wind turbines - the answer to our energy problems?

strange

strange

Electoral Member
Jul 16, 2009
116
2
18
Toronto
So the Ontario government says it will invest heavily in wind turbines in the new Green Energy Act (GEA). So what does this mean?
It means a lot more natural gas plants to base-load these turbines.
It means higher taxes to produce energy in Ontario.
It means health problems for people living in clse proximity to these turbines.
So what do you think, can Ontario be off our coal diet by 2014 if we base all our future projections on the viability of wind power?
 
Ron in Regina

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,205
8,048
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Ay -30c (or -40c) in the Winter, in the night, with no wind...I'd like to
know that the Base Load wasn't relying on a wind turbine. No power
means no thermostat means no heat.

A wind turbine to supplement things though is a different story...
 
gerryh

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Ron in Regina said:
Ay -30c (or -40c) in the Winter, in the night, with no wind...I'd like to
know that the Base Load wasn't relying on a wind turbine. No power
means no thermostat means no heat.

A wind turbine to supplement things though is a different story...
Click to expand...


pussy
 
gerryh

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Ron in Regina said:
On a Three Dog Night, I'd be fine, and my pipes would freeze & burst
long before I noticed the lack of a furnace. :lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...


Ya know..... if we just ran "Canadian" through the pipes, we wouldn't have ta worry about them freezing and bursting.,...eh......
 
strange

strange

Electoral Member
Jul 16, 2009
116
2
18
Toronto
Hahaha Ron its alright. At least you live in a province with a little bit of sense when it comes to energy policy.
 
D

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
strange said:
So the Ontario government says it will invest heavily in wind turbines in the new Green Energy Act (GEA). So what does this mean?
It means a lot more natural gas plants to base-load these turbines.
It means higher taxes to produce energy in Ontario.
It means health problems for people living in clse proximity to these turbines.
So what do you think, can Ontario be off our coal diet by 2014 if we base all our future projections on the viability of wind power?
Click to expand...

High altitude wind power could solve many of the health issues that noisy ground based rotors produce. It's a bit passive, and not aggressive enough for some weeny engineers, but it has promise.

Directory:High Altitude Wind Power

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Magenn Air Rotor System (MARS) is one of the leading high-altitude designs.


Airborne Wind Solutions

The energy in winds miles above us is sufficient to provide all the world's energy needs.
Sky WindPower Corporation asserts that, after full development of the technology, this energy can be captured with Flying Electric Generators at two cents per kilowatt hour or less. This is less than the cost of producing electricity using fossil fuels or nuclear fission, if all costs are taken into account. FEGs are tethered rotorcraft.
The Laddermill is another method of capturing high altitude wind energy consisting of ascending and descending kites. This method is being considered at Delft University in the Netherlands.
The most common other approach suggested is to use blimps to support or house wind turbines.
Contents

[hide]

Overviews



  • Results from High-Altitude Wind Study Promising - In the future, will wind power tapped by high-flying kites light up New York? A new study by scientists at the Carnegie Institution and California State University identifies New York as a prime location for exploiting high-altitude winds, which globally contain enough energy to meet world demand 100 times over. (Wired;
June 15, 2009)



  • Harnessing High Winds With Giant Kites - On overview of various companies and groups seeking to develop viable, reliable methods of harnessing energy from high altitude winds, which carry hundreds of times more energy and are more constant than those near the ground. A look at Delft University of Technology's Laddermill; Google-supported Makani; University of Sussex; and Kitegen of Italy. (Alternative Energy News; May 20, 2009)


  • Scientists look high in the sky for power - By lofting generators into the upper atmosphere, scientists theorize they could capture the power of the jet stream and transmit the electricity along cables back to Earth. Dozens of researchers around the world believe huge kite-like wind-power generators could be the solution, potentially meeting the world's entire electrical needs. (San Fransico Chronicle; May 7, 2007)

  • Harvesting Energy in the Sky - Article addresses airborne -- up to 10km in the sky -- wind farms intended to harvest the immense supply of energy in the jet stream. San Diego-based Sky WindPower believes they can not only make this work, but do so profitably. Several other ideas discussed for high-flying wind farming including a Dutch proposal to use pairs of kites to drive a generator. (The Economist; Apr. 3, 2007) (See Slashdot discussion)

Companies



  • Makani Aims to Harvest High Altitude Wind - "Makani Power is seeking to harness high-altitude wind energy to produce energy at an unsubsidized real cost significantly below that of the least expensive coal-fired power plants, the current benchmark of the lowest cost source of power." Google has invested $10 million in Makani. (PESWiki; Jan. 29, 2008)


  • Ladder Mill consists of a series of wings or kites all connected to a cable that forms a huge loop. Like the wings of an aeroplane will the wind cause an upward lift force to the wings. Prototype successfully tested Aug. 2007.


  • Magenn index page - Inflatable, rotating balloon, wind turbine design had expected to be read for market readiness in 2006 (haven't made it yet); at a price close to grid power.


