Harper’s Privatization Of Canada’s Post Office

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Canada’s finance minister said that he will privatize Canada’s crown corporations like the Nuclear agency and now Canada Post the country’s government mail service.

I was looking at the post office union web site and found this.

Will the price of a stamp be cheaper under a private post office?

Will the mail get delivered any quicker with a private post office?

I guess Canadians will find out.

At least the Conservative party is consistent with their goals to privatize the Canadian government.

I guess Canadians will have to learn to sing a new anthem; Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight”


You have to admire the Americans, they’re country at least they’ll defend their citizens and keep their country together while our Canadian government wants to privatize the government for sale to the highest bidder.

Oh Canada why aren’t you standing on guard for thee.


http://www.cupw.ca/index.cfm?ci_id=11744&la_id=1

Letter to Rob Merrifield, Minister of State of Transport - Re: Response to he report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Revi

May 14, 2009 - 17:00
Strategic Review of Canada Post / Letter
Rob Merrifield
Minister of State of Transport
Place de Ville, Tower C, 29th Floor
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N5
Dear Mr. Merrifield:

Re: Response to the report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Review

I would like to thank you for meeting with representatives of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) on May 7, 2009 and for listening to our views on the report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Review (CPCSR).

As you know, there was not enough time at the meeting to adequately cover a number of recommendations. As such, I thought it would be useful to put our initial response to major report recommendations in writing. As well, the union has a number of questions relating to the report.

From our point of view, the report contains both positive and negative recommendations.

Deregulation: CUPW is very pleased with the recommendation to not deregulate public postal services.


Competitive Services: Likewise, the union is happy to see the recommendation that Canada Post continue to provide competitive services and that it should leverage its networks and develop new revenue streams. This is a far cry from the last review of Canada Post Corporation (CPC), and it is good to know that there is general agreement that our public post office is a viable and important endeavor.


Postage Rate Cap: The union also supports the recommendation to increase the rate cap from 2/3rds of inflation to at least the full rate of inflation. As you know, Canada Post currently has one of the lowest basic postage rates in the industrialized world as a result of the cap. However, the current cap does not reflect real cost inputs and has hindered the corporation from making necessary investments in service and infrastructure. While no one welcomes prices increases, we hope the government will see its way clear to making this important change.


Universal Service Obligation: We do not have a problem with the recommendation to have a service charter defining standards for delivery, retail services and so on, so long as those standards are reasonable and so long as there is adequate public consultation on the standards. Of course, we have some concerns about including the reserved area that is covered by the exclusive privilege in a charter which is up for review every five years.
Would it be possible to obtain the study that was produced for the review, “Universal Service Obligation and Other Public Policy Analysis - Study 1”?


International Mail: The union is not pleased with the recommendation to remove outbound international mail from the exclusive privilege. We find it very odd that there is a recommendation on this issue but no analysis relating to international mail in the report.


Rural Mailboxes: It is also apparent that the CPCSR advisory panel did not spend much time looking at the rural mailbox issue, or they would have realized that their recommendation is likely to create as many safety problems as it solves. This is a hugely important issue for many people and we would like to have the opportunity, at some point, to talk with you or your representatives and make a few suggestions for solving this problem.


Employee Share Ownership Plan: We are adamantly opposed to the recommendation that the government allow Canada Post to introduce an employee share ownership program. The report talks about this recommendation as if it is just another employee engagement program. It is not. It is partial privatization. Shares are shares, no matter who owns them. We are actually very surprised to see that the advisory panel violated its mandate not to consider privatization by making this recommendation.


Third Party Review of Collective Agreements: We are opposed to the recommendation to have an independent third party review existing collective agreements.


Modernization: CUPW understands that Canada Post needs to invest in new facilities and equipment. Given that the advisory panel is recommending that the corporation be permitted to borrow up to $1.7 billion to invest in new technology and infrastructure, it should be noted that Canada Post has paid over $1 billion in taxes and dividends to the federal government in the last 10 years and that this money could have been used to invest in new technology and infrastructure.

CUPW would like to stress that postal workers need to see that they benefit from Canada Post’s investment in a modernization program. Modernization will affect almost every one of our members, sometimes in very negative ways. For example, new letter carrier sequencing machines will likely mean more time on the street for letter carriers and more injuries. Canada Post already has one of the highest injury rates in the federal sector and this rate has actually worsened under CPC President Moya Greene. It is absolutely essential that Canada Post implements modernization in a way that eliminates adverse effects and ensures that employees receive their fair share of the benefits of automation.


