Illegal drugs Canada's Growing International Market


Liberalman
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#1
Illegal drugs: Canada's growing international market

As in the CBC report above Canada has become a haven for drug dealers and organized crime.

According to the United Nations Canada is becoming a major exporter of illegal drugs

The drug dealers import the supplies then make it here then export them to other countries.

The drugs are made in the major cities like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

In Toronto last year there have been a lot of grow-ops and ecstasy lab busts

Government has to spend more money on drug enforcement officers and get rid of this problem because this is the core problem of the guns and gangs.

If you get rid of the core problem the gangs will go away.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
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#2
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

Illegal drugs: Canada's growing international market

As in the CBC report above Canada has become a haven for drug dealers and organized crime.

According to the United Nations Canada is becoming a major exporter of illegal drugs

The drug dealers import the supplies then make it here then export them to other countries.

The drugs are made in the major cities like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

In Toronto last year there have been a lot of grow-ops and ecstasy lab busts

Government has to spend more money on drug enforcement officers and get rid of this problem because this is the core problem of the guns and gangs.

If you get rid of the core problem the gangs will go away.

The gangs won't go away unless we legalize all drugs. Why spend more money when you can make it. That was just a silly statement.
 
Liberalman
#3
Quote:

legalize all drugs

thats more of a silly statement
legalizing some of them would make more sense
 
CDNBear
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#4
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

Illegal drugs: Canada's growing international market

As in the CBC report above Canada has become a haven for drug dealers and organized crime.

According to the United Nations Canada is becoming a major exporter of illegal drugs

The drug dealers import the supplies then make it here then export them to other countries.

The drugs are made in the major cities like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

In Toronto last year there have been a lot of grow-ops and ecstasy lab busts

Government has to spend more money on drug enforcement officers and get rid of this problem because this is the core problem of the guns and gangs.

If you get rid of the core problem the gangs will go away.

Well then, you may want to withdraw your support of the oft soft on crime Liberal party then liberalman.

The Cons have long been seen as hard on crime and more willing to increase funding to Law Enforcement. While the Liberals and NDP have stood stead fast against this ideal, and sought to fund 'rehabilitative' projects instead.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
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#5
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

thats more of a silly statement
legalizing some of them would make more sense

De-criminalize and control. Risk is profit and it's the easy money aspect that draws organized crime into it. Actual street price would be a fraction of what it is when pusher premium is gone and you wouldn't have all the foreign substance rubbed in for extra mileage and bigger profit.

If it's regulated, quality will always be the almost the same.

If the thrill of getting away with something is gone, a big part of the market will be gone.

If the artificially high price is gone, users won't be stealing to feed the need.

If programs are put in place, addicts can be treated instead of incarcerated.

If cops aren't occupied with tracking down drugs, they can be out on the street catching impaired drivers and child molestors.
 
Liberalman
Avatar
#6
CDNBear

If the Conservatives put all Canadians first instead of white Canadians then I might consider it.

Example Canadian citizen Abousfian Abdelrazik not charged with anything took years to come home under the protest of the Conservative government and a white convicted Canadian woman (forgot her name) was flown home to Canada within record time
 
Liberalman
Avatar
#7
lone wolf

Like the cigarettes when they get artificially high the competition steps in fill the market's demands like the Aboriginals

Someone will always be there with a cheaper product.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
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#8
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

lone wolf

Like the cigarettes when they get artificially high the competition steps in fill the market's demands like the Aboriginals

Someone will always be there with a cheaper product.

Yeah ... a retail outlet like the provincial liquor control boards selling regulated and taxed product. If someone wants to undercut, there is no profit and too much risk. Do you see any big-market bootleggers out there?
 
CDNBear
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

CDNBear

If the Conservatives put all Canadians first instead of white Canadians then I might consider it.

Example Canadian citizen Abousfian Abdelrazik not charged with anything took years to come home under the protest of the Conservative government and a white convicted Canadian woman (forgot her name) was flown home to Canada within record time

No shyte eh, I wasn't pleased about that either.
 
Unforgiven
#10
Invest in illegal drugs. It's a growth market, little risk to investors as it's always the small time dealers who get busted and rarely the large operators, even less so those who simple sink money into it.