  • Briza Technologies - The Hovering Wind Turbine can be placed to capture the high velocity high altitude winds. It eliminates the need of expensive towers, to produce energy that is cheaper than fossil fuels, non-polluting, renewable, and without global warming.


  • Sky WindPower Flying Electric Generator(FEG) should be able to produce electricity at a life cycle cost of less than two cents per kilowatt hour using tether materials now available. Long range this will be the world's cheapest energy source other than the limited hydro sources.


  • Sequoia Automation - The Kite Wind Generator, or KiteGen, consists of several kites tethered to a central rotor that is turned as the kites are dragged along by the wind. A radar-guided system of winches controls the direction and angle of the kites, the same as the ones used by kitesurfers, at altitudes up to 1,000 meters. Estimated cost is 1.5 euros per MegaWatt Hour ($0.002 US per kWh).


  • KiteShip - Very Large Free Flying Sails (VLFFS) for boats and ships provide up to 10,000 horsepower of controlled, inexpensive power from wind energy, to reduce ship owners' fuel costs by up to 25 percent, and vastly reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and pollutants.
Sky Sail



  • Football Field-Sized Kite Powers Latest Freighter - A new freighter set to launch in December will be receiving a hefty dose of power from a kite the size of a football field. The 460-foot ship, owned by the Beluga shipping company, hopes to see as much as a 50% drop in fuel consumption during optimal conditions. (Network World; Nov. 25) (See Slashdot discussion)


  • SkySails - Wind propulsion system based on large towing kites reduces a ship‘s fuel costs by 10 - 35%. Now in final development testing, in 2007 pilot systems will propel large cargo ships for the first system purchaser from Germany, and series production will begin in 2008.

  • Renewables Cheaper than Coal - Google announced a new initiative, known as RE<C, to develop electricity from renewable energy sources that will be cheaper than electricity produced from coal. To start with, a wind and a solar firm have been identified as Google's early bets: eSolar (solar thermal power) and Makani Power (high-altitude wind). (EcoGeek; Nov. 27, 2007)
In the News



Research and Development


Wind > High Altitude Wind Power >
Twind High-Altitude Wind Technology - TWIND technology intends to propose an innovative method in order to exploit the Eolic energy with low costs, higher continuity and a minor environmental impact. (Comment: Their site talks about the power:windspeed ratio as a squared function. It is actually a cubed function.)

Directory:High Altitude Wind Power - PESWiki
 
Liberalman

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Burn the feces in the sewer plant to turn the turbines to produce electricity and whetevers left after the burn can be used as fertilizer.

Windmills is old technology and should be scrapped
 
P

Polygong

Electoral Member
May 18, 2009
185
3
18
Between Ireland and Russia
Wind will not be able to supply base load for a very long time, if ever. One key element to the success of wind power will be the ability to store energy produced by wind turbines to store excess energy during peak winds and supply the difference in low winds.

Nuclear will supply Ontario's base energy needs for the forseeable future.

Nonetheless, wind power should continue to be pursued and grown to become an important part of Ontario's overall energy mix.
 
D

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Polygong said:
Wind will not be able to supply base load for a very long time, if ever. One key element to the success of wind power will be the ability to store energy produced by wind turbines to store excess energy during peak winds and supply the difference in low winds.

Nuclear will supply Ontario's base energy needs for the forseeable future.

Nonetheless, wind power should continue to be pursued and grown to become an important part of Ontario's overall energy mix.
Click to expand...

What's a very long time? It will get even longer if the govt doesn't get things going on this file. It's always about storing wind energy. With high winds thousands of feet up, it is ALWAYS windy. The jetstream has constant winds at speeds from 100k to 400k an hour. There, the base load issue is solved.

No more wasteful nuke plants. No more coal burning plants. The future is here.

Airborne wind turbine

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Airborne wind generator


Sustainable development portal
Energy portal
An airborne wind turbine is a design concept for a wind turbine that is supported in the air without a tower.[1] When the generator is on the ground,[[2]] then the tethered aircraft need not carry the generator mass or have a conductive tether. When the generator is aloft, then a conductive tether would be used to transmit energy to the ground. Airborne systems would have the advantage of tapping an almost constant wind, without requirements for slip rings or yaw mechanism, and without the expense of tower construction. Kites and 'helicopters' come down when there is insufficient wind; kytoons and blimps resolve the matter. Also, bad weather such as lightning or thunderstorms, could temporarily suspend use of the machines, probably requiring them to be brought back down to the ground and covered. Some schemes require a long power cable and, if the turbine is high enough, an aircraft exclusion zone. When the generator is ground-based, the tether need not be conductive. As of 2008, no commercial airborne wind turbines are in regular operation. [3]

 
strange

strange

Electoral Member
Jul 16, 2009
116
2
18
Toronto
I don't see any of these airborne wind turbines in the proposed wind projections for the Green Energy Act. Its great technology but will it receive the required investment to make it competitive.
 
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