Why Canada isn't seeking Omar Khadr's Return?


Tyler
#1
Can someone provide one legal reason how the Canadian government can refuse to seek Omar Khadr's repatriation?

The Federal Court of Canada and the Court of Appeals had already concluded that the government has the obligation to seek his repatriation. Although the Supreme Court has stopped short from asking that, it agreed that Khadr's rights have been violated.

Us, laymen, can argue about what rights he waived, and how guilty he is, etc... etc... but at the end of the day, it's been concluded by the judicial branch that his rights have indeed been denied.

What legal reasoning does our government have to refuse to do what's right? Is the government blatantly violating the Charter just because they can?

Canada Does Not Guarantee Canadian Rights and Freedoms | Blables.com (external - login to view)
 
CDNBear
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by TylerView Post

Can someone provide one legal reason how the Canadian government can refuse to seek Omar Khadr's repatriation?

The Federal Court of Canada and the Court of Appeals had already concluded that the government has the obligation to seek his repatriation. Although the Supreme Court has stopped short from asking that, it agreed that Khadr's rights have been violated.

Us, laymen, can argue about what rights he waived, and how guilty he is, etc... etc... but at the end of the day, it's been concluded by the judicial branch that his rights have indeed been denied.

What legal reasoning does our government have to refuse to do what's right? Is the government blatantly violating the Charter just because they can?

Canada Does Not Guarantee Canadian Rights and Freedoms | Blables.com (external - login to view)

Because there's no legal precident to force the Gov't to petition the Americans to return him.

Besides that, who the hell wants the terrorist scum back here? Let him rot in Gitmo.
 
gerryh
#3
That's right....f*ckin 15 year olds caught hiding behind rubble in afghanistan should rot in american jails.
 
Slim Chance
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by TylerView Post

Can someone provide one legal reason how the Canadian government can refuse to seek Omar Khadr's repatriation?


What legal reasoning does our government have to refuse to do what's right?


One reason is that the the Canadian government is not in the business of dictating the domestic or judicial policy that applies in another nation.

What's "right" is that Khadr answer for his crimes in the jurisdiction where it was committed.
 
CDNBear
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That's right....f*ckin 15 year olds caught hiding behind rubble in afghanistan should rot in american jails.

At 15 did you know right from wrong?

Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

One reason is that the the Canadian government is not in the business of dictating the domestic or judicial policy that applies in another nation.

Bingo!

Quote:

What's "right" is that Khadr answer for his crimes in the jurisdiction where it was committed.

Now you're a member that knows what time it is...send him back to Afghanistan.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#6
[quote=CDNBear;1224173]At 15 did you know right from wrong?

quote]

At 15 could you be manipulated?
 
gerryh
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

One reason is that the the Canadian government is not in the business of dictating the domestic or judicial policy that applies in another nation.

What's "right" is that Khadr answer for his crimes in the jurisdiction where it was committed.


The jurisdiction he was "arrested" in was afghanistan, he is in gitmo........ was fighting an invading aggressor illegal? How about the fact that he was 15 years old, what is considered a child soldier, and the legal requirements for child soldiers is counseling and reintegration into society.
 
CDNBear
#8
[quote=Avro;1224174]
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

At 15 did you know right from wrong?

quote]

At 15 could you be manipulated?

I'll have to admit yes, but if dear old Dad asked me to go to a foreign country and kill infidels, I'd have to say I think not.

Hell Avro, even when I was at my most militant, I never considered killing "white people".

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

The jurisdiction he was "arrested" in was afghanistan, he is in gitmo........ was fighting an invading aggressor illegal? How about the fact that he was 15 years old, what is considered a child soldier, and the legal requirements for child soldiers is counseling and reintegration into society.

Cool, let the Afghans do that then...
 
gerryh
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

At 15 did you know right from wrong?

Yup. and as a Canadian citizen, I would have expected to be charged and tried for my supposed transgressions in a timely manner. Something Khadr has not had happen. There are now questions as to whether or not he actually threw the grenade or was just cowering behind the rubble when the americans stormed the bunker and shot him in the back. The biggest question is...why have the americans taken sooooooooooo long bringing him to trial? Could it be because their case against him has disinigrated and they are just hoping the world forgets about this child?
 
gerryh
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post


Cool, let the Afghans do that then...


No, he's a Canadian citizen.
 
Slim Chance
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

The jurisdiction he was "arrested" in was afghanistan, he is in gitmo.


You can sign me up for a donation for a plane ticket to Afghanistan. I'll wager that you'll collect enough cash to buy the plane.


Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

was fighting an invading aggressor illegal? How about the fact that he was 15 years old, what is considered a child soldier and the legal requirements for child soldiers is counseling and reintegration into society.

