Harper better outside Canada

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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On an earlier post I predicted that Harper would only last between 6 and 18 months before Count Iggy punted him out of office, probably with a Liberal minority.
I also pointed out that Harper was starting to wear a bit thin with Conservative party members mainly because of all the political mistakes he was making.
I still think most of that is true and I think its still very likely that the Cons will be out next election.

However I have to say that Harper is doing better and better internationally.
In my opinion he is doing a bang up job of moving Canada back onto the international stage as a senior player.

The Americans and the Europeans freely recognize Canada as having the best banking system in the world. Their leaders make time to chat with Harper about fiscal issues these days.

Obama now states that Afghanistan can only be resolved by following the ideas set forth by Canada which include providing aid, assistance,financing and security as well as trying to defeat the enemy. Canada stated that position sometime ago and now Obama and the Americans are parroting it.

At the summit of the Americas in South America Obama stated to the press that he gets advice from the Canadian Government "all the time".

At the summit of the Americas Harper was treated quite well by the far left socalist leaders and pretty much accepted as a senior and reliable leader in spite of Harpers conservative views. In short Harper is coming across even to the foreign socalist leaders as an honest,knowledgeable and reasonable guy.

The Canadian Government banned that racist twit Galloway from Canada and set the precident for dealing with terrorist fundraisers. Now of course all of Galloways funds and assets have been frozen and an investigation launched in Europe. That was well after Canada set the tone for dealing with people like Georgeous George.

Canada announced that it would be boycotting the farsical UN convention on racism and stated that the reasons were that it would be hijacked by Muslim extremists and anti-Jewish racists.
Sure enough on the first day of the session the Iranians were ranting on about wiping out the Jews.
Canada has now been joined by the US of A, Isreal and eight of the Western European nations in boycotting the conference. More nations are expected to follow and the conference is basically expected to publicly implode through non support. Nice job for Canada to lead the way on that one.

Canada has been critized by several foreign countries as being far to slow and cumbersome in prosecuting or extraditing alleged foreign criminals sheltering in Canada.
There is no question that those critisisms are valid.
However there is ample evidence that Harper even in a minority government situation will try and improve and streamline the Canadian Judicial system.
The Harper government is also working on the immigration file to try and eliminate criminals and terrorists from finding a haven in Canada. Canada can be known internationally as a "good guy" country but it doesnt need the reputation of being a sucker or easy to fool.

Frankly I think Harper is doing a far better job outside Canada than within.
Canada is moving back into its rightful spot as a trusted senior player on the international scene.
The Chretien years were a disaster internationally and Canada was seen as a bit of a joke.
Martin probably would have done fairly well internationally but Liberal party infighting and dissention made it very difficult and then the scandels took him out.

However now things are changing for the better.
Perhaps we should just cancel Harpers passport and trap him outside the country.
Seems to me he does his best work when he is gone.

Trex
 
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pegger

Electoral Member
Dec 4, 2008
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I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but I haven't seen it.

I travel extensively for work - and not just to Europe, but to South and South East, Asia, and Africa. Canada hardly ever appears in the news. The only story I read about Canada or our PM overseas was when he missed the photo shoot in England to go to the bathroom. Seriously.

As Canadians, we really need to come to grips with the fact that we are not a World Power, and likely never will be. The major powers are the US, England, France, China and Russia. Germany, Japan and India also rank up there in terms of influence. Canada, not so much. And that is not a bad thing. We can do a lot of good by being good global citizens, and being an example in how we operate at home. We don't need to be on the World stage telling others what to do.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Though I will admit his presence on the international stage impresses me. My opinion of him is less then stellar. His domestic policies certainly aren't what we expected.

I'm still waiting to see him make Gov't more efficient, transparent and accountable.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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lol I have yet to see ANY PM do their job to the best of their ability and for the good of Canadians.
Don't go holding your breath on that thought changing any time soon either.

It seems the priority of any PM since, well since I can remember, is to get re-elected.

Hell, at least Trudeau had an ideology he clung to. Oh Gawd, I got a shiver down my spine as I complimented Trudeau...8O
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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That's why I voted for him.

I want lean, transparent and accountable Gov't.

What we got was the same old same old...:-| Pandering to the Quebecois, scandals, closed mouths and waste.

Yeah, more of the same... I wouldn't expect anything less that though.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but I haven't seen it.

I travel extensively for work - and not just to Europe, but to South and South East, Asia, and Africa. Canada hardly ever appears in the news. The only story I read about Canada or our PM overseas was when he missed the photo shoot in England to go to the bathroom. Seriously.

