Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

Goober

Free Thinker

#1May 21st, 2009

Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

When should a Life Sentence mean a persons full and natural life – they die in jail.
As we now know a child of 8 was lured to her death and the details when they are disclosed in court will cause revulsion.
IMHO persons that commit these crimes should when convicted be sentenced to life with no parole – pardon me – After they die they can apply for parole.

Nuggler

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 21st, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

When should a Life Sentence mean a persons full and natural life – they die in jail.
As we now know a child of 8 was lured to her death and the details when they are disclosed in court will cause revulsion.
IMHO persons that commit these crimes should when convicted be sentenced to life with no parole – pardon me – After they die they can apply for parole.

We're just too soft and cuddly, Goober. This arsehole is going to be glad he's not in Texas. Or China. And, he'll be in "protective" custody.

Gotta give them the "faint hope" clause, and drag the victim's family through the crap every so many years to read victim's statements, etc. Talk about torture.

shadowshiv

Free Thinker

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 21st, 2009

A life sentence should be a true life sentence. Some crimes are not deserving of any leniency/mercy.

VanIsle

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

While I agree that life should mean the rest of one's life - in our country, and in this case - if he is given life and he probably will be, it will be 25 years. As I understand it, he will not be eligible for parole until the 25 yrs. is served.

shadowshiv

Free Thinker

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle

While I agree that life should mean the rest of one's life - in our country, and in this case - if he is given life and he probably will be, it will be 25 years. As I understand it, he will not be eligible for parole until the 25 yrs. is served.

Yeah, but if a person committed the crime when he was 20, he would be eligible(and it is amazing who they find eligible anymore

) for parole when he was 45 years old. Hardly the end of his life by any stretch of the imagination.

And I am pretty sure that I have seen cases where the parole eligibility would come long before 25 years. I am tired of seeing the justice system be geared towards the rights of the criminals rather than that of the victim's/victim's family(families).

Niflmir

Free Thinker

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

I think we should in this spirit rename the Justice System to the Vengeance System.

pegger

No Party Affiliation

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir

I think we should in this spirit rename the Justice System to the Vengeance System.

You nailed it. What's the purpose of jail time? Rehabilitation or punishment (let's be honest - jail as a "preventative" measure does not work - here, where we are "lax" or elsewhere (i.e. Texas - they still have people that commit murder)).

IMHO - in cases like Tori's, it should be punishment. Those two, if found guilty, should rot in jail till the day they die - which no TV, or any other "comforts". Any case where a child is hurt should result in the harshest penalty available.

china

Conservative

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Demand that the death penalty be brought back .

YukonJack

Conservative

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

The maximum sentence for a premeditated murder is life in prison, with no chance for parole for 25 years.

That is a sentence for a minimum 25 years of incarceration.

Along the way, there is a chance for redemption. If you do not believe in redemption, you must be an atheist or a liberal. (Sorry for the redundancy).

Suppose that the offender was a teenager, without a mind of his own, probably doped on drugs? It is easy to condemn, but have you been there? Are you the one who is without sin to cast the first stone??

karrie

No Party Affiliation

#10

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

sure, change the system. And watch the real freaks bide their time to commit their crimes so that they're only risking their twilight years in prison.

There's no single right way to do it, imo. An 18 year old sent to prison for upward of 70 years? What does that do to help society, other than give us a false sense of security, and override our notion that the justice system is about rehabilitation?

DurkaDurka

No Party Affiliation

#11

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

There's no single right way to do it, imo. An 18 year old sent to prison for upward of 70 years? What does that do to help society, other than give us a false sense of security, and override our notion that the justice system is about rehabilitation?

Realistically, since when has a life prison term been about rehabilitating the convict?

VanIsle

#12

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshiv

Yeah, but if a person committed the crime when he was 20, he would be eligible(and it is amazing who they find eligible anymore) for parole when he was 45 years old. Hardly the end of his life by any stretch of the imagination.