The market is awesome with people having less time to actually enjoy themselves. So taking a little boost to enhance the good time is a popular thing to do. Hard drugs that are addictive make it's own market.

Lastly, let's no kid ourselves. Organized crime provides the nasty people who do the dirty deeds we need them to do once in a while like kill some person who stands in the way of some other person making a lot of money. A problematic wife or husband and of course the biggest use of all is that it's keeps the regular folk scared, at home spending money making it a nice place since they have to spend so much time there.

Everyone knows what a keystone is or a lynch pin, yes?
That is what Pot is. It's the one drug that supports all the other drugs. Take the money out of that one drug and the rest comes tumbling down. There will always be heroin, cocaine and other drugs but without pot bringing in the main bulk of the money and establishing the network to deal the harder stuff, there will be no problem.

But hey, if you want to invest billions a year into stopping something that you can't stop, go for it.
 
pegger
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#11
Actually - take time and learn about the history of drug crime in Canada. It's quite interesting, and after learning about the real reasons these laws were frist created (back in th 1800's), you will see why the current laws are unjust.

The current "war on drugs" is a complete failure. Legalize it, control it and tax it - while all the problems won't disappear - it will be much better than what we have now.
 
Liberalman
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#12
marijuana and hash should be sold at the beer store and the rest at the drug store
Last edited by Liberalman; Jun 28th, 2009 at 10:09 AM..Reason: ....
 
taxslave
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#13
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

marijuana and hash should be sold at the beer store and the rest at the drug store

I agree.
The only reason the drug trade is doing so well in Canada is that it is not covered by NAFTA
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
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#14
Quote: Originally Posted by peggerView Post

Actually - take time and learn about the history of drug crime in Canada. It's quite interesting, and after learning about the real reasons these laws were frist created (back in th 1800's), you will see why the current laws are unjust.

The current "war on drugs" is a complete failure. Legalize it, control it and tax it - while all the problems won't disappear - it will be much better than what we have now.

Wasn't it the early 20th century? At least marijuana was criminalised in the 1920s.

Anyways, I posted a while back a link to a large study on Cocaine that showed, amongst other things, that even cocaine causes about as much harm to society as alcohol. So yes, legalize all drugs.
 
ironsides
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#15
Canada border is drug war's second front.

PLATTSBURGH, N.Y. | The world's longest undefended border: It's a catchy yet increasingly imprecise term for the U.S.-Canada frontier, as authorities on both sides ratchet up efforts to curb bustling traffic in illegal drugs and guns.

"Canada supplies large quantities of marijuana to American users, including hundreds of thousands of pounds a year of lucrative, high-potency "B.C. Bud" from British Columbia. Canada also has developed rapidly into a leading supplier of ecstasy - often laced with highly addictive methamphetamine - both for U.S. and overseas markets, as crime gangs operate factory-style superlabs"

--
 
Unforgiven
#16
Maybe we have just too many wars on our hands. Who is the victim when someone grows their own pot in their back yard and smokes it on their own deck after work?

While some are working hard to get you to think that all drugs are as widely used as Pot, it's not true. Pot is every where. You might as well try to ban rain for the amount of good it will do you. All those resources tied up in the war on drugs comes from somewhere. In this case, it's comes from the money that would be spent on stopping car thieves from ripping off your car and shipping it out to another country.

We should be spending money where we get the biggest bang for the buck. Trying to punish people for something that is prevalent as Pot is in all of North America is a waste of money that could be better spent on crimes that result in a victim.
Like car theft. We all pay more for insurance because of it. It affects everyone.

The government doesn't have to get into the business of selling Pot, it just has to get out of the business of trying to punish those who use it. Once that happens, organized crime will lose a major funding element thus reducing all other aspects of organized crime.

Then maybe we can afford to pay to battle the real criminals who are stealing cars and hurting people.