Rural Postal Services: We fully support the recommendation to include rural postal service in the USO but we have some very serious concerns about the recommendation to replace the current moratorium with new rules and procedures, such as allowing


Canada Post to replace public post offices with private outlets and establishing a new definition of rural. The moratorium, as we know it, is not designed to simply protect rural service. It is designed to protect public postal service in rural and small one-post-office towns.


Municipalities are passionate about their public post offices. They participated in a rebellion against post office closures and conversions (i.e. from public to private ) in the late 1980s and early 1990s, which resulted in the current moratorium on post office closures in rural and small towns. And they have subsequently done everything in their power to maintain and improve public postal service.


What is the government’s initial response to the service charter proposal, which would allow Canada Post to replace public post offices with private outlets?

What is the government’s initial response to establishing a new definition of rural?


Partnerships: The report recommends that Canada Post partner with other firms and/or competitors. It is not entirely clear what the advisory panel is recommending. Do they mean public-private partnerships or the kind of partnerships that Canada Post currently has?


Governance: We are still assessing the recommendations on governance.
The advisory panel recommends that the Minister responsible for social oversight interact directly with Canada Post on regulatory or social matters, but it is not clear how this Minister or the government would interact with the public and other stakeholders.
Would it be possible to request clarification on this matter?


Strategic Review every Five Years: We have no problem with the recommendation that the government conduct a strategic review of Canada Post every five years so long as the government takes steps to ensure that future reviews are more accountable and more transparent than the 2008 strategic review of Canada Post. As you know, the government refused to hold public hearings in connection with the review. The public – the people who own Canada’s post office –were given a little over four months, which included the summer, to send written submissions to the CPCSR. Many people did not know a review was taking place. It would be fair to say that the vast majority of stakeholders who made submissions heard about the review through communications from the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. In contrast, a similar review in the United States (US) held four public hearings.


I understand the government intends to take time to review the report and engage in consultations before it comments on CPCSR report recommendations.

Would it be possible to get an understanding of who will be consulted, and in particular, whether the government intends to consult with municipalities?

I would like to thank you again for meeting with us. Please feel free to contact us at any time if you have concerns or questions relating to the union, its members and public postal service.

Yours truly,
Denis Lemelin
National President

cc:
National Executive Committee
Regional Executive Committees
National Union Representatives
Regional Union Representatives
Specialists
CUPW locals
David Christopherson, MP
Mario Laframboise, MP
Joseph Volpe, MP
John Baird, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Andre Morency,ADM, Corporate Services Group, Transport Canada
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Liberalman,

Can you remember the last time that Canada Post went on strike?... How about the last time you heard a news item that a letter was delivered years after it was sent?

You do realize that many of the functions related to postal delivery have been outsourced to private companies years ago, right?

For that matter, one has to ask exactly how necessary Canada post is in the face of email and groups like Fedex and Purolator.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,843
92
48
Maybe we'll get Saturday delivery back. We might even get Sunday delivery.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
Who cares if we even have a post office...maybe those that are computer illiterate. The post office is going the way of the hitching post.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Canada’s finance minister said that he will privatize Canada’s crown corporations like the Nuclear agency and now Canada Post the country’s government mail service.

I was looking at the post office union web site and found this.

Will the price of a stamp be cheaper under a private post office?

Will the mail get delivered any quicker with a private post office?

I guess Canadians will find out.

At least the Conservative party is consistent with their goals to privatize the Canadian government.

I guess Canadians will have to learn to sing a new anthem; Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight”


You have to admire the Americans, they’re country at least they’ll defend their citizens and keep their country together while our Canadian government wants to privatize the government for sale to the highest bidder.

Oh Canada why aren’t you standing on guard for thee.


http://www.cupw.ca/index.cfm?ci_id=11744&la_id=1

Letter to Rob Merrifield, Minister of State of Transport - Re: Response to he report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Revi

May 14, 2009 - 17:00
Strategic Review of Canada Post / Letter
Rob Merrifield
Minister of State of Transport
Place de Ville, Tower C, 29th Floor
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N5
Dear Mr. Merrifield:

Re: Response to the report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Review

I would like to thank you for meeting with representatives of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) on May 7, 2009 and for listening to our views on the report of the Canada Post Corporation Strategic Review (CPCSR).

As you know, there was not enough time at the meeting to adequately cover a number of recommendations. As such, I thought it would be useful to put our initial response to major report recommendations in writing. As well, the union has a number of questions relating to the report.