And I am pretty sure that I have seen cases where the parole eligibility would come long before 25 years. I am tired of seeing the justice system be geared towards the rights of the criminals rather than that of the victim's/victim's family(families).

I think part of the problem Shadow, is that we are all tired of it but not tired enough to demand harsher penalties. I personally know someone who is in a federal pen. with an "indefinite" sentence, classified as a dangerous offender. He has been there for so long I would really have a hard time figuring out the length. Sometime around 1983. He was sentenced, got out, re-offended and the next time was when he was given his indefinite sentence. He was in his 20's when he went in. He is 50 now. I've seen people do far more than he ever thought of doing and be out in 5 years. I agree that he belongs where he is and I wish there were more judges with spine like the one that put him away. He never hurt a child and he never killed anyone. I don't think a person like him would know what to do with life on the outside and if let out, would probably re-offend just to go back where life is comfortable. The man who has killed Tori Stafford will probably re-offend but with a much more serious crime and he will just go back and do time and on the second time around he should be at the part of his life that when he gets out, we can only hope his thirst for crime is quenched.
I don't like the idea of the death penalty and when crimes were violent less often I believe it would not have been a deterrent. In this day and age, I am coming around to the idea that with DNA evidence, it would be a deterrent.

VanIsle

#13

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

sure, change the system. And watch the real freaks bide their time to commit their crimes so that they're only risking their twilight years in prison.

There's no single right way to do it, imo. An 18 year old sent to prison for upward of 70 years? What does that do to help society, other than give us a false sense of security, and override our notion that the justice system is about rehabilitation?

There isn't enough money to incarcerate and to rehabilitate. Inmates do not have to work. Other than a lack of street walking freedom, for many criminals, life at Club Fed isn't such a bad place to be. Women march to "take back the night". Who marches to take back safety for everyone and for children to be able to walk to and from school with a degree of safety. Society is afraid to let their children go outside and play. Government wonders why the children are so over-weight!

lone wolf

Free Thinker

#14

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Way back when it was still dramatic, a shoeshine boy named Emanuel Jacques was sodomized and murdered on a Toronto rooftop. His killer was sentenced, by a hamstrung and disgusted judge, to life (25 years) to be served in General Population. He was refused parole in 2002....

Polygong

#15

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler

We're just too soft and cuddly, Goober. This arsehole is going to be glad he's not in Texas. Or China. And, he'll be in "protective" custody.

As a law abiding citizen, I'm glad I don't live in Texas or China either. The former has a crime rate that is through the roof, the second is a totalitarian regime.

coldstream

#16

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Even the 25 years minimum is negotiable in the Canadian justice system. There is the 'Faint Hope' facility where a life sentence can be revisited and reduced to time served after 15 years, by a jury. Time spent in prison before conviction can count as 2 or 3 times that of post conviction time. All sentences, in cases of multiple homicides, are served concurrently.

Early release to half way houses can mean years off a sentence, and still count as prison time. There is usually manadatory release after the minimum sentence served. The onus is on the parole system to prove he is still a threat to society, rather than the convict to prove he is not. A parole board also has the ability to rescind all parole obligations, and in fact, erase the original conviction from the criminal record.

The Canadian sentencing system has lost any sense of integrity and correspondence to the original crime. I'm not in favour of reinstating the Death Penalty, but i would like to see this the reimposition of a hard and commensurate sentence for violent crimes.

Last edited by coldstream; May 22nd, 2009 at 02:09 PM..

Nuggler

#17

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong

As a law abiding citizen, I'm glad I don't live in Texas or China either. The former has a crime rate that is through the roof, the second is a totalitarian regime.

Yepper, I agrees wit ya; just using the lone star and the red star as examples. My point being, if I wuz a murderer, I would not like to take my chances in Texas or China..............Canada....mehhhhhhhh

wulfie68

No Party Affiliation

#18

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 22nd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by pegger

You nailed it. What's the purpose of jail time? Rehabilitation or punishment (let's be honest - jail as a "preventative" measure does not work - here, where we are "lax" or elsewhere (i.e. Texas - they still have people that commit murder)).