Brett Popplewell
Staff Reporter

Conservative and Liberal leaders expect new laws will be in place this fall that should stop countless vehicles stolen in the GTA from being shipped abroad.
"The laws (that deal with auto theft in Canada) are out of date," said federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson. "The Star identified that quite clearly, and that's certainly the feedback that we have received.
Nicholson's comments follow a Star investigation that found more stolen vehicles in the GTA are being shipped abroad than ever before.
Two factors have exacerbated the problem: Canadian border officials don't routinely check shipping containers to see if the cars inside are stolen, and police auto theft squads have been emaciated.
The Star found many instances of stolen cars being shipped overseas in cargo containers by companies using falsified documents.
Parliamentarians on both ends of the political spectrum say they are frustrated by lax laws that allow auto theft rings to ship stolen vehicles abroad with relative impunity.
Both sides say they hope the recent media spotlight on the issue will lead the Senate to pass Bill C-26, which would amend how the Criminal Code looks at auto theft.
If passed, Bill C-26 will add a new offence to the Criminal Code: theft of a motor vehicle. A third conviction would get a mandatory prison sentence, while those convicted of trafficking stolen cars could get five years in jail. Altering a vehicle identification number would also become a crime.
The bill would also allow the Canada Border Services Agency to prevent cross-border movement of property obtained through crime.
While Bill C-26 (awaiting approval by the Senate, which is in recess until September) will make border agents responsible for stopping stolen vehicles from leaving the country, critics worry it will do nothing to stop the bleeding of police resources away from auto theft.
"If we're scaling back our capacity to deal with these crimes, then it is going to become an incentive for criminals to ramp up their activity," said MP Mark Holland, the Liberal party's public safety critic.
On Saturday, the Star reported local police feel increasingly powerless to stop the estimated 2,100 people involved in the organized theft and smuggling of vehicles from the GTA.
Nicholson hopes the new legislation will address that: "There is discouragement within law enforcement agencies (over auto theft) because of the gaps in the law."
But that discouragement is more severe than previously thought.
The Star has learned that the Provincial Auto Theft Team – a joint task force involving the OPP, the Insurance Bureau of Canada and local police forces – is going through a restructuring that will see a further decrease in the number of officers investigating auto theft in the GTA.
PATT, which has already seen the officers attached to it drop from 48 to 15 in recent years, is eliminating three full-time OPP officers assigned to auto theft in the GTA.
"(PATT) is certainly not being dismantled," said OPP Insp. Stuart McDonald, project manager for the auto theft team. "We're just restructuring our investigative areas and deploying them where we think they would be more effective across the province."
That means of the five OPP officers assigned to auto theft in the GTA, only two will remain stationed here. One will be transferred to Eastern Ontario, another to Western Ontario. One will be dropped from the unit entirely.
Criminal Intelligence Service Canada believes auto theft gangs work mainly here and in Montreal.
Asked how reassigning resources will affect the team's ability to fight the theft gangs in Toronto, McDonald indicated not everyone in policing sees auto theft as a priority.
"Auto theft being a $1 billion a year industry, of course I'm concerned. But there are also a number of other criminal happenings going on that I'm concerned about as well. So we have to put our resources where we think they are best," he said.
That, to Holland, is cause for concern. "Government has to assure that police forces have the appropriate resources to combat this type of crime," the Liberal MP said.
"You can't tell police how to do their job, but you can tell police we need to see a clear plan to deal with auto theft, and there is concern that the programs don't seem to be getting the support they need."
Auto theft in Canada totals $1.2 billion a year. More than 20,000 stolen vehicles are shipped abroad every year.
Auto theft rings in Toronto routinely steal cars, transport them by rail to Montreal and then ship them abroad.
Some even wind up in the hands of Al Qaeda and other terror groups, which use North American cars as bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
pegger
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#17
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Wasn't it the early 20th century? At least marijuana was criminalised in the 1920s.

Anyways, I posted a while back a link to a large study on Cocaine that showed, amongst other things, that even cocaine causes about as much harm to society as alcohol. So yes, legalize all drugs.

I believe the first drug to be outlawed was opium - in the late 1800's (shortly after the Railway was built).
 
AnnaG
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#18
Legalise it all, tax it all, regulate it all. It would sure cut down on the black market, the problems with impurities and contaminents, law enforcement, health issues due to contaminents, etc.
 
