'Political suicide' for Liberals who stick with budget: St. John's mayor

[Praxius]

St. John's Mayor Dennis O'Keefe: 'Our MPs, to a person, should vote against this budget. There's no doubt.'

'Political suicide' for Liberals who stick with budget: St. John's mayor

The mayor of St. John's says Liberal MPs who vote on Tuesday in favour of an unchanged federal budget are playing a dangerous game with their own careers.

Two of Newfoundland and Labrador's six Liberal MPs have already vowed to vote against the budget if there are not amendments to deal with measures that would slash about $1.6 billion in anticipated revenues for the province over the next three years.

The other MPs have said they are lobbying for change with Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, who has not said whether he will respond to an appeal from Premier Danny Williams to act on the budget.

St. John's Mayor Dennis O'Keefe told CBC News that much depends on what happens leading up to Tuesday's budget.

"Our MPs, to a person, should vote against this budget. There's no doubt," O'Keefe said.

"I mean this is a serious, serious blow to the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador and for any MP from any party to even think about not voting with the population of Newfoundland and Labrador is just unthinkable — aside from the fact it would be political suicide."

Williams, who has described changes in the budget as punitive, has asked Ignatieff to work on a one-year moratorium on equalization revisions, which have also drawn criticism from Quebec Premier Jean Charest and others.

At issue is a change in the equalization program that Williams says affects the province dramatically, even though Newfoundland and Labrador is off equalization. At issue are offset payments linked to the original 1985 Atlantic Accord, which recognized the province as the primary beneficiary of the then undeveloped offshore oil industry.

The new budget removes the ability of Newfoundland and Labrador to choose whether to sign on to previously announced equalization policies. Williams believes the change is payback for the "Anything but Conservative" campaign he successfully waged in last year's federal election, in which the federal Conservatives were shut out in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Ignatieff, who has indicated general support for the budget, said the federal Liberals are researching the issue, although he has indicated Williams should not expect automatic support.

"I'm not in the business of carrying Premier Williams's water," Ignatieff said in an interview broadcast Saturday on CBC Radio's The House.

"He has to understand that. I have to represent Canadians from coast to coast to coast and from all provinces … but if there's discrimination against and broken faith with Newfoundland, we are going to make our position very clear to the prime minister and in the House."

Last week, Liberal MPs Judy Foote and Scott Andrews said they are prepared to risk party discipline and vote against the budget.

The funny thing is that I don't hear our NS premiere trying to protect Nova Scotia's interests.... perhaps if this budget does pass, then those in NS should follow the footsteps of Newfoundland and not vote Liberal or Conservative.

Which means that leaves the doors wide open for the Greens or NDP. Political Suicide indeed.

People here can mock and make fun of Newfoundland or other maritime provinces trying to fight for all of this and to be angry over this budget..... but the bottom line is that a Deal is a Deal and to go around and pull these type of stunts during these type of economic times simply because the Conservatives didn't get many votes here in the Maritimes, isn't a way to get votes next time around.

And just because Newfoundland shut out the Conservatives and voted Liberal, doesn't mean they won't also shut out the Liberals as well next time around.

Once again, that could possibly open the doors to a slightly different government next time around.

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On a side note, this also seems to be yet another method of Harper trying to divide the country. First it was with him screwing around with the Atlantic Accord, that resulted in them being shutout in Newfoundland and NS being d*cked over by our Conservative Premiere...... Then the Cons get shutout in Newfoundland and the Liberals gaining some in Nova Scotia (if memory serves).... then we're back at it again in the government when Harper screws around some more, the Coalition comes into play as an option...... Harper then starts talking about illegal this and undemocratic that, all the while trying to play the seperatist card and villianizing the East against the rest of Canada...... then he pulls out this budget which once again attacks the East......

..... is he trying to screw everything up, or does he just not know how to do his job properly? He's supposed to be working for the country "Canada" not just the West and Central Canada, minus Quebec and maritimes.

 

[JLM]

St. John's Mayor Dennis O'Keefe: 'Our MPs, to a person, should vote against this budget. There's no doubt.'

'Political suicide' for Liberals who stick with budget: St. John's mayor



The funny thing is that I don't hear our NS premiere trying to protect Nova Scotia's interests.... perhaps if this budget does pass, then those in NS should follow the footsteps of Newfoundland and not vote Liberal or Conservative.

Which means that leaves the doors wide open for the Greens or NDP. Political Suicide indeed.

People here can mock and make fun of Newfoundland or other maritime provinces trying to fight for all of this and to be angry over this budget..... but the bottom line is that a Deal is a Deal and to go around and pull these type of stunts during these type of economic times simply because the Conservatives didn't get many votes here in the Maritimes, isn't a way to get votes next time around.

And just because Newfoundland shut out the Conservatives and voted Liberal, doesn't mean they won't also shut out the Liberals as well next time around.

Once again, that could possibly open the doors to a slightly different government next time around.

-------------------------------------------------

On a side note, this also seems to be yet another method of Harper trying to divide the country. First it was with him screwing around with the Atlantic Accord, that resulted in them being shutout in Newfoundland and NS being d*cked over by our Conservative Premiere...... Then the Cons get shutout in Newfoundland and the Liberals gaining some in Nova Scotia (if memory serves).... then we're back at it again in the government when Harper screws around some more, the Coalition comes into play as an option...... Harper then starts talking about illegal this and undemocratic that, all the while trying to play the seperatist card and villianizing the East against the rest of Canada...... then he pulls out this budget which once again attacks the East......

