jason
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
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Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

Martin cut transfer payments to the provinces' health care, crippling health care for decades just so he could balance the budget for a couple years. As far as I can tell, health care is a part of social welfare. It is a stupid thing to do.
Or did you mean like welfare as in aid to to poor people? In which case, I doubt the feds have much to do with it.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

In a recession Canada should stop sending welfare to other countries in the form of foreign aid and take care of Canadians first.

Why should Canadians who have fallen on hard times live like people in third world countries let the rich take care of those countries during the recession.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

In a recession Canada should stop sending welfare to other countries in the form of foreign aid and take care of Canadians first.

Why should Canadians who have fallen on hard times live like people in third world countries let the rich take care of those countries during the recession.


Great idea. So halfway through a project to help out some struggling village in the developing world Canada should pull up stakes and bugger off. That would certainly help our international image.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,407
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Low Earth Orbit
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

Who came up with this stupid idea?

In a recession Canada should stop sending welfare to other countries in the form of foreign aid and take care of Canadians first.
2/3 of CPP investments are offshore investments.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

There's a huge difference in the CPP fund investing capital for an ROI as opposed to goodwill projects that simply consume capital.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

Great idea. So halfway through a project to help out some struggling village in the developing world Canada should pull up stakes and bugger off. That would certainly help our international image.

Maybe you can explain that to our homeless or hungry or needy family that their kids will have to starve a little while longer because the struggling village in another country needs our help.

The responsibility to our citizens outweighs international image besides letting our own people die in the streets would create a negative international image.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

Maybe you can explain that to our homeless or hungry or needy family that their kids will have to starve a little while longer because the struggling village in another country needs our help.

The responsibility to our citizens outweighs international image besides letting our own people die in the streets would create a negative international image.


No doubt; All funds should be directed towards internal (Canada) projects and development. If and when there are any surplus funds left over, perhaps tose can be directed to foreign purposes.

Canada has far too many national issues that require address before we run round solving the problems of the world.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
1
18
Alberta
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

We need the immigration but I do agree training people for jobs.

Negative. Quantity won't do as much good. The problem is that we need the right kind of immigrants. There are a lot of immigrants in the LML but you'll be hard pressed to find a Chinese person working construction - even though they make up a majority of the population demographic in Richmond and are spread out all over the LML.


Just like here in the Okanagan, I'll buy you a burger if you can find me a lot of immigrants willing to work on farms here...

As it stands our immigration system is failing to deliver on promises. We're told we need immigrants and yes we do need them in order to work in our resource industries (which is vital to all of Canada' economy) but as it stands most immigrants from East and South Asia tend to stay away from that and rather collect welfare or compete for jobs in the tech and business sectors.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

The IMF speaks and Greece and Latvia make the necessary cuts demanded by the banking masters, sometimes cuts of this nature are used to incite revolt, which gets the ball rolling for clamp downs martial law and further safer cutting in the near future.

Canadas foriegn aid is all image, we have never saved educated or fed a single child where we have not killed starved and deprived ten more. Our foriegn economic model is exploitative and brutal, that's just the western norm. Hatians are dying by our help right now.
 

dreamwatcher

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
34
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6
Edmonton
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

We must train our own Canadians for the trades, and professions. Bring in only immigrants who can contribute to our society (during a recession) Turn to our own Canadian's in need first. No welfare cuts. or health care cuts. or pension cuts. Look after our own "Canadian village" There is plenty of rolling up of sleeves, and tackling our own problems. We should continue to give as individuals to charities that work outside our own country. Did you know that World Vision has programs right here in Canada? I was floored. This is appalling to me. I had to read their brochure twice.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,407
11,455
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Low Earth Orbit
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

But it's not a donation, right? It's intent is that of a loan with interest attached.
You are the one who came up with 'good will projects". Investing in our own country isn't worth it? Is it all about money or is it about building our own nation with our own money. You prefer going into debt with stimulus spending?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
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Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

NO. Cut immigration and train people for jobs.
Bingo.
I know a few people that had very nice cushy jobs and then got laid off. Instead of getting jobs that would at least help a little it was straight to the EI till the payments ran out and then it was to the food banks. But would they get 2 or 3 jobs washing dishes? Nope. Waiting to get their cushy job back (or one like it).
I have a friend who's a single Mum working 3 jobs (sales clerk, bartender/server, and another min. wage job I can't remember, and she's managing.
The gov'ts want to mess with welfare for the poor, get the poor doing something to earn their checks. It'll make the poor feel better to be useful and the gov'ts will get work out of the deal.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
2
38
The World
Re: Discussion: should government make cuts to welfare spending during
recession?

Do people that are NOT on welfare during a recession have to endure cuts? I know that my income dropped significantly (retirement income by the way, which can't be replaced).

If the working people, and those that are paying their own way have to endure cuts, so should those being supported by the government.