Bill to Abolish Gun Registry Passes 2nd Reading

[FiveParadox]

Today in the House of Commons, Bill C-391 (which would abolish the long-gun registry) passed its second reading with a vote of 164 to 137. Her Majesty’s Government for Canada passed the motion with the support of eighteen members of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition and the New Democratic Party of Canada. The bill is now referred to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, where committee members will review and suggest amendments to the bill, before reporting its recommendations back to the House.

The Government has made major strides in its agenda to abolish the registry (despite the objections of the Canadian Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association), but nonetheless, the legislation has not yet passed. Once the Standing Committee returns the bill to the House, it needs to be debated and passed at third reading, before being handed up to the Honourable the Senate of Canada for comprehensive scrutiny and review. I’m looking forward to seeing the Senate’s recommendations on the issue of gun control. At any rate, the bill certainly won’t be passed before the holiday recess.

 

[AnnaG]

Unfortunately, the $2.5 billion spent on the white elephant is irretrievable even if the registry is dissolved, but at least the $half million per year can be spent on something else. Maybe healthcare personnel?

 

[Colpy]

Today in the House of Commons, Bill C-391 (which would abolish the long-gun registry) passed its second reading with a vote of 164 to 137. Her Majesty’s Government for Canada passed the motion with the support of eighteen members of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition and the New Democratic Party of Canada. The bill is now referred to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, where committee members will review and suggest amendments to the bill, before reporting its recommendations back to the House.

The Government has made major strides in its agenda to abolish the registry (despite the objections of the Canadian Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association), but nonetheless, the legislation has not yet passed. Once the Standing Committee returns the bill to the House, it needs to be debated and passed at third reading, before being handed up to the Honourable the Senate of Canada for comprehensive scrutiny and review. I’m looking forward to seeing the Senate’s recommendations on the issue of gun control. At any rate, the bill certainly won’t be passed before the holiday recess.

I am not at all interested in what sortof crass, idiotic political games the Liberal-dominated Senate is going to play with this proposition..........the Firearms Act is an expensive failure, and a serious attack on civil liberties. The Bill now under scrutiny does not go far enough to remedy the worst abuses of Canadians under the Act, but it is a start.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Role of the Senate / Costs of the Registry

I am not at all interested in what sortof crass, idiotic political games the Liberal-dominated Senate is going to play with this proposition.

I certainly wouldn’t consider comprehensive study and review (i.e., the constitutional role and obligation of the Canadian Senate) to be ‘idiotic political games’; rather, I would consider it to be acting with responsibility in the legislative process, as Canadians expect. The Senate has a duty to review and study the bill, and to make whatever changes as honourable senators deem necessary to benefit the Canadian public. If the bill that the Senate passes does not exactly resemble the bill that the Commons passed, then that’s an issue that the two Houses can deal with when we get there. It seems like a reasonable time to once again mention that the House of Commons very rarely rejects the wise amendments made to its legislation by the Senate, due to the tremendous value that the Senate adds to the legislative process.

the Firearms Act is an expensive failure, and a serious attack on civil liberties. The Bill now under scrutiny does not go far enough to remedy the worst abuses of Canadians under the Act, but it is a start.

I was under the impression that ending the long-gun registry would only serve to save the Consolidated Revenue Fund about three million dollars per year. In the grand scheme of a budget of over two hundred fifty billion dollars, the savings are hardly relevant. Canadian police find the resources of the registry useful, and that should be enough to convince the Conservative Party of Canada to retain and enhance the program — after all, they supposedly support Canadian police, right? Perhaps public safety is only a priority when it’s politically expedient.

 

[AnnaG]

Unfortunately, the $2.5 billion spent on the white elephant is irretrievable even if the registry is dissolved, but at least the $half million per year can be spent on something else. Maybe healthcare personnel?

Sorry, I erred. That should be a half B illion per year, not half million. (the actual figure is between 4 and 5 hundred million to keep the thing going and I am not sure if that is over and above the monies collected for fees, licenses, etc.)

 

[Colpy]

Sorry, I erred. That should be a half B illion per year, not half million. (the actual figure is between 4 and 5 hundred million to keep the thing going and I am not sure if that is over and above the monies collected for fees, licenses, etc.)

Interesting history from CBC....hardly pro-gun.

CBC News - Canada - Implementing the Firearms Act

 

[AnnaG]

Interesting history from CBC....hardly pro-gun.

CBC News - Canada - Implementing the Firearms Act

Gawd. Yeah, there's definitely no bias there.

 

[Cannuck]

Canadian police find the resources of the registry useful, and that should be enough to convince the Conservative Party of Canada to retain and enhance the program

No they don't. You are confusing Canadian police officers and the CCP and the CPA. The latter iare nothing more than special interest lobby groups. The average cop would find more officers and better pay to be more "useful" than idiotic do-nothing legislation.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association

No they don't. You are confusing Canadian police officers and the CCP and the CPA. The latter iare nothing more than special interest lobby groups. The average cop would find more officers and better pay to be more "useful" than idiotic do-nothing legislation.