DurkaDurka
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#19
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaGView Post

Legalise it all, tax it all, regulate it all. It would sure cut down on the black market, the problems with impurities and contaminents, law enforcement, health issues due to contaminents, etc.

That's assuming that people would buy drugs from the government.

Would the government supply drugs at the current street price? Doubt it.

How do you regulate something like crystal meth or crack? Drugs like this are full of nasty chemicals which you cannot remove else the it wouldn't be crack or crystal meth.

I can support decriminalization of drugs but having the government regulate and sell drugs? No thanks.
 
AnnaG
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#20
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

That's assuming that people would buy drugs from the government.

Would the government supply drugs at the current street price? Doubt it.

How do you regulate something like crystal meth or crack? Drugs like this are full of nasty chemicals which you cannot remove else the it wouldn't be crack or crystal meth.

I can support decriminalization of drugs but having the government regulate and sell drugs? No thanks.

The gov't doesn't need to own the industry. Just regulate it and tax it like food, or alcohol, or other goods.
 
DurkaDurka
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#21
How does the government regulate a dangerous drug like crack cocaine or crystal meth? By doing so, they would be complicit in overdoses and would open them selves up to all sorts of liability lawsuits. Pot is one thing but when people talk about regulating other drugs they really haven't thought the whole situation out.

In order for the product to be taxed one would have to buy it from a "government approved" dealer, which again is unlikely.
 
AnnaG
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#22
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

How does the government regulate a dangerous drug like crack cocaine or crystal meth? By doing so, they would be complicit in overdoses and would open them selves up to all sorts of liability lawsuits. Pot is one thing but when people talk about regulating other drugs they really haven't thought the whole situation out.

In order for the product to be taxed one would have to buy it from a "government approved" dealer, which again is unlikely.

The gov't regulates the pharmacies, doesn't it? Or are they exempt from gov't interference?
Besides, people overdose on food constantly. Gov't regulates that stuff. I think pharmacies should be the only ones to be able to dispense tobacco products, too, for that matter.
 
DurkaDurka
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#23
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaGView Post

The gov't regulates the pharmacies, doesn't it? Or are they exempt from gov't interference?
Besides, people overdose on food constantly. Gov't regulates that stuff. I think pharmacies should be the only ones to be able to dispense tobacco products, too, for that matter.

Comparing pharmaceutical regulation to regulating street drugs trade is non-nonsensical. The various chemicals that go into drugs like Meth, Crack, Ectasy etc would never be approved in the first place.

Your whole food analogy is really lacking. Chances are I could eat 4 quarter pounders right now and just have a case of mud butt, whereas if I consumed 4 grams of heroin or crack I would be heading to the emergency pretty damn quick. The principles applied to food, alcohol & pharmaceutical regulations don't necessarily work with street drugs.
 
Unforgiven
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

That's assuming that people would buy drugs from the government.

Would the government supply drugs at the current street price? Doubt it.

How do you regulate something like crystal meth or crack? Drugs like this are full of nasty chemicals which you cannot remove else the it wouldn't be crack or crystal meth.

I can support decriminalization of drugs but having the government regulate and sell drugs? No thanks.

Those who understand the issue seem to think decrim of Pot is the way to go. One thing though, Canada and the US have to be on the same page. Otherwise Canada becomes a warehouse for the US market.

The goal is to take away a major funding tool of organized crime. Since that is where the violence comes from, removing the major money source also removes the funding and support for buying guns, funding labs that make dangerous drugs. Fighting over turf when it comes to who supplies the drugs and controls the area.

Decrim 10 plants per house hold. Possession of under a kilo and sale of under a pound. Legalize seed sales. Should anyone get stupid with it they can spend the night in the drunk tank and what they have with them is confiscated. No prison, no criminal record.

Doing so would take in my estimation, round 15 billion dollars out of the hands of organized crime. In the first year. Take that kind of money out of any industry and see what it does.

No one would spend $200 and more for a ounce of Pot when you can grow your own for a year on that amount of money.
 
DurkaDurka
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#25
I agree with most of what you said there unf, and it makes sense for the most part.