As Canadians, we really need to come to grips with the fact that we are not a World Power, and likely never will be. The major powers are the US, England, France, China and Russia. Germany, Japan and India also rank up there in terms of influence. Canada, not so much. And that is not a bad thing. We can do a lot of good by being good global citizens, and being an example in how we operate at home. We don't need to be on the World stage telling others what to do.

Pretty right pegger, Canada has a low profile internationally. Other countries are passing us in influence and we can't do much about it as their economies grow. But it is odd that Canadians think we have more influence than we actually do. Those high UN rankings just confirm what everyone already knows about the country. Life is good for us, but when Canadian politicians speak, not too many people outside the country are listening.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
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Harper has hired 2 American Lobbyists to promote Canada to Americans - The recent changes to Canadian citizenship means that an estimated 240,000 Americans born between 1947 and 1969 and their children (I Think) can claim Canadian citizenship. I guess it is on Youtube Harper's cabinet ministers have been flying to major cities speaking before business audiences about how our banks are doing so great and yet we still see US based head office decisions nuking more Canadian branch plants.
Then there are the trade deals with countries that either have low wage and suspect laws or no money to buy anything.

Harper should stay home until he gets Canada working again.
 

L Gilbert

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Nov 30, 2006
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Pretty right pegger, Canada has a low profile internationally. Other countries are passing us in influence and we can't do much about it as their economies grow. But it is odd that Canadians think we have more influence than we actually do. Those high UN rankings just confirm what everyone already knows about the country. Life is good for us, but when Canadian politicians speak, not too many people outside the country are listening.
lol I bet when Canadian politicians speak, they think more Canadians are listening than really are.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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Harper has hired 2 American Lobbyists to promote Canada to Americans - The recent changes to Canadian citizenship means that an estimated 240,000 Americans born between 1947 and 1969 and their children (I Think) can claim Canadian citizenship. I guess it is on Youtube Harper's cabinet ministers have been flying to major cities speaking before business audiences about how our banks are doing so great and yet we still see US based head office decisions nuking more Canadian branch plants.
Then there are the trade deals with countries that either have low wage and suspect laws or no money to buy anything.

Harper should stay home until he gets Canada working again.

Sums it up pretty well in High Tech as well.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but I haven't seen it.

I travel extensively for work - and not just to Europe, but to South and South East, Asia, and Africa. Canada hardly ever appears in the news. The only story I read about Canada or our PM overseas was when he missed the photo shoot in England to go to the bathroom. Seriously.

As Canadians, we really need to come to grips with the fact that we are not a World Power, and likely never will be. The major powers are the US, England, France, China and Russia. Germany, Japan and India also rank up there in terms of influence. Canada, not so much. And that is not a bad thing. We can do a lot of good by being good global citizens, and being an example in how we operate at home. We don't need to be on the World stage telling others what to do.

Well excuse me for my rampant Canadian boosterism.

You are correct in that we are now considered somwhat of a minor player on the world stage.
However at one point in history (1940's,1950's,1960's and half way through the 70's )Canada was considered a major player. At the end of world war two Canada had the third largest naval force in the world.
In the 1960's the G6 was expanded to the G7 to include Canada as Canada was considered a major league nation internationally.
And then along came Pierre Eliot Trudeau.
And it all changed for Canada.
If only the Soviet Union, Nicaragua,Cuba and North Korea had won the day Canada would have been in like Flynn. But they didnt. Gutting our military completely finished us off on the international world stage.
Chritien was hopeless internationally. Clark was ignored. Mulroney sucked up to Reagan and was disliked by other nations and Mr.Dithers really never had a chance.
So its nice to see Canada work to regain her international standing.
Perhaps others enjoy seeing Canada punch far under her weight class internationally.
I dont.
I am well aware that India, China and Brasil are the new contenders to be; however it does not mean that Canada cannot take pride in being known as friendly and honest nation that can be counted on for help and wise advice when required.

And pegger its great you travel so extensively.
Me too.
I have run my little one man consulting business outside of Canada for the last 14 or so years.
I have pretty much lived on and off in Asia and South Asia for 7 years then I spent 4 years in South and Central America plus the Carribbean followed up by my last 3 years back and forth to Europe with the odd shot over to Russia.
In fact I am in Europe now posting from the UK.
Humberside to be exact.
While you are correct in that Canadian news does not exactly dominate the news services outside of Canada I have no trouble seeing the odd mention of Canada here and there.
I find the Europeans actually have a better handle on news and events in Canada and the US then we Canadians do of Europe.
And I find Canada moderately well covered. Even hockey.
So here are a few of those non existent news stories for you.

