Mr. Abdelrazik abandoned by Harper Government


petros
#31
are you a Conservative type?
 
CDNBear
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

are you a Conservative type?

Nope...

I don't care if Bob and Doug wanna get married and adopt Timmy.

I don't care if Christianity ever gets back into the School system.

I don't believe that Creationism is a valid 'science'.

I don't support the Conservative Gov't lockstep.

I do not support Harper's handcuffing and gagging of his caucus.

I do not like Liberal and NDP spending habits.

I do not agree with giving away the farm to anyone, including my own Native community.

I believe fully in free speech, not just for one side of the ideological equation.

And so on...

No, I'm not a Conservative type, I'm not a Liberal type...I'm just a Canadian trying to survive in a word where hard work, perseverance, responsibility and accountability have gone the way of the Dodo.

I do hate hacks, that live by one ideological stance and all others are moot, null, void or otherwise easily dismissed. Solely on the grounds of ideological foundation.

BS, pure and simple.
 
Nuggler
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Nope...

I don't care if Bob and Doug wanna get married and adopt Timmy.

I don't care if Christianity ever gets back into the School system.

I don't believe that Creationism is a valid 'science'.

I don't support the Conservative Gov't lockstep.

I do not support Harper's handcuffing and gagging of his caucus.

I do not like Liberal and NDP spending habits.

I do not agree with giving away the farm to anyone, including my own Native community.

I believe fully in free speech, not just for one side of the ideological equation.

And so on...

No, I'm not a Conservative type, I'm not a Liberal type...I'm just a Canadian trying to survive in a word where hard work, perseverance, responsibility and accountability have gone the way of the Dodo.

I do hate hacks, that live by one ideological stance and all others are moot, null, void or otherwise easily dismissed. Solely on the grounds of ideological foundation.

BS, pure and simple.



Jeez, Bear, an I had you figured for a gentle lefty...........

 
CDNBear
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Jeez, Bear, an I had you figured for a gentle lefty...........

That's "pinko leftard fringe asshat" to you Nugg...
 
elevennevele
#35
I've have not hidden my belief that I don't feel Harper and his government are fit to run this country. However I've done so through providing material by which I base that so people can debate whether or not I'm making a substantive argument, and then challenge me on my statements or whatever material I provide.

I don't require having to belittle someone, or try to invent a persona around the person who debates me. I simply go on my arguments and the material I use to back them up.

I argued against Harper becoming leader initially because of his right-wing speeches that denigrated segments of the Canadian Electorate. I didn't like the right wing direction he gave indication he would move this country toward when he lead the Reform/Alliance Party. Is it any surprise now how he has polarized Canadians against on another? How he has pitted provinces against one another? Then when Harper supported the Iraq War, went on our media blasting us for not involving ourselves, that sealed it for me.

To be consistent I also heavily criticized Ignatieff's bid for Liberal Leadership as well for the reasons that he also supported the Iraq War. The incredible loss of life, injustice, chaos, misery, based on a decision by anyone in leadership is not to be taken lightly. On the march to war there was enough evidence that pointed to an invasion of Iraq not having enough justification. Much of the world was saying no, and Canada said no, and we can see now how thankful we should be for that.

I have yet to throw support Ignatieff's way. I do realize he wrote a lengthy retraction on such a position. Something which Harper hasn't done and come the next election I'll have to weigh everything before I decide where I'll throw my vote.

What I do know however is what I think of Stephen Harper, and I will continue to be very upfront about that and as to why. I've also criticized the other Political Parties wherever warranted.

I even tried to give Stephen Harper credit for defending the Arctic but he totally dropped the ball there too. What a complete dud this guy is.

Sorry but while there was a time when I argued against Stephen Harper because of what I thought he would do to this country once he got into power, I now find myself sadly arguing against what he has already done. This example with how he treats a Canadian Citizen just another on a long list that keeps growing.

Go ahead and try to make a valid point against my arguments. Resorting to character assassination is simply a waste of everyone's time and only degenerates the debate and the person making them.
 
elevennevele
#36
Says our laws, CDNBear. What you do with your citizenship and how you wish to personally view your approach to your citizenship says nothing of someone else. Neither does it make you more Canadian. Your welcome to have that opinion however.
 
mabudon
#37
Yeah, this situation is pretty disgraceful.

As to the argument that it's only one man- what happens when it's YOU??

