Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Liberalman

#1Mar 31st, 2010

Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/03/30/13411076.html

After the hissy-fits of the Conservative MPs at airports Canada got to watch a hissy-fit from the iron lady herself U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton

"You can not have maternal health without reproductive health," Clinton said during a news conference with G8 foreign ministers. "And reproductive health includes contraception, and family planning and access to legal, safe abortion."

I always thought family planning was to prevent a pregnancy.

Abortion has nothing to do with reproductive health in fact it can damage reproductive health.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is clearly showing that she is a loose cannon and a liability to the Democrats and she should be put into a less public role but I can’t really say that because I am not American but she has to respect the Canadian point of view that abortion is a contentious issue like it is in America.

Canada has a government that ran on and anti-abortion and anti-gay rights platform and won a minority government.

The Conservative base is the bible belt of the prairies including the Christian right Albertans.

Stephen Harper is the David who is protecting the Canadian fetuses from the international Goliaths that just want to kill babies and feel good about it.

JLM

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

As far as I'm concerned the only thing that supercedes the right of the fetus is the life of the mother.

wulfie68

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

I always thought family planning was to prevent a pregnancy.

Not necessarily. Family planning deals with planning how to cope with the size of family. It asks questions like can you care for and support more children? If not, how do you prevent pregnancy? What are the options if you have a pregnancy that is beyond your means to support and care for? It looks at ALL options, be they contraception, adoption (both as adoptees and giving up children), and things like abortion. Its not just a one-stop abortion shop like its portrayed by some politicos.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

Abortion has nothing to do with reproductive health in fact it can damage reproductive health.

If its done improperly, sure it can, just as any improperly performed surgery has its risks. Not having an abortion in some cases can also have long lasting effects on the mental health of a woman, particularly a victim of rape/incest.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

Canada has a government that ran on and anti-abortion and anti-gay rights platform and won a minority government.

Partially false at best. The Conservative party threw the social conservatives a bone and said they would re-examine gay marriage, and I happen to believe that there are alternatives (such as making marriage and civil unions equal and both types of social partnerships that have equal legal rights, as opposed to getting the religious zealots worked up about nothing). Nothing was said about abortion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

The Conservative base is the bible belt of the prairies including the Christian right Albertans.

Again with the baseless Alberta slamming, when other posters have presented stats and articles attesting to Alberta's level of religion (lower than Ontario's) and tolerance (one of the greater ones in the nation) in other threads. At this point I am forced to conclude that your demonstrated lack of grammatical skill is accompanied by a lack of reading comprehension as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

Stephen Harper is the David who is protecting the Canadian fetuses from the international Goliaths that just want to kill babies and feel good about it.

More baseless and unfounded hysteria from the Loony Left. Go back to bowing at Trudeau's grave and worshipping the most divisive prime minister to ever try and ruin the country.

As for me, I believe the rights of the mother come first, even if I find abortion to be something distasteful. Its not my body, or the government's to regulate/decide things for.

JLM

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

"As for me, I believe the rights of the mother come first, even if I find abortion to be something distasteful. Its not my body, or the government's to regulate/decide things for."
I think it's presumptuous to make decisions about the fetus, when the fetus doesn't get to have a say.

wulfie68

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I think it's presumptuous to make decisions about the fetus, when the fetus doesn't get to have a say.

If the fetus was capable of surviving on its own, I might agree with you but it can't: it is essentially a parasite. Thats a pretty cold way to look at it, I know, but its true none the less. I think its presumptuous to deny a woman the right to get rid of it. In cases of rape, that would mean that genetic material from a violent criminal has more rights than his victim does. Thats wrong on far too many levels for me.

I'm not a fan of abortion as a means of birth control but I don't think anyone has the right to remove control of their body from a capable adult.

JLM

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68

If the fetus was capable of surviving on its own, I might agree with you but it can't: it is essentially a parasite. Thats a pretty cold way to look at it, I know, but its true none the less. I think its presumptuous to deny a woman the right to get rid of it. In cases of rape, that would mean that genetic material from a violent criminal has more rights than his victim does. Thats wrong on far too many levels for me.

I'm not a fan of abortion as a means of birth control but I don't think anyone has the right to remove control of their body from a capable adult.

I think you make a good case in the event of rape, but I think that is where I'd have to draw the line. The "convenience" of the mother just doesn't cut it.

YukonJack

Conservative

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

"I'm not a fan of abortion as a means of birth control but I don't think anyone has the right to remove control of their body from a capable adult."

How about being a capable adult controling your body BEFORE your act creates another life that you are so ready to snuff out for nothing but convenience?

Kreskin

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I think you make a good case in the event of rape, but I think that is where I'd have to draw the line. The "convenience" of the mother just doesn't cut it.

Who decides if it is rape? How long does that process take?