You're right, prison as a preventative doesn't work but I think we over emphasize rehabilitation and neglect the aspects of punishment and protection of the society. If someone takes another life, they don't deserve that shot at rehabilitation: they've proven that they are willing to perform the ultimate violation of another's rights. We can quip about it being vengeful and try to spin it as personalized retribution but is it vengeance to ensure that someone who took a life will never be able to repeat that action?

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

#19

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 23rd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong

As a law abiding citizen, I'm glad I don't live in Texas or China either. The former has a crime rate that is through the roof, the second is a totalitarian regime.

And the difference is??????

taxslave

No Party Affiliation

#20

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 23rd, 2009

A friend just took early retirement after 25 years as a jail guard. As he said "the only ones to serve out their full 25 years are the ones who are paid to go there.Every one else get time off for good behavior. Which speaks volumes about the guards."
For some of the inmates that we are forced to supply such nice digs I think we should have had the hanging at noon with a trial to follow. No repeat ofenders.

Kreskin

#21

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 23rd, 2009

In the case of murdering children I would support the death penalty. It might not deter others but it sure deters the ones put to death.

Kreskin

#22

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 23rd, 2009

The justice system is just that: a system. It only has so many resources, and needs to be managed. That includes managing risk because there isn't room for everyone on a permanent basis. A judge is one cog in the wheel who takes into consideration many things, including retribution and rehabilitation. But he/she must also understand the implications of their decisions on the rest of the system. If all they had to do was dish out justice without giving thought to anything else it would be easy to max every sentence. But that isn't the reality.

shadowshiv

Free Thinker

#23

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 23rd, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka

Realistically, since when has a life prison term been about rehabilitating the convict?

And they almost always come out "harder" than when they went in. They learn new tricks of the trade while incarcerated.

VanIsle

#24

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 24th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

Way back when it was still dramatic, a shoeshine boy named Emanuel Jacques was sodomized and murdered on a Toronto rooftop. His killer was sentenced, by a hamstrung and disgusted judge, to life (25 years) to be served in General Population. He was refused parole in 2002....

As I recall, Jeffery Dahmer was in the general population for a brief period. Very brief.

VanIsle

#25

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 24th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

A friend just took early retirement after 25 years as a jail guard. As he said "the only ones to serve out their full 25 years are the ones who are paid to go there.Every one else get time off for good behavior. Which speaks volumes about the guards."
For some of the inmates that we are forced to supply such nice digs I think we should have had the hanging at noon with a trial to follow. No repeat ofenders.

It took a double reading to realize that you meant that the correctional officers are the only ones to serve out their full 25 years because they are paid to go there is because they only get to leave and stay away if they quit or retire. Employees don't get time off for good behaviour anywhere so I don't know how that speaks volumes other than to say we are lucky that they do stay. You have to remember though that while the inmates stay 24/7/365, the Correctional Officers go home at the end of a shift and they usually get 4 days off for "good behaviour" before their next shift.
For some odd reason some of those inmates get to demand very fancy digs while they are there.

Unforgiven

#26

Re: Life Sentence – Pure BS from Justice in Canada

May 24th, 2009

So I guess when you get your way and someone goes away for life then those who are charged with handling them can just suck it up when they decide to commit "suicide by cop" because there is nothing worth living for?

Life does mean life in Canada. You get to stew for 25 years before you can ask for a review of your case. Not that you get out or anything, someone just reviews things and allows for victims to make a statement as well in regards to your freedom.

People change and while not everyone is going to change, some people do. I have to say that murdering a child is something you don't really get out of your system like Pedophilia or raping vulnerable people, there are still those who commit terrible crime but change who and what they are after spending that much time in the prison system.

So while the outrageous also have the opportunity to apply for a review after so many years, it's for those who can change rather than those who can not.

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