That is why it is not in any way a minor issue. If "citizenship" can be devalued to this level then what is it we're paying for, what IS citizenship if it's applied unevenly based on seemingly arbitrary factors??
 
CDNBear
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

I've have not hidden my belief that I don't feel Harper and his government are fit to run this country. However I've done so through providing material by which I base that so people can debate whether or not I'm making a substantive argument, and then challenge me on my statements or whatever material I provide.
I don't require having to belittle someone, or try to invent a persona around the person who debates me. I simply go on my arguments and the material I use to back them up.
I argued against Harper becoming leader initially because of his right-wing speeches that denigrated segments of the Canadian Electorate. I didn't like the right wing direction he gave indication he would move this country toward when he lead the Reform/Alliance Party. Is it any surprise now how he has polarized Canadians against on another? How he has pitted provinces against one another? Then when Harper supported the Iraq War, went on our media blasting us for not involving ourselves, that sealed it for me.
To be consistent I also heavily criticized Ignatieff's bid for Liberal Leadership as well for the reasons that he also supported the Iraq War. The incredible loss of life, injustice, chaos, misery, based on a decision by anyone in leadership is not to be taken lightly. On the march to war there was enough evidence that pointed to an invasion of Iraq not having enough justification. Much of the world was saying no, and Canada said no, and we can...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
From where I sit and from what I've read from you...that entire post is a load of crap.

Your ideology is what drives your opinion of Harper and not one thing could do, that would change your opinion of him, period.

From your own posts, you would exhaust the entire Canadian system, to save but one man that hasn't the respect or care to give himself solely to the Nation, of which he now demands support.

He can rot in a rat infested prison cell for all I care. You're free to join him.
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

Says our laws, CDNBear. What you do with your citizenship and how you wish to personally view your approach to your citizenship says nothing of someone else.

Yes it does. It shows how devoted they are in becoming a part of the social fabric, of which they will undoubtedly use to shield themselves.
Quote:

Neither does it make you more Canadian.

Yes it does. I choose to invest myself solely in my Nation. Unlike this jackass.
Quote:

Your welcome to have that opinion however.

I know I am. You're welcome to yours as well. But I suggest you suck it up buttercup. When you lie down with dog's, you're bound to get fleas.
Last edited by CDNBear; Apr 4th, 2009 at 02:24 PM..
 
CDNBear
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by mabudonView Post

Yeah, this situation is pretty disgraceful.

As to the argument that it's only one man- what happens when it's YOU??

Wouldn't, couldn't be me. I can say that safely too.
Quote:

That is why it is not in any way a minor issue. If "citizenship" can be devalued to this level then what is it we're paying for, what IS citizenship if it's applied unevenly based on seemingly arbitrary factors??

Citizenship of 'convenience' is what it is. It sometimes comes back to bite you in the ***.
 
elevennevele
#40
Nuggler, don't figure anything. What's valid is the consistency behind one's statements and actions. Not personal claims. I think there is enough consistency to know who is who on here without needing political identification.

OT. Interestingly enough (re-spending habits), Manitoba with an NDP Premier is the one province to run a surplus with their budget. I'll save discussion on Harper's spending habits on a more appropriate forum. Hint: It doesn't begin with a Liberal surplus and it ends in deficits.
 
CDNBear
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

Nuggler, don't figure anything. What's valid is the consistency behind one's statements and actions. Not personal claims. I think there is enough consistency to know who is who on here without needing political identification.

OT. Interestingly enough (re-spending habits), Manitoba with an NDP Premier is the one province to run a surplus with their budget. I'll save discussion on Harper's spending habits on a more appropriate forum. Hint: It doesn't begin with a Liberal surplus and it ends in deficits.

A monkey could run a surplus in Manitoba at the moment.

Funny you should mention posting in the correct forum...I do remember that other thread E...do you?
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

.........I'm just a Canadian trying to survive in a word where hard work, perseverance, responsibility and accountability have gone the way of the Dodo.

I do hate hacks, that live by one ideological stance and all others are moot, null, void or otherwise easily dismissed. Solely on the grounds of ideological foundation.
......

Awesome.
 
elevennevele
#43
You need to clarify what my ideology is that you are referring to. I don't know what I'm having to explain myself on.

I don't like Harper because he has the name Harper? I don't like Harper because he is a Christian? What ideology that you are faulting me for? You are painting me with a wide brush, but you give no specifics by which I can give an answer to.