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is representative of the national policing community, with its board of directors consisting of chiefs, commissioners and directors of police services. The Chiefs of Police represent more than 90% of Canada’s police — it’s sad that the Government would so quickly dismiss the concerns of Canadian police in favour of the political soundbite of the day. The Canadian Police Association is another association that represents the voices of Canada’s police, in one hundred seventy police services. Once more, the Government has decided that the concerns of Canadian police do not align with the concerns of the Conservative Party.

The Firearms Act is a comprehensive and effective piece of legislation that assists in the assurance that firearms are not sold to persons who would pose a risk to public safety. The Act also ensures that the interests of hunters are protected, by ensuring that they have seasonable access to firearms licenses, particularly when hunting is required to sustain themselves. Obviously there are challenges when it comes to the regulation of inappropriately imported handguns and the activities of organised crime, but that’s to be expected; it’s no reason to repeal the Act and end gun control. Rather, it’s an opportunity for Liberals and Conservatives to work together and make recommendations to enhance the Act to address these shortcomings.

A savings of three million dollars per year (as projected by Ms. Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General of Canada) does nothing to assist Canadian police forces. Now, the sixty million dollars that the Government spent inappropriately on political advertising for the Economic Action Plan, on the other hand...

 

[Colpy]

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is representative of the national policing community, with its board of directors consisting of chiefs, commissioners and directors of police services. The Chiefs of Police represent more than 90% of Canada’s police — it’s sad that the Government would so quickly dismiss the concerns of Canadian police in favour of the political soundbite of the day. The Canadian Police Association is another association that represents the voices of Canada’s police, in one hundred seventy police services. Once more, the Government has decided that the concerns of Canadian police do not align with the concerns of the Conservative Party.

The Firearms Act is a comprehensive and effective piece of legislation that assists in the assurance that firearms are not sold to persons who would pose a risk to public safety. The Act also ensures that the interests of hunters are protected, by ensuring that they have seasonable access to firearms licenses, particularly when hunting is required to sustain themselves. Obviously there are challenges when it comes to the regulation of inappropriately imported handguns and the activities of organised crime, but that’s to be expected; it’s no reason to repeal the Act and end gun control. Rather, it’s an opportunity for Liberals and Conservatives to work together and make recommendations to enhance the Act to address these shortcomings.

A savings of three million dollars per year (as projected by Ms. Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General of Canada) does nothing to assist Canadian police forces. Now, the sixty million dollars that the Government spent inappropriately on political advertising for the Economic Action Plan, on the other hand...

Five, some points of disagreement.

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police does not represent 90% of officers.....it represents 90% of Chiefs...........BIG difference. The CACP is a organization that exists on government money, in fact it was used to funnel money from the Liberal government to the Coalition for Gun Control.......a case of the government paying a group to lobby them to pass the legislation they want......:roll:

The Canadian Police Association is much closer to street cops........and it is very divided on this issue......although it has hesitantly declared its support for the registry in the past...

Which leads us to the next point.......a state in which the police dictate policy is called a Police State.....the police have a difficult job, and many things would make it easier that are simply not on in a free society........indeed, many police would dance in the street if you burned the Charter of Rights on Parliament Hill.....think about that.

The Firearms Act has been largely ignored by the shooting public, creating a vast pool of unregistered, underground guns, thus making the acquisition of unregistered long guns EASIER, not more difficult.

 

[Cannuck]

The Chiefs of Police represent more than 90% of Canada’s police

No they don't. They represent Police Chiefs who are little more than political appointees and career bureaucrats (at least the ones on CCP). These groups are nothing more than special interest groups.

The Canadian Police Association is another association that represents the voices of Canada’s police, in one hundred seventy police services.

Nope. Again, they claim to represent Canada's police. NAC claimed to represent women and we all know what a farce they were.

Once more, the Government has decided that the concerns of Canadian police do not align with the concerns of the Conservative Party.

Your Liberal Party sound bites aside, you are falling into the trap of assuming that because special interest groups "claim" to speak for people, they actually speak for those people. That's probably because you haven't spent much time in the real world (which is also why the Liberal Party logo gets you so turned on)

The Firearms Act is a comprehensive and effective piece of legislation that ...blah, blah, blah

Perhaps you should save your political psychobabble bull**** for your trip to the LPC convention. It won't fly here. Nobody but the Liberal party and it's supporters want the gun registry and by all accounts, LPC supporters are getting harder and harder to find.

 

[Cannuck]

The Firearms Act has been largely ignored by the shooting public, creating a vast pool of unregistered, underground guns, thus making the acquisition of unregistered long guns EASIER, not more difficult.

There are far more unregistered guns than registered in the area that I live in.

 

[JLM]

Today in the House of Commons, Bill C-391 (which would abolish the long-gun registry) passed its second reading with a vote of 164 to 137. Her Majesty’s Government for Canada passed the motion with the support of eighteen members of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition and the New Democratic Party of Canada. The bill is now referred to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, where committee members will review and suggest amendments to the bill, before reporting its recommendations back to the House.