BBC mentioning Canada's lead on walking out of the UN conference:
http://search.bbc.co.uk/click/p/2/ds/main/t/News%2520%252d%2520Americas%2520%252d%2520US%2520boycotts%2520UN%2520racism%2520conference/id/17231391419798124031811871381000000/sp/5c5a46970f72ec1dde9a346dd63cdf8c/-/http%253a%252f%252fnews%252ebbc%252eco%252euk%252f1%252fhi%252fworld%252famericas%252f8006548%252estm

Heres the Guardian on the boycott:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/20/un-race-conference

Heres The Economist on Canada's snailike court system:
http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13415555

Heres a Time/CNN article on Canadas superior banking system:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1855317,00.html

Heres an American business newsletter talking about Harper taking the lead on trade at the Summit of the Americas:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=32486335247518

And as for the story about Canada refusing to allow Galloway it was all over the media. I was here in the UK and it was plastered everywhere.Page 2 above the fold stuff.I fail to see how you missed it.
Heres the good old Sun with the story and if my wife is reading this my eyes never ever wander to page three.
Honest.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2330692.ece

So pegger I dont know what to say.
Travel more or read more I guess.

Cheers,
Trex


http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=32486335247518
 

pegger

Electoral Member
Dec 4, 2008
397
8
18
Cambridge, Ontario
Trex - did I touch a never or something? If I did, I certainly did mean to.

In the areas I go to Canada was known (even until quite recently) as a level-headed, even handed, neutral-ish country, that was respected for it's opinions. Lately, we are seen as USA wanna-be's, no longer neutral and in some cases ignored entirely.

As to the articles you linked - how many "praise" Harper, or our "leadship" in the international arena? The BBC one is rich - did you read the Headline - US boycotts UN - lot's a praise for Canada there - until you read into the small print - half way down - Canada is mentioned. Once. The Galloway artice - no mention of Harper, the banking system praises Mulroney (decisions in the late '80s?), but no mention of Harper - and they spelt Flaherty's name wrong. The Legal system article? No mention of Harper - except that the legal system is so slow the opposition can't get any dirt on him. The Gardian one on the boycott - Canada "joined" the boycott (certainly not "lead" the boycott - the US did that. (IBD is a dead link)

Also, I didn't mean throw my travelling in your face (it seems you took it that way) - I'm just pointing out that I don't see the glowing rave reviews about our PM when I travel overseas.

Quite frankly, I wonder if this is the new Conservative talking points - I've noticed as of late a lot of postings (on Globe and Mail, National Post, etc...) raving about Harper's "fanastic" job in the international arena, and how well he is representing Canada - and all I am saying is, I don't see it.

I don't agree with your assessment. No need to get all per-snickety about it.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
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Hither and yon
Quote.Trex - did I touch a never or something? If I did, I certainly did mean to.Unquote

Well if you ment too, why question my response.
Or perhaps that was a typo.

Look you took issue with my statement not vice versa.
So I defended myself.

Perhaps we completely misunderstand each others position.
It appears to me that you think Canada is virtually never mentioned or discussed in foreign lands.
I disagree.
I find Canada well understood and I am oftem amazed at the understanding of Canada that exists in remote and rural villages in South Asia and the like.
I used to be able to read the hockey scores in a Dehli newspaper on occasion.

I also do not think it is a good thing to be considerred an ineffectual lightweight on the world stage.
Perhaps you do, to each his own.

And of course you are correct that Canada was seen from time to time as the USA's poodle.
That mainly was due to Mulroney.
And thats why we need leaders that make their own way on the world stage.
And its also why its a good thing when Obama gets quoted as asking for Canadian advice.

As you have pointed out Harper is not mentioned in the foreign press stories.
Except in one place I never said the press mentioned Harper.
I simply said Canada was in the world press.
And I realize that in the stories they were not headlined or primarily about Canada.
Its the foreign press and obviously they talk more about themselves.
However my point was simply that I beleive that Canada is mentioned from time to time overseas.
And obviously I am correct.

It was me that said Harper was doing a good job internationally.
Again, not the foreign press, however when the foreign press talks about relationships with Canada or discussions with Canada, or the Canadian Government it doesnt really take much of a stretch to connect that with the Federal Government of the day.
Does it?

You were the one that brought your extensive travel expierences up as a basis of your opinions and so I thought it only fair to respond in kind.