When I fault Harper I've given specific reasons for it. What is it you wish to debate (and please post it on the appropriate forum)?
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#44
Whatever. My point is that Canada's handling of its own citizens and foreign sewer slime transcends the which-party-is-better argument. Not one of our last few governments is worth a spoon of gooseshyte concerning this issue.
 
CDNBear
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

You need to clarify what my ideology is that you are referring to. I don't know what I'm having to explain myself on.

I don't like Harper because he has the name Harper? I don't like Harper because he is a Christian? What ideology that you are faulting me for? You are painting me with a wide brush, but you give no specifics by which I can give an answer to.

When I fault Harper I've given specific reasons for it. What is it you wish to debate (and please post it on the appropriate forum)?

This is the appropriate forum...

This whole thread as most of your threads are based solely on political ideology, not that actual facts that you bring forth.

Like so many others, you nit pick and post from a platform, not from the stand point of critical thought. Plain and simple.

Harper could cure cancer tomorrow and you'ld find some other reason to dismiss him.

Personally, I thought he was going to set this country back on the right track. He failed. The Liberals? Hell, like you, they'ld give the store away to anyone willing to be pimped out for their cause. The NDP, what a waste of oxygen. They'ld sell us all out to prop up the union and make us all PC Taliban lovers.

You fall somewhere in the latter two. The 'right' is bad...the left, give it all away. Hold no one accountable...'cept the 'right'...yep, that's you.

Look at the energy you've put into one man. Now, one day, when you find a real topic to champion. One that affects hunderds, thousands, we'll talk about how you've grown.

As for this man and this situation being important to the whole of Canada...BS...

Millions of Canadians fly in and out of Canada yearly, and all but a few seem to make it home safe and sound...funny that.

When the left fringe hyperbole is removed and the light of reality is applied, the perspective seems scewed to say the least.
 
elevennevele
#46
The only thing that you've made clear so far is that you don't feel one innocent man's life is worth fighting for. That you have a problem with me caring about this person's life. That you don't feel that our government denying this person's rights as a Canadian Citizen is a big issue. And that you are passionate about trying to attack me personally.

You don't think this topic is worth the effort yet with all these posts on here you sure seem to be putting in a lot of effort into the forum. You still haven't given any specifics, but are only making platitudes against me.

Do you think that this issue matters if you are a Sudanese Canadian? Do you think that this has any concern for those lawful Canadians who plan to visit relatives in any Middle Eastern country given that our government shows it can bar them from re-entry not based on our law enforcement, or national intelligence, but by a government's political authority without evidence or cause to the exclusion of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Why don't you show yourself to be able to debate this issue without going on a personal tangent against me. Is that so much to ask?
Last edited by elevennevele; Apr 4th, 2009 at 03:01 PM..
 
CDNBear
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

The only thing that you've made clear so far is that you don't feel one innocent man's life is worth fighting for. That you have a problem with me caring about this person's life. That you don't feel that our government denying this person's rights as a Canadian Citizen is a big issue. And that you are passionate about trying to attack me personally.

You, the rest of the left fringe, whatever...

I noticed you didn't deny my assertion...thanx...

Quote:

You don't think this topic is worth the effort yet with all these posts on here you sure seem to be putting in a lot of effort into the forum. You still haven't given any specifics, but are only making platitudes against me.

I get off on fist leftard fringe folk.
Quote:

Do you think that this issue matters if you are a Sudanese Canadian?

Well of course it does. Especially to those that haven't a vested interest in this country.

Quote:

Do you think that this has any concern for those lawful Canadians who plan to visit relatives in any Middle Eastern country given that our government shows it can bar them from re-entry not based on our law enforcement, or national intelligence, but by a government's political authority without evidence or cause to the exclusion of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Hey, he hasn't given up his Sudanese citizenship...why aren't you harping about them helping him?

Oh ya, Harper's Concervatives aren't running the Sudan. Thanx...

Quote:

Why don't you show yourself to be able to debate this issue without going on a personal tangent against me. Is that so much to ask?

Debate what? You aren't here to debate, your efforts in the thread on Galloway are proof enough of that. You're here to harp on about the 'right' and foist your ideologies as if they are somehow altruistic and benevolent. While trying to portray the 'right' as the bad guys.

If you don't like me getting personal, try posting with something other then your emotional left hyperbole. You infect your posts with it. Separating you and the facts is impossible. Especially since the only fact you have is his being denied a Passport. The rest you just make up as you go along.
 
petros
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Nope...