The Government has made major strides in its agenda to abolish the registry (despite the objections of the Canadian Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association), but nonetheless, the legislation has not yet passed. Once the Standing Committee returns the bill to the House, it needs to be debated and passed at third reading, before being handed up to the Honourable the Senate of Canada for comprehensive scrutiny and review. I’m looking forward to seeing the Senate’s recommendations on the issue of gun control. At any rate, the bill certainly won’t be passed before the holiday recess.

There was certainly a big enough outcry from the getgo, me included- but would any of our learned elected officials listen. Thugs and murderers don't use registered guns and very seldom rifles and shotguns. It just doesn't speak well for the number of lunatics in the Liberal party and do none of them have a mind of their own. OUTLAW CRIMINALS NOT GUNS.

 

[Walter]

Don Martin: Vote seals fate of gun registry
November 04, 2009

It's as good as dead. Unless the Senate hums and haws to such excess that a writ drop kills the bill, the federal gun registry is on its way to extinction with all gunowner records destroyed.

Backed by 21 MPs from the three opposition parties and a solid block of support from the Conservatives, the House of Commons voted 164 to 137 to endorse a bill abolishing the gun registry for final consideration at committee and ultimately the Senate.

It was a stronger endorsement of the MP Candace Hoeppner's private member bill, much more than even she had expected. What was supposed to be a squeaker became an all-party pile-on against a misguided, albeit well-meaning, mess that has cost taxpayers more than a billion dollars during its 11-year run.

Even the Senate would find itself tilting hard against the expressed intention of the House of Commons should it needlessly delay, modify or reject the bill.

Besides, the Red Chamber is getting close to a tie between Conservative and Liberal senators, so any delay could tip the balance of power toward the Conservatives and end any suspense about the result.

About effing time. Good on you, CPC and others who voted for this.

 

[pegger]

It was a second reading - which means it still needs to go to committee and to the 3rd reading. Then to the Senate for review before it can pass. Probably 6 to 8 months before it finally passes. If there is no election called, or prorogation of parliament between now and then then you can celebrate. I'm sure that Harper will do one or the other before then.

 

[Niflmir]

There was certainly a big enough outcry from the getgo, me included- but would any of our learned elected officials listen. Thugs and murderers don't use registered guns and very seldom rifles and shotguns. It just doesn't speak well for the number of lunatics in the Liberal party and do none of them have a mind of their own. OUTLAW CRIMINALS NOT GUNS.

All illegal guns begin as legal guns. In fact 1/3 of all firearms used in crimes are rifles and shotguns. Which is hardly "seldom" and therefore requires at least half as much attention as combatting handgun and machine gun smuggling.

The idea behind gun control is to make it illegal to possess a gun without registration, since then the prima facie reason for not registering would be a criminal reason. Therefore, the idea of gun control is to make it so that the people are in fact criminals before they commit the crime. So by your last statement, you should be supportive, since gun control is exactly outlawing criminals, redundancy notwithstanding.

 

[Cannuck]

Learn to debate others instead of insulting them, then, Cannuck; I imagine you’re better than that.

You first. I know you probably don't see it but posting Liberal Party propaganda disguised as your opinions insults everyone here because it suggests the rest of us are not sharp enough to know you are a Liberal Party advertisement.

News Flash!! - Posting Liberal party propaganda in rainbow colors is not debating.

 

[Colpy]

All illegal guns begin as legal guns. In fact 1/3 of all firearms used in crimes are rifles and shotguns. Which is hardly "seldom" and therefore requires at least half as much attention as combatting handgun and machine gun smuggling.

The idea behind gun control is to make it illegal to possess a gun without registration, since then the prima facie reason for not registering would be a criminal reason. Therefore, the idea of gun control is to make it so that the people are in fact criminals before they commit the crime. So by your last statement, you should be supportive, since gun control is exactly outlawing criminals, redundancy notwithstanding.

Yes, but like all law, the effectiveness of gun control depends completely on the willingness of those involved to comply. Gun owners in Canada have NOT complied. That has created a vast pool of underground firearms, and a large segment of society in serious violation of the law........but only in violation of regulatory law.......outside of their refusal to be effectively de-fanged by the gov't, they are law-abiding.

Which really leaves two choices:

1> Dump the registration of long guns.

2> Build a lot of prisons for guys that engage in civil disobedience.

Take your pick.

 

[JLM]

All illegal guns begin as legal guns. In fact 1/3 of all firearms used in crimes are rifles and shotguns. Which is hardly "seldom" and therefore requires at least half as much attention as combatting handgun and machine gun smuggling.

The idea behind gun control is to make it illegal to possess a gun without registration, since then the prima facie reason for not registering would be a criminal reason. Therefore, the idea of gun control is to make it so that the people are in fact criminals before they commit the crime. So by your last statement, you should be supportive, since gun control is exactly outlawing criminals, redundancy notwithstanding.

Philisophically what you say makes sense, in reality it doesn't. For example, it's impractical to label a person a criminal for failing to register a piece of red tape.

 

[Risus]

Five, some points of disagreement.


The Firearms Act has been largely ignored by the shooting public, creating a vast pool of unregistered, underground guns, thus making the acquisition of unregistered long guns EASIER, not more difficult.

So you are admitting the most hunters/target shooters are criminals?