From our point of view, the report contains both positive and negative recommendations.

Deregulation: CUPW is very pleased with the recommendation to not deregulate public postal services.


Competitive Services: Likewise, the union is happy to see the recommendation that Canada Post continue to provide competitive services and that it should leverage its networks and develop new revenue streams. This is a far cry from the last review of Canada Post Corporation (CPC), and it is good to know that there is general agreement that our public post office is a viable and important endeavor.


Postage Rate Cap: The union also supports the recommendation to increase the rate cap from 2/3rds of inflation to at least the full rate of inflation. As you know, Canada Post currently has one of the lowest basic postage rates in the industrialized world as a result of the cap. However, the current cap does not reflect real cost inputs and has hindered the corporation from making necessary investments in service and infrastructure. While no one welcomes prices increases, we hope the government will see its way clear to making this important change.


Universal Service Obligation: We do not have a problem with the recommendation to have a service charter defining standards for delivery, retail services and so on, so long as those standards are reasonable and so long as there is adequate public consultation on the standards. Of course, we have some concerns about including the reserved area that is covered by the exclusive privilege in a charter which is up for review every five years.
Would it be possible to obtain the study that was produced for the review, “Universal Service Obligation and Other Public Policy Analysis - Study 1”?


International Mail: The union is not pleased with the recommendation to remove outbound international mail from the exclusive privilege. We find it very odd that there is a recommendation on this issue but no analysis relating to international mail in the report.


Rural Mailboxes: It is also apparent that the CPCSR advisory panel did not spend much time looking at the rural mailbox issue, or they would have realized that their recommendation is likely to create as many safety problems as it solves. This is a hugely important issue for many people and we would like to have the opportunity, at some point, to talk with you or your representatives and make a few suggestions for solving this problem.


Employee Share Ownership Plan: We are adamantly opposed to the recommendation that the government allow Canada Post to introduce an employee share ownership program. The report talks about this recommendation as if it is just another employee engagement program. It is not. It is partial privatization. Shares are shares, no matter who owns them. We are actually very surprised to see that the advisory panel violated its mandate not to consider privatization by making this recommendation.


Third Party Review of Collective Agreements: We are opposed to the recommendation to have an independent third party review existing collective agreements.


Modernization: CUPW understands that Canada Post needs to invest in new facilities and equipment. Given that the advisory panel is recommending that the corporation be permitted to borrow up to $1.7 billion to invest in new technology and infrastructure, it should be noted that Canada Post has paid over $1 billion in taxes and dividends to the federal government in the last 10 years and that this money could have been used to invest in new technology and infrastructure.

CUPW would like to stress that postal workers need to see that they benefit from Canada Post’s investment in a modernization program. Modernization will affect almost every one of our members, sometimes in very negative ways. For example, new letter carrier sequencing machines will likely mean more time on the street for letter carriers and more injuries. Canada Post already has one of the highest injury rates in the federal sector and this rate has actually worsened under CPC President Moya Greene. It is absolutely essential that Canada Post implements modernization in a way that eliminates adverse effects and ensures that employees receive their fair share of the benefits of automation.


Rural Postal Services: We fully support the recommendation to include rural postal service in the USO but we have some very serious concerns about the recommendation to replace the current moratorium with new rules and procedures, such as allowing


Canada Post to replace public post offices with private outlets and establishing a new definition of rural. The moratorium, as we know it, is not designed to simply protect rural service. It is designed to protect public postal service in rural and small one-post-office towns.


Municipalities are passionate about their public post offices. They participated in a rebellion against post office closures and conversions (i.e. from public to private ) in the late 1980s and early 1990s, which resulted in the current moratorium on post office closures in rural and small towns. And they have subsequently done everything in their power to maintain and improve public postal service.


What is the government’s initial response to the service charter proposal, which would allow Canada Post to replace public post offices with private outlets?

What is the government’s initial response to establishing a new definition of rural?


Partnerships: The report recommends that Canada Post partner with other firms and/or competitors. It is not entirely clear what the advisory panel is recommending. Do they mean public-private partnerships or the kind of partnerships that Canada Post currently has?


Governance: We are still assessing the recommendations on governance.
The advisory panel recommends that the Minister responsible for social oversight interact directly with Canada Post on regulatory or social matters, but it is not clear how this Minister or the government would interact with the public and other stakeholders.
Would it be possible to request clarification on this matter?