I don't care if Bob and Doug wanna get married and adopt Timmy.

I don't care if Christianity ever gets back into the School system.

I don't believe that Creationism is a valid 'science'.

I don't support the Conservative Gov't lockstep.

I do not support Harper's handcuffing and gagging of his caucus.

I do not like Liberal and NDP spending habits.

I do not agree with giving away the farm to anyone, including my own Native community.

I believe fully in free speech, not just for one side of the ideological equation.

And so on...

No, I'm not a Conservative type, I'm not a Liberal type...I'm just a Canadian trying to survive in a word where hard work, perseverance, responsibility and accountability have gone the way of the Dodo.

I do hate hacks, that live by one ideological stance and all others are moot, null, void or otherwise easily dismissed. Solely on the grounds of ideological foundation.

BS, pure and simple.

Sounds familiar.
 
CDNBear
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Sounds familiar.

Probably does. The only differing factor being...perspective.

Which is why, my best friend is almost the polar opposite of me on so many issues. Except hunting and fishing.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

Nuggler, don't figure anything. What's valid is the consistency behind one's statements and actions. Not personal claims. I think there is enough consistency to know who is who on here without needing political identification.

OT. Interestingly enough (re-spending habits), Manitoba with an NDP Premier is the one province to run a surplus with their budget. I'll save discussion on Harper's spending habits on a more appropriate forum. Hint: It doesn't begin with a Liberal surplus and it ends in deficits.


Ummm.....Saskatchewan? No deficit....leading the nation
in economic growth...though left of Manitoba on a map it
leans of to the Right with the Saskatchewan Party....
 
elevennevele
#51
Quote:

CDNBear (external - login to view): You, the rest of the left fringe, whatever...

I get off on fist leftard fringe folk.

.

What is this stuff? This is like high school talk. What exactly are you regarding as 'left fringe' with regards to my postings? That I'm standing up for this guy's human rights? I thought Conservative values were about standing up for basic rights too. Is that not the case?

.

Quote:

CDNBear (external - login to view): I noticed you didn't deny my assertion...thanx...

.

Deny what? I don't even know what you are going on about now. You are all over the map. Both in your postings, in what you are trying to say, in your emotions. On the Galloway side everyone going against Galloway's visit was defending the legality of the government preventing him entry. I even pointed out that I didn't dispute that though it made our country look stupid.

Now it's more like the other way around. Abdelrazik is within his legal means as a Citizen of Canada. His visit to Sudan was legal, he right to return home is legal under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Our law enforcement agencies have in written statements declared the guy innocent. Why not now defend our laws this time which should guarantee this man's right to return home to Canada to be with his children again if he is a Canadian Citizen innocent of any wrongdoing?

Just to put it out there. I don't have a problem with 'Conservatism'. I think 'Progressive Conservatism' has been hijacked in this country. It is no longer the same party. This is Harper Conservatism and I'm sorry but it's a failure. A total failure for this country.
 
elevennevele
#52
OT. Yeah Saskatchewan is doing alright. They are a resource rich province and have benefited from that. However I read Saskatchewan had felt somewhat short changed in lending their support towards the Federal Conservatives and in the Jan. budget there was the perception of being taken for granted.

Len Taylor ยป Federal budget ignores Saskatchewan priorities (external - login to view)

Again, I don't view Conservatism in Saskatchewan the same as what is going on in either the Federal Government or the Conservatism out of Alberta. Newfoundland considered itself Conservative with Danny Williams being a Conservative. Strange isn't it?

Harper isn't Conservative. Only in name. Nothing more. Hence all the fractures.

I'm happy for Saskatchewan along with Manitoba. I really like the prairie provinces.
 
CDNBear
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by elevenneveleView Post

.

What is this stuff?

It's called English. You really should attempt to learn it.

Quote:

This is like high school talk. What exactly are you regarding as 'left fringe' with regards to my postings?

Your rantings, your continued attacks on the 'right', your nit picking of policy and so on.

Quote:

That I'm standing up for this guy's human rights?

I say you're full of shyte. Just by using your previous posting as a meter. For I have no other way to compile an opinion of you as a poster.

Quote:

I thought Conservative values were about standing up for basic rights too. Is that not the case?

Sure, I guess, I'm not a Conservative though.

Quote:

Deny what? I don't even know what you are going on about now.