Khadr is not an Afghan - that makes him a foreigner, doesn't it? In fact, you might easily make the argument that he isn't a soldier, but a mercenary... I wonder if the same UN rules surrounding "child soldiers" extends to mercenaries?
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#12
Id say he has done his time and let him go. But my question is that can he live with everyone in regular society and not do something crazy? The night they arrested Omar Khadr they hit the coumpound he was in with Apaches and A-10's, and then Delta team gutted them after....... Id be insane after that, and i dont Khadr is mentally fit to live amognst us

in my opinion of course
Last edited by Johnnny; Feb 21st, 2010 at 04:41 PM..
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#13
[quote=CDNBear;1224177]
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

I'll have to admit yes, but if dear old Dad asked me to go to a foreign country and kill infidels, I'd have to say I think not.

Hell Avro, even when I was at my most militant, I never considered killing "white people".

Depends, how long has this kid been manipulated?

Goes onto the Israeli debate, the kids in Gaza are told to hate Jews from from day one.

We have to judge on whether it is the child's fault or those who would teach him.

I suspect it is the latter, call me naive but I have always thought that the case.
 
gerryh
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post



Khadr is not an Afghan - that makes him a foreigner, doesn't it? In fact, you might easily make the argument that he isn't a soldier, but a mercenary... I wonder if the same UN rules surrounding "child soldiers" extends to mercenaries?

yes, they do.
 
CDNBear
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Yup. and as a Canadian citizen, I would have expected to be charged and tried for my supposed transgressions in a timely manner. Something Khadr has not had happen. There are now questions as to whether or not he actually threw the grenade or was just cowering behind the rubble when the americans stormed the bunker and shot him in the back. The biggest question is...why have the americans taken sooooooooooo long bringing him to trial? Could it be because their case against him has disinigrated and they are just hoping the world forgets about this child?

Could it be that there is no legal case history for trying un uniformed foriegn nationals in a war zone?

Because as you know, they were summarily shot in past wars.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

No, he's a Canadian citizen.

Ya so? He gave that up when he left the country to kill by buddies.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

You can sign me up for a donation for a plane ticket to Afghanistan. I'll wager that you'll collect enough cash to buy the plane.

I'm falling in love with you...


Quote:

Khadr is not an Afghan - that makes him a foreigner, doesn't it? In fact, you might easily make the argument that he isn't a soldier, but a mercenary... I wonder if the same UN rules surrounding "child soldiers" extends to mercenaries?

It doesn't. And age on paper means nothing to me. Besides that, I would have put three in his on site.
 
CDNBear
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post


Depends, how long has this kid been manipulated?

Goes onto the Israeli debate, the kids in Gaza are told to hate Jews from from day one.

We have to judge on whether it is the child's fault or those who would teach him.

I suspect it is the latter, call me naive but I have always thought that the case.

I'll agree, but you have to understand, I'm not the kind of guy that believes kids are all that innocent. I may be wrong, but I was raised to accept my own responsibility. And I have a finite set of rules in regards to those that present a danger to my buddies.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#17
[quote=Slim Chance;1224180]You can sign me up for a donation for a plane ticket to Afghanistan. I'll wager that you'll collect enough cash to buy the plane.
quote]


I'll wager you collect enough to pay his leagl fees here as well.

Proves nothing.
 
Slim Chance
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Could it be that there is no legal case history for trying un uniformed foriegn nationals in a war zone?

Because as you know, they were summarily shot in past wars.

Ya so? He gave that up when he left the country to kill by buddies.

I'm falling in love with you...


It doesn't. And age on paper means nothing to me. Besides that, I would have put three in his on site.


Looks like we see eye to eye on this. On the age issue, it is the local culture that should dictate the terms... If boys are considered men at a certain age in Afghanistan (or wherever else), then that should be the standard.

As far as Khadr being manipulated, I understand that he has an older brother in Canada that elected not to follow in dear old dad's terrorist footsteps.... No one can tell me that he was manipulated or had no choice.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

Looks like we see eye to eye on this. On the age issue, it is the local culture that should dictate the terms... If boys are considered men at a certain age in Afghanistan (or wherever else), then that should be the standard.

As far as Khadr being manipulated, I understand that he has an older brother in Canada that elected not to follow in dear old dad's terrorist footsteps.... No one can tell me that he was manipulated or had no choice.


Except many kids vote the same way there parents do.

When they get older that tends to change a bit.

Often, kids are a result on how they are brought up.

Messy....but still a fact.
 
gerryh
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

No one can tell me that he was manipulated or had no choice.


That is no surprise to me at all. People as closed minded as yourself can very seldom be told anything.

I see that you and your fellow blood letter have conveniently ignored the new facts that have been seeping out over the last few years concerning the case the americans have against Khadr. Things like one of their eye witnesses now recanting that he saw Khadr throw the grenade. Now stating that it was thrown by an adult that was killed by the seals. Now stating that Khadr was cowering behind a pile of rubble without a weapon...... but I know..... all this is inconsequential to the "bigger picture" .... right?
 