Strategic Review every Five Years: We have no problem with the recommendation that the government conduct a strategic review of Canada Post every five years so long as the government takes steps to ensure that future reviews are more accountable and more transparent than the 2008 strategic review of Canada Post. As you know, the government refused to hold public hearings in connection with the review. The public – the people who own Canada’s post office –were given a little over four months, which included the summer, to send written submissions to the CPCSR. Many people did not know a review was taking place. It would be fair to say that the vast majority of stakeholders who made submissions heard about the review through communications from the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. In contrast, a similar review in the United States (US) held four public hearings.


I understand the government intends to take time to review the report and engage in consultations before it comments on CPCSR report recommendations.

Would it be possible to get an understanding of who will be consulted, and in particular, whether the government intends to consult with municipalities?

I would like to thank you again for meeting with us. Please feel free to contact us at any time if you have concerns or questions relating to the union, its members and public postal service.

Yours truly,
Denis Lemelin
National President

cc:
National Executive Committee
Regional Executive Committees
National Union Representatives
Regional Union Representatives
Specialists
CUPW locals
David Christopherson, MP
Mario Laframboise, MP
Joseph Volpe, MP
John Baird, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Andre Morency,ADM, Corporate Services Group, Transport Canada

It might be better to privatize it- Gov't. should stick to it's original roles, enacting legislation, enforcing and some watchdog activitites, but basically keep their noses out of business.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Security of the mail is of no concern?

Safety to canadians are of no value?

Is that what you are saying?

When a private business takes over a crown corporation the service usually deteriorates and the price usually goes up.

There is no savings to the consumer.

When you look at the Canadian nuclear plants private business will not follow protocol because of their cost cutting measures and lack of concern for the safety of people living near the plants.

With Business it is all about the bottom line and the consumer ends up paying a lot more than what the government charged them through taxes.

The Conservative provincial government in Ontario privatized the electronic toll highway 407 north of Toronto.
The company took over and started to raise the tolls per kilometer dramatically without improving the road and when the newly elected provincial government objected about the high prices the toll company told them to take a flying leap.

In Alberta when the province privatized the liquor and beer stores the prices increased dramatically and the selection of products decreased.

Don’t forget about the deregulation of energy in Ontario where a lot of consumers bought contracts to protect from rising prices for their electricity and with the electricity prices going down these customers are forced to pay the higher prices

This is what privatization does and the consumer always loses.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
I would wonder how Harper feels he has a mandate to privatize the Post Office. Is he trying to spark an election? In light of the recent polls, it's probably not a good idea for Harper.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
First off, the idea that the percentage of property owned by the government is proportional to the nation's unity is ridiculous.

Having said that, I'm not sure about privatizing Canada Post. Privatization would have certain advantages in terms of making it free to integrate more efficiently with foreign postal organizations (after all, it's part of a world-wide network), and freeing the government from potential labour strikes, etc.

However, I wonder if Canada Post is not a natural monoploy, as infrastructural network companies often are. If so, then it operates more efficiently as a monopoly than as a series of competing companies. Telephone companies are natural monopolies too. So if Canada Post is in fact a natural monopoly (which I'd assume it is, since Post Offices around the world must be wiling to recognize its stamps, suggesting that even if competing, they must co-operate), then the question becomes how we should deal with natural monopolies.

If we privatize such a company only to forcefully (since natural monopolies will always gravitate towards monopolization naturally without active governmnet participation in anti-competition laws, etc.) break it down into competing organs as we've done with phone companies, then we're essentially forcing it to become more inefficient. But if we keep it a government entity, then we need to manage it, always with the threat of strikes, etc. Or we could leave it as a private monopoly, which then gives it too much power.

One possible way of benefitting from the efficiency that comes from allowing a natural monopoly to monopolize without risk of excessive power, and not burden the government with its management, is to sell it off as a workers' and consumers' co-op. This way all workers and users of its services get to vote for its board of directors and so keep its power in check while still allowing it to benefit from the efficiencies of natrual monopolization.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Who cares if we even have a post office...maybe those that are computer illiterate. The post office is going the way of the hitching post.



Ohhhh! Maybe there's a good buggy-whip company that we can get the gvt to invest billions into. Afterall, they were necessary way back in the day - who says that we can't legislate their 'need' today?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
As far as I'm concerned, we should not forcefully split natural monopolies as they naturally gravitate towards monoplization for a reason (they function more efficiently that way). Most natural monopolies are such owing to their dependence on a common network, grid system, compatibility (examples, road networks, sewer systems, telephone networks, internet networks, water systems, railway lines, etc.), or lack of a sufficient market to support more than one such company owing to its costs of operation and small population (e.g. a local town newspaper).