And I repeat myself in that I find Europeans better informed about goings on in Canada and the United States than we are about them.
I would assume they get some of that information from local media.
If you disagree with that fine.

In the end I just want Canada to been seen as able to stand on its own an be accepted internationally as an expierenced and trustworthy nation of some merit.
If you believe it serves Canada and Canadians better to be considered to be in the international bush leagues well thats your opinion.

Sorry about the dead link.
Heres the piece.
Quoted from the Americans

Leadership: Amid all the boilerplate about dialogue and partnership at Trinidad's Summit of the Americas, the Obama administration has shown no real leadership on its goals. If they matter, why is it left to Canada to lead?
Read More: Latin America & Caribbean


Thus far, the Obama administration seems more interested in continuing its global apology tour, Latin edition, during this weekend's Fifth Summit of the Americas than he is in leading. His accusations against America are stronger than his promotion of the institutions and treaties that bring authentic democracy and prosperity to our hemisphere.
"Too often, the United States has not pursued and sustained engagement with our neighbors," he said. "We have been too easily distracted by other priorities and failed to see that our own progress is tied directly to progress through the Americas."
Having never set foot south of our border nor paid much attention to the region until this week, he should speak for himself.
A critical goal of the Summit of the Americas when it was founded in 1994 by President Clinton and other democratic leaders was a great free trade zone of the Americas, enabling America and its neighbors to move from Barrow, Alaska, all the way to Tierra del Fuego, Chile, in a great free exchange of people, trade and ideas.
Today, Obama is paying only lip service to that trade goal while two finished free-trade treaties with friendly American allies Panama and Colombia sit in his desk drawer, unvoted-on in Congress.
He speaks of the U.S. being "distracted by other priorities" but in reality he's only "distracted" by listening to Big Labor, which has tried to shut Colombia and Panama out of free trade.
In the same way, he's distracted by the Farm Lobby's campaign cash and won't think of ending the senseless tariffs on Brazil's ethanol — another major free-trade, and energy policy, issue.
He has yet to expend political capital to muscle Congress to put those tariffs and treaties to a vote. If he did, he would show leadership. It's not going unnoticed by democratic leaders of our hemisphere, who, from Brazil to Chile to Mexico to Peru, are urging him to take action. This is the one issue he should be showing strong leadership on. But he isn't.
Canada, by contrast, is taking the lead. Prime Minister Stephen Harper said his top priority at the Summit is to champion free trade, in line with the will of the region's real democracies.
"Our focus for the Summit of the Americas will be about free trade and avoiding other countries moving back to protectionist measures," Harper's spokesman said. "Canada's position is that we must not allow the impact of the (financial) crisis to reverse our hard-fought progress towards freer trade and investment."
The region's protectionists can be counted on one hand, and they just happen to be the same countries trying to ruin their own democracies — among them Venezuela, whose de facto dictator, Hugo Chavez, declared at the last summit in 2005 he would "bury" free trade of the Americas. With Obama failing to lead, he's effectively handing Chavez the leadership, as well as a victory.
He's also giving Cuba a victory, unilaterally loosening rules for remittances to the island, providing the bankrupt Castro dictatorship with an economic lifeline as well as a fresh pool of visitors to spy on, blackmail and potentially recruit.
Instead of taking a principled stance, Obama seems to be following the example of other countries in the region. The problem is that in letting the summit focus on his unrequited overture to Cuba, a non-democracy that isn't even allowed to take part, he dumbs down the standards of democracy. That's not leading.
Perhaps this lack of leadership is based on ignorance of history. Obama told CNN En Espanol: "There has always been a tradition of concern that the United States has been heavy-handed when it comes to foreign policy in Latin America. And that's not something that just arose during the Bush administration. That's something that dates back to the Monroe Doctrine and a long history of U.S. involvement in Latin America."
Some history: President Bush was the first U.S. leader in decades to launch no military action on a Latin country. Not very "heavy handed." In fact, his immigration plan showed he was a softie.
Meanwhile, the Monroe Doctrine was declared by President Monroe to protect Latin America's infant democracies from European takeover, a real prospect in 1823. Obama's double apology for that as Iran and Russia erect bases in the region is a bad signal to the region's real democracies — and comfort for our foes.
Right now, the hemisphere's definition of democracy is growing hazier as protectionism rises. The U.S. could lead the region on a better course, but Obama seems more interested in adulation.
What a shame that it's now left to Canada to do the heavy lifting on the actions that will genuinely advance peace and prosperity in our global neighborhood.

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unquote.

Cheers,
Trex