JLM

No Party Affiliation

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin

Who decides if it is rape? How long does that process take?

That is a damn good question- obviously with time being of the essence, there's not a court in the land that could decide it- which I suppose kind of puts the whole issue at a theoretical level.

foukay

Free Thinker

#10

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

I'm definitely against abortion, except in the case of rape. I also think that there should be an acception for teen Mothers. Of course, they shouldn't even be getting pregnant in the first place, so they wouldn't even have to consider abortion as a possibility. All in all, it's hard to completely go against abortion.

selin

Free Thinker

#11

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

"As for me, I believe the rights of the mother come first, even if I find abortion to be something distasteful. Its not my body, or the government's to regulate/decide things for."
I think it's presumptuous to make decisions about the fetus, when the fetus doesn't get to have a say.

i agree with you.

AnnaG

#12

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

I am against abortion even in the case of rape. A child can always be given over to adoption.
I am also against abortion as a convenience.
I am against abortion in cases of contraceptive failure. (Adoption is a better alternative).
I am for abortion if pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or if the child will only lead a life of misery such as in the case of anencephaly, Tay-Sachs, etc.
In the vast majority of cases there are viable and better alternatives to abortion.

TenPenny

#13

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

I figure that it's up to the woman and man involved to make decisions about abortions.

Not up to me, or the PM, or the local priest, or anybody else.

AnnaG

#14

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

I figure that it's up to the woman and man involved to make decisions about abortions.

Not up to me, or the PM, or the local priest, or anybody else.

That, too.

coldstream

#15

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Who does Hilary think she is. Abortion is the great holocaust of our times.

An entire generation, 50 million children have been murdered in the U.S. alone in the last 40 years. The arrogance of the U.S. Obama administration, with its intent entrenching abortion and homosexuality (as a 'right'), not only on its own population.. through its health care and military enlistment agendas.. but in the rest of the world as well is overwhelming.

Hilary is proving herself to be the 'Ugly American'.. the diplomatic front for an aggressive and imperial U.S. world strategy. It used to be the Cold War, now its the abased policies of post-structural social agendas, and the disastrous Liberal Economics of Free Trade and monetarism.

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#16

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

"As for me, I believe the rights of the mother come first, even if I find abortion to be something distasteful. Its not my body, or the government's to regulate/decide things for."
I think it's presumptuous to make decisions about the fetus, when the fetus doesn't get to have a say.

It would be presumptuous if fetus were a human being. There is no evidence that it is.

Anyway, I don't understand the title of the thread. How is Canada alone on anti-abortion?

TenPenny

#17

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

The whole G8/health thing had nothing to do with abortion, except in the minds of those who want to create an issue where there is none.

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#18

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I think you make a good case in the event of rape, but I think that is where I'd have to draw the line. The "convenience" of the mother just doesn't cut it.

That is the classical conservative position, JLM. I know you don’t like to be called a conservative, but it is not my fault that you take conservative positions on issue after issue.

Why is rape different from any other pregnancy? The woman must have the full freedom to decide whether any pregnancy will go to completion, whether as a result of rape or not.

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#19

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack

"I'm not a fan of abortion as a means of birth control but I don't think anyone has the right to remove control of their body from a capable adult."

How about being a capable adult controling your body BEFORE your act creates another life that you are so ready to snuff out for nothing but convenience?

It is only the Pope and other religious extremists who claim that life begins at conception. There is no scientific evidence for it. When it comes to science, I much perfer to believe scientists, rather than believe religious extremists.

AnnaG

#20

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

It would be presumptuous if fetus were a human being. There is no evidence that it is.

And yet more ignorance of the facts, but in Canada in the legal sense, you are right. Section 223 of the Criminal Code says babies are only humna after emerging from the mother. So test tube babies are human from day one, preemies are human, and the rest aren't. This is ridiculous, but what can you expect from politicians but ridiculous POVs and laws?
In the other contexts, you are dead wrong. Human life starts from first cellular division, according to geneticists, and the rest consider babies to be human as embryos, fetuses, etc.

Last edited by AnnaG; Mar 31st, 2010 at 12:35 PM..

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#21

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by foukay

I'm definitely against abortion, except in the case of rape. I also think that there should be an acception for teen Mothers. Of course, they shouldn't even be getting pregnant in the first place, so they wouldn't even have to consider abortion as a possibility. All in all, it's hard to completely go against abortion.

It is hard to put any kind of restrictions on abortion. There are no reasonable arguments for it, only the religious arguments. The only reason to ban or restrict abortion is because it is against somebody's religious beliefs.

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#22

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

The whole G8/health thing had nothing to do with abortion, except in the minds of those who want to create an issue where there is none.

Indeed, that is why I said, I don't understand the title of the thread. I think he just wants to discus abortion.