If we don't force them to split though, then how do we prevent them from abusing the powers of a monopoly? One solution is nationalization, but then that burdens the government with its maintenance, and also then gives the government too much power.

I think a better solution would be to allow them to exist as private monoplolies, but transform them into workers' and consumers' co-ops. This way, they become more democratic in that all who use their services get ot vote for the voard of directors, something we can't do when it's owned by the government.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
That sure is some bizarre logic liberalman


Security of the mail is of no concern?

There isn't be any opportunity to mail anthrax through email at present.

Safety to canadians are of no value?

... And this general safety of Canadians is related to the postal system in what way exactly?


When a private business takes over a crown corporation the service usually deteriorates and the price usually goes up.

I'll ask a second time. When was the last time that the posties went on strike?

There is no savings to the consumer.


There is a massive savings... To start, people aren't paid $ 30/hr to determine if an envelope has a stamp on it.


When you look at the Canadian nuclear plants private business will not follow protocol because of their cost cutting measures and lack of concern for the safety of people living near the plants.



... You know this because a little yellow bird said this is the case?.. Have you not heard of Chalk River?


With Business it is all about the bottom line and the consumer ends up paying a lot more than what the government charged them through taxes.


With gvt it is never about the bottom line and certainly it is never related to efficiency, effectiveness or the costs... All you get is a low grade product from a low budget service for an enormous cost.


In Alberta when the province privatized the liquor and beer stores the prices increased dramatically and the selection of products decreased.


You have no clue at all... Selection has gone through the roof, costs are cheaper relative to comparing certain items in other provinces (excepting a recent circumstance that involves the prov gvt meddling in the cost of beer).



Don’t forget about the deregulation of energy in Ontario where a lot of consumers bought contracts to protect from rising prices for their electricity and with the electricity prices going down these customers are forced to pay the higher prices


It's called a contract liberalman... I'm curious, had the prices in Ontario risen, would you be demanding that those that signed the contract 'be forced' to pay the higher prices just 'cause you have to despite the contract?... Really man, that is some of the most apologist logic that I have ever come across.
 

jjaycee98

Electoral Member
Jan 27, 2006
421
4
18
British Columbia
Privatization began when I worked at Canada Post in 1986. Shopper's Drug Mart, various Co-Ops, Mom & Pop stores, Northern Stores (old Hudson's bay) all were granted licences to have Postal Outlets & Franchises. Canada Post bought Purolator rather than supporting the In-House delivery systems. It is a depreciating value type of Business, with Top heavy executive Pay and Bonuses. The Union will picket of course but we can not afford them or their boss'.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
With internet, E-mail and online bill-paying the Post Office deserves a well earned death by redundancy.

I have not bought a postage stamp for years. Nor will I ever again.

Why support freeloaders striking every two/four years?

Post Office is like horse and buggy. No conceivable reason for it to exist except for Luddites. And Unionists. Pardon the redundancy.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,847
7,791
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
My Daughter-in-Law is from Utah, and is still shocked by Canadian
prices for many things. For her to ship a birthday gift from Regina to
Salt Lake City....UPS is cheaper (consistently) than either the Postal
Service or the Greyhound Bus System. Much faster too. Go figure.

But without Canada Post, who would bring me several pounds of
fliers every month that I never read and just burn in my Fire Pit???

Kids used to deliver them (and earn 1&1/4 cents per flier) but Canada
Post must have underbid them. That's got to be a huge money maker!!!

I receive about 4 legitimate pieces of mail each month, and mail 4-6
envelopes away each year. Everything else is junk mail and such....

From Colpy's Thread a while back with respect to the pile of postcards
the he'd inherited from the turn of the century (not the last turn, but the one
before that) where one cent stamps on postcards delivered between
1900-1912 or so were delivered in about half the time that it takes in our
current times....shows what the modernization of the postal service has
accomplished.

Canada Post, to become competitive and to pay for further modernization,
has proposed recently to almost double the current postal rates, while
canceling all home delivery (I'm NOT kidding) with just those large
community super-mailbox's....so what will Canada post be doing for us
that a private company couldn't do again?
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
"Ever had anyone e-mail you chocolate chip cookies?"

Not chocalete chip cookies in particular, but I received all sort of things delivered by Purolator Courier, United Parcel Post, Federal Express and such.

None freeloading and abusing taxpayers' money.