Slim Chance
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Except many kids vote the same way there parents do.

When they get older that tends to change a bit.

Often, kids are a result on how they are brought up.

Messy....but still a fact.

I can appreciate that most (if not all) kids are highly influenced by their parents and family, that is not the question in my mind.

I see many issues here, some of the more important being the assumption of personal responsibility being one very large component and the second being the psychology of the terrorist absolutely counting on the softness of Western society.


I have yet to hear anyone argue that Khadr did not know or understand what he was doing. As such, the suggestion that his actions be excused is without merit.
 
Slim Chance
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That is no surprise to me at all. People as closed minded as yourself can very seldom be told anything.

I see that you and your fellow blood letter have conveniently ignored the new facts that have been seeping out over the last few years concerning the case the americans have against Khadr.


Why don't we review the most basic facts.

  1. Khadr was a foreigner in Afghanistan.
  2. He was essentially a mercenary.
  3. He voluntarily assumed an aggressive combat role.
  4. He was willing to kill other foreigners.
  5. Khadr knowingly aligned himself with an organization considered terrorists by the Afghan government.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

I can appreciate that most (if not all) kids are highly influenced by their parents and family, that is not the question in my mind.

I see many issues here, some of the more important being the assumption of personal responsibility being one very large component and the second being the psychology of the terrorist absolutely counting on the softness of Western society.


I have yet to hear anyone argue that Khadr did not know or understand what he was doing. As such, the suggestion that his actions be excused is without merit.

He was 15....excuse enough for me.

Plus he hasn't even been convicted of doing anything wrong and given recent illuminations on his case he didn't.
 
Slim Chance
#24
You and I will have to agree to disagree.

As far as not doing anything wrong - his direct and active affiliation with terrorists can certainly be considered one element.
 
gerryh
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

Why don't we review the most basic facts.

  1. Khadr was a foreigner in Afghanistan.

Didn't realize that "being a foreigner" was against anyones laws.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post


He was essentially a mercenary.

was he? this has been proven?

Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

  1. He voluntarily assumed an aggressive combat role.

again, this has been proven?

Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

  1. He was willing to kill other foreigners.

same as above.
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

  1. Khadr knowingly aligned himself with an organization considered terrorists by the Afghan government.

actually, when he "aligned himself" with this organization, they were not considered terrorists by the Afghan government.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by TylerView Post

Can someone provide one legal reason how the Canadian government can refuse to seek Omar Khadr's repatriation?

The Federal Court of Canada and the Court of Appeals had already concluded that the government has the obligation to seek his repatriation. Although the Supreme Court has stopped short from asking that, it agreed that Khadr's rights have been violated.

Us, laymen, can argue about what rights he waived, and how guilty he is, etc... etc... but at the end of the day, it's been concluded by the judicial branch that his rights have indeed been denied.

What legal reasoning does our government have to refuse to do what's right? Is the government blatantly violating the Charter just because they can?

Canada Does Not Guarantee Canadian Rights and Freedoms | Blables.com (external - login to view)

The decisions of the lower courts are irrelevnt, because they were overturned by the Supreme Court.......so that is the ONLY decision, as far as the law is concerned.

The Court indeed did conclude his rights had been violated.....but only by the fact Canadians interogated him without giving him full benefit of his legal protections under Canadian law........they did NOT say his rights under the Charter were violated by Canada not seeking his release......correctly deciding that would be delving into foreign affairs, which is simply not their jurisdiction.

Therefore, the gov't is NOT violating the Charter..........simple as that.

That said, I think the gov't should quietly seek his release, then sneak him back into Canada to avoid the inevitable sign-waving morons giving him a hero's welcome at the airport....I have some sympathy with the depiction of him as a child soldier......and the Americans ARE denying him his rights under their Constitution.......
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Slim ChanceView Post

You and I will have to agree to disagree.

As far as not doing anything wrong - his direct and active affiliation with terrorists can certainly be considered one element.

Okay.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#28
This "Khadr" is a Canadian. Bring him back to Canada and have a trial
with the charge of "High Treason." Get it over and done with, sentence
him to Life (& Life doesn't have to mean 25yrs), as is outlined in section
46 of the Criminal Code of Canada. The shoe fits.

"High treason
(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,
(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;
(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

(It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.)
 
gerryh
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

This "Khadr" is a Canadian. Bring him back to Canada and have a trial
with the charge of "High Treason." Get it over and done with, sentence
him to Life (& Life doesn't have to mean 25yrs), as is outlined in section
46 of the Criminal Code of Canada. The shoe fits.

"High treason
(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,
(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;
(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

(It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.)


none of the above applies....but nice try. See what I hgilighted in red.... Canada needs to update the law if they want to try anyone under that section.
 
Slim Chance
#30
Gerry,

Will you agree that Khadr is Canadian citizen and not Afghan?
 

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