AnnaG

#23

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

It is only the Pope and other religious extremists who claim that life begins at conception. There is no scientific evidence for it. When it comes to science, I much perfer to believe scientists, rather than believe religious extremists.

I guess geneticists aren't scientists according to you. roflmao

SirJosephPorter

No Party Affiliation

#24

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68

Partially false at best. The Conservative party threw the social conservatives a bone and said they would re-examine gay marriage, and I happen to believe that there are alternatives (such as making marriage and civil unions equal and both types of social partnerships that have equal legal rights, as opposed to getting the religious zealots worked up about nothing). Nothing was said about abortion.

You are right about throwing a bone to religious conservatives about gay marriage. Harper lost one election to Martin and gay marriage played an important part in it. Harper wants to win above everything else. So in the next campaign he promised that he won’t use the NW Clause to stop gay marriage.

But he had to throw a bone to his base, the religious conservatives. So he agreed to revisit the issue. After he became the PM, he did the minimum possible to fulfill the promise, but no more.

He did not introduce legislation in the House of Commons outlawing gay marriage. He introduced resolution in the Commons asking the MPs whether he should bring a legislation to ban gay marriage.

He gave his MPs a big enough loophole to drive a truck through it. Conservative MPs could claim that while they are against gay marriage, it is not really in the interest of the country to dig up the settled issue. They were not voting for gay marriage, they were simply voting against digging up the issue. Many more Conservative MPs voted not to dig up the issue than originally did to legalize gay marriage.

So Harper fulfilled his promise to his base (barely) and he washed his hands of the whole thing.

Last edited by SirJosephPorter; Mar 31st, 2010 at 12:47 PM..

AnnaG

#25

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

You are right about throwing a bone to religious conservatives about gay marriage. Harper lost one election to Martin and gay marriage played an important part in it. Harper wants to win above everything else. So in the next campaign he promised that he won’t use the NW Clause to stop gay marriage.

But he had to throw a bone to his base, the religious conservatives. So he agreed to revisit the issue. After he became the PM, he did the minimum possible to fulfill the promise, but no more.

He did not introduce legislation in the House of Commons outlawing gay marriage. He introduced resolution in the Commons asking the MPs whether he should bring a legislation to ban gay marriage.

He gave his MPs a big enough loophole to drive a truck through it. Conservative MPs could claim that while they are against gay marriage, it is not really in the interest of the country to dig up the settled issue. They were not voting against gay marriage, they were simply voting against digging up the issue. Many more Conservative MPs voted not to dig up the issue than originally did to legalize gay marriage.

So Harper fulfilled his promise to his base (barely) and he washed his hands of the whole thing.

The topic is abortion, not gay rights.

Avro

No Party Affiliation

#26

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

I am against abortion even in the case of rape. A child can always be given over to adoption.
I am also against abortion as a convenience.
I am against abortion in cases of contraceptive failure. (Adoption is a better alternative).
I am for abortion if pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or if the child will only lead a life of misery such as in the case of anencephaly, Tay-Sachs, etc.
In the vast majority of cases there are viable and better alternatives to abortion.

Agreed....I would add a few however.

If the baby is deemed to be morbidly handicapped I would support abortion.

I find it funny how cons wouldn't allow abortion and at the same time call for cuts to social spending that helps single Moms cope with raising a child alone when the Dad has frigged off. Having said that we also have to do a better job of collecting from dead beat Dads especially if you are forcing women to have babies they did not want....and of course in rare occurrences you have to go after dead beat Moms as well.

#juan

No Party Affiliation

#27

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Canada has a pretty enlightened approach to abortion. We certainly don't need some cow like Hillary Clinton to preach to us.

AnnaG

#28

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

Canada has a pretty enlightened approach to abortion. We certainly don't need some cow like Hillary Clinton to preach to us.

Ditto that.

foukay

Free Thinker

#29

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

It is hard to put any kind of restrictions on abortion. There are no reasonable arguments for it, only the religious arguments. The only reason to ban or restrict abortion is because it is against somebody's religious beliefs.

True. It's just that the idea of abortion is somthing like deliberately killing a living being, which is basically almost like murder. It's morally incorrect.

CDNBear

#30

Re: Canada Stands Alone On Anti-abortion

Mar 31st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

It is hard to put any kind of restrictions on abortion. There are no reasonable arguments for it, only the religious arguments. The only reason to ban or restrict abortion is because it is against somebody's religious beliefs.

BS, it's actually a life.

It matters not whether some God says it is or isn't.

The minute the cell splits, it's life. I respect all life.

That said, I still respect the fact that I as a man, should not have a say over another persons body.

But I just felt compelled to address the absurdity of your parroted doctrine. Can we expect something new anytime soon? Or is this all you have?

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