Decriminalizing marijuana should have happened years ago but you know how politics go....
 
Unforgiven
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I agree with most of what you said there unf, and it makes sense for the most part.

Decriminalizing marijuana should have happened years ago but you know how politics go....

If shooting babies got politicians elected it would be the national sport. But I don't understand the people of either country supporting politicians that support the war on drugs. All the information is there that would lead a reasonable person to agree that that war is a failure and only takes money away from areas of enforcement that could be making a difference in all our lives. Like the article about stolen cars in Canada. We don't even have the money to pay people to search containers leaving this country. I mean it's against the law not to declare the ten grand you want to take out of the country but who is going to stop you loading a few hundred grand and a couple of cars in a container and shipping it over seas? Not the government or the police in this country that's for sure.

Pass a joint to someone at a protest or sell seeds over the internet to someone in the US and the G is all over you. At least they can be if you get a little too noticable when talking about the mess they have made with this drug war.

That is perfectly acceptable by the public of both countries.
 
AnnaG
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#27
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Comparing pharmaceutical regulation to regulating street drugs trade is non-nonsensical. The various chemicals that go into drugs like Meth, Crack, Ectasy etc would never be approved in the first place.

Like what? Arsenic? That's used in drugs to treat cancer. How about botulinum toxin (the most toxic protein we know of? It's extremely lethal. It is used for treatment of muscle spasms and is a treatment for cervical dystonia. How about the crap that tobacco companies put in what people smoke? And this is just the ones starting with the letter "a":
  • --
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  • Amyl Formate
  • Amyl Octanoate
  • alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
  • Amyris Oil
  • trans-Anethole
  • Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
  • Anise
  • Anise Star, Extract and Oils
  • Anisyl Acetate
  • Anisyl Alcohol
  • Anisyl Formate
  • Anisyl Phenylacetate
  • Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
  • Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
  • 1-Arginine
  • Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
  • Ascorbic Acid
Ammonium Hydroxide? Ammonium Sulfide? Yeah, that stuff's really good for people and it's allowed to be sold to people in any quantity they choose. Perhaps you could use a refresher class or two in chemistry.




Quote:

Your whole food analogy is really lacking. Chances are I could eat 4 quarter pounders right now and just have a case of mud butt, whereas if I consumed 4 grams of heroin or crack I would be heading to the emergency pretty damn quick. The principles applied to food, alcohol & pharmaceutical regulations don't necessarily work with street drugs.

So you die more slowly with the burgers and cheese slices. Big deal. They still shorten your natural lifespan and cost a lot more in the longterm healthcare you would need to treat food abuse. Ever see the movie "Supersize me"? Or "Food Inc."? Ever wonder how much it costs in healthcare just for heart diseases alone (I mean the ones related to food abuse)? You are really funny if you don't think food causes problems beyond a little "mudbutt".
Last edited by AnnaG; Jul 28th, 2009 at 04:00 AM..
 
DurkaDurka
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#28
Anna, explain to me how the government would regulate ingredients such as these, commonly used for making crystal meth:

--

  • Match Heads (Hydriodic Acid)
  • Iodine
  • Drano
  • Brake Fluid
  • Ephedrine (derived from Sudaphed)
  • Butane
  • Hydrochloric acid
  • Sodium hydroxide
  • Ether
  • Anhydrous Ammonia
 
AnnaG
Avatar
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Anna, explain to me how the government would regulate ingredients such as these, commonly used for making crystal meth:

--

  • Match Heads (Hydriodic Acid)
  • Iodine
  • Drano
  • Brake Fluid
  • Ephedrine (derived from Sudaphed)
  • Butane
  • Hydrochloric acid
  • Sodium hydroxide
  • Ether
  • Anhydrous Ammonia

lol Are you trying to tell me that embalming fluid and ammonium hydroxide isn't as dangerous as Drano or sodium hydroxide? That's funny.

The same way the gov't regulates the ingredients in tobacco. IOW, it doesn't give a crap unless enough people squawk.
 
DurkaDurka
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#30
Find me a product that you can by legally ingest which allows for ingredients such as brake fluid, butane and drano?
 

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