Of this, I have no doubt.

Quote:

You are all over the map. Both in your postings, in what you are trying to say, in your emotions.

I've always loved this tactic...'your emotions'. What youare attempting to do here, is apply a reasoning to my actions. Thus assuming it's 'emotion'...lmao! Nice try though. I have none. I'm cold and calculated. Everything I type is typed to elicit a response. Some call it trolling. I call it seperating the wheat from the chaf.

Quote:

On the Galloway side everyone going against Galloway's visit was defending the legality of the government preventing him entry. I even pointed out that I didn't dispute that though it made our country look stupid.

Of course, a Conservative Gov't made a desition using a Liberal Law. I'm guessing you are further left then I originally thought.
Quote:

Now it's more like the other way around. Abdelrazik is within his legal means as a Citizen of Canada. His visit to Sudan was legal, he right to return home is legal under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Then he has the courts to his disposal.

Quote:

Our law enforcement agencies have in written statements declared the guy innocent. Why not now defend our laws this time which should guarantee this man's right to return home to Canada to be with his children again if he is a Canadian Citizen innocent of any wrongdoing?

Which part of "I don't give a rats ***." didn't you grasp?

In my opinion, the man never renounced his foriegn citizenship. He can ask the Sudanese Gov't for help.

Quote:

Just to put it out there. I don't have a problem with 'Conservatism'. I think 'Progressive Conservatism' has been hijacked in this country. It is no longer the same party. This is Harper Conservatism and I'm sorry but it's a failure. A total failure for this country.

And I agree...go figure.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Wouldn't, couldn't be me. I can say that safely too.Citizenship of 'convenience' is what it is. It sometimes comes back to bite you in the ***.

It is supposed that dual Israeli/Canadian citizenship is very convienient.
 
CDNBear
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

It is supposed that dual Israeli/Canadian citizenship is very convienient.

And just as wrong.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

It's called English. You really should attempt to learn it.

Your rantings, your continued attacks on the 'right', your nit picking of policy and so on.

I say you're full of shyte. Just by using your previous posting as a meter. For I have no other way to compile an opinion of you as a poster.

Sure, I guess, I'm not a Conservative though.

Of this, I have no doubt.

I've always loved this tactic...'your emotions'. What youare attempting to do here, is apply a reasoning to my actions. Thus assuming it's 'emotion'...lmao! Nice try though. I have none. I'm cold and calculated. Everything I type is typed to elicit a response. Some call it trolling. I call it seperating the wheat from the chaf.


Of course, a Conservative Gov't made a desition using a Liberal Law. I'm guessing you are further left then I originally thought.
Then he has the courts to his disposal.

Which part of "I don't give a rats ***." didn't you grasp?

In my opinion, the man never renounced his foriegn citizenship. He can ask the Sudanese Gov't for help.

And I agree...go figure.


I'm happy I stopped to visit CCC today that crazy bear got me to laughing so hard my belly hurts now, I needed the cheering up. He's cold and calculating in complete control of his long dead emotions, like some giant industrial combine, chaff hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Last edited by darkbeaver; Apr 5th, 2009 at 08:31 AM..
 
petros
#57
I have nothing against dual citizenship as long as they aren't held by politicians.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

And just as wrong.

And a far bigger problem than whatshisname, the minnow.
 
CDNBear
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

I'm happy I stopped to visit CCC today that crazy bear got me to laughing so hard my belly hurts now, I needed the cheering up. He's cold and calculating in complete control of his long dead emotions, like some giant industrial combine, chaff hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Coming from you, that's a straight up compliment...thanx...
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I have nothing against dual citizenship as long as they aren't held by politicians.

When you come to Canada and wish to stay, as far as I am concerned. You renounce all other nations. Simple as that.
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

And a far bigger problem than whatshisname, the minnow.

If you're talking about buddy in the OP. Then I would have to agree.

Passports of convenience are being abused.

It should be stopped with great prejudice.
 
elevennevele
#60
Quote:

CDNBear (external - login to view): Your rantings, your continued attacks on the 'right', your nit picking of policy and so on.

.

nit picking? You broke up my comments into 10 different sections. Do you even try to remotely set an example of what you attempt to criticize others for? The rant is like trying to read the side of a zebra. A very emotional zebra who seems to have a problem with someone who cares to discuss an innocent's man be given his legal rights as a Canadian Citizen.
Last edited by elevennevele; Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:34 AM..
 

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