..... is he trying to screw everything up, or does he just not know how to do his job properly? He's supposed to be working for the country "Canada" not just the West and Central Canada, minus Quebec and maritimes.

All in all, the budget wasn't too bad, although it does go a little against my belief about NOT spending money you don't have, but infrastructure does need to be upgraded, so now is probably the best time to get started. I'm in no rush to see a return of the Liberals unless they can be an improvement on what we've got which doesn't seem likely in the near future. Ignatieff should just concentrate on getting competent at being party leader before he becomes "head cheese".

 

[Praxius]

Speaking of the budget and people not liking it......

Professor and former Conservative campaign manager Tom Flanagan speaks with CTV's Question Period on Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009.

Conservative supporters upset with Tory budget
CTV.ca | Conservative supporters upset with Tory budget

Core supporters of Canada's Conservative party are riled up about the budget handed down by Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government and some believe he has strayed from his principles, says a former party strategist.

Tom Flanagan, a professor and former Conservative campaign manager, said Sunday that these supporters are angry that the prime minister authorized a budget that will see his country plunge into an $85 billion deficit over the next five years.

"I am getting more people e-mailing me and commenting to me on this than I ever had by far on any other issue," Flanagan told CTV's Question Period on Sunday.

"I do think there is a problem among Conservative core supporters...I think many of them they don't like the budget and I guess I would believe that Mr. Harper has to do some things to reassure these people that his direction is still fundamentally Conservative."

Tasha Kheiriddin, director of the Fraser Institute's Montreal office, told Question Period that she has been hearing many of the same rumblings from the Conservative community.

"People are upset," she said.

"I think it's definitely a feeling of betrayal in the sense that this budget has very few Conservative principles in it," she added.

"The tax cuts are buried far in the fine print and the spending is very, very lavish to the point where the Liberals didn't even ask for more, so that kind of tells you that Mr. Harper really sold the store on this one."

Kheiriddin suggested Harper has painted himself into a corner by further agreeing to a Liberal request for the government to provide frequent updates to Parliament on the status of the budget.

"Mr. Ignatieff has been very clever in asking for this type of report card every three or four months to see how the government is doing," she said.

"And when he gets a bad report card, as he inevitably will, he will at some point just hold hold it up and say: 'Time for an election, folks. This hasn't worked.' And Mr. Harper will have no leg to stand on because he will have to defend this budget that he put forward that will not have worked."

Flanagan said the prime minister had few options but to go forward as he did when opposition members demanded that he include serious spending in his budget, or he would face the prospect of being voted down in Parliament.

"Given the political jam he was in, which was at least partially his own creation, I don't think he had a whole lot of choice," he said.

In order to win back his Conservative base, the prime minister may choose to woo them through non-financial means, Flanagan said.

"I think this is a done deal, it can't be undone," he said, referring to the contentious budget.

"So that's why I'm suggesting Mr. Harper has to move on to other policies, perhaps outside the budget, things like criminal justice where he can make some accomplishments that the Conservative core supporters will appreciate."

So this sounds like the Budget that may end up killing both the Conservatives and Liberals with one bullet...... then again, that won't happen unless these people who are PO'd in both situations actually stand up and show them their failures by how they vote in the next election.

 

[Praxius]

Related Update:

Liberals to back budget despite backlash
CTV.ca | Ignatieff to allow N.L. MPs to vote against budget

The federal budget is expected to be approved in a vote Tuesday evening, although four out of six Liberals from Newfoundland and Labrador plan to vote against it.

The Liberal Party has agreed to support the Tory budget but has demanded that the government submit periodic progress reports.

The demand, which was put forth in an amendment Monday night, passed by a vote of 214 to 84, with the NDP and Bloc Quebecois voting against it.

Although the amendment passed, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is now dealing with a growing backlash within his own party.

Four Newfoundland and Labrador MPs have vowed to vote down the budget, saying it negatively targets their province and robs it of about $1.6 billion in federal funding.

MPs Judy Foote, Scott Andrews, Scott Simms and Siobhan Coady have all said they'll vote against the budget if the document isn't changed.

St. John's Mayor Dennis O'Keefe criticized the remaining two MPs -- Todd Russell and Gerry Byrne -- for not indicating that they'll vote down the budget.

Russell said he'll vote for the budget to promote party unity and Byrne has not yet said how he'll vote.

"I applaud what the four are doing but it's really tragic and unfortunate that the other two so far are not standing up for their province," O'Keefe told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.

"They were placed in Ottawa to represent the people of Newfoundland and Labrador."

Ding ding ding.... exactly..... someone give this guy a gold sticker.

O'Keefe said the $1.6 billion figure is based upon the equalization formula and changes to that formula proposed in the budget will create the loss for the province over the next three years.

"That's a tremendous hit for any province," he said.

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said the change is the result of the government's decision to cap the growth of equalization payments to the rate of economic growth.

"Certainly one of the principles involved in equalization is that all provinces should be treated equally," he told the Commons.

"It is not open to one province to elect to have unrestrained growth of equalization, sharing payments, whether it is through the accords or through formal equalization."

Ignatieff spoke to Prime Minister Stephen Harper late Monday asking him to rethink the measures that would penalize Newfoundland.

"I said to the prime minister, 'You can't run a federation this way, unilateral-without-warning changes,"' Ignatieff said following Monday's vote.

"I said, would he push the pause button on those changes and rethink his approach to get greater national unity in a time of crisis, and he said no."

Ignatieff did not say whether the MPs would face discipline for breaking ranks in Tuesday's vote.

So Iggy sees this blaitent attack on the Maritimes, he brings it to the attention of Harper and asks if he'd change it for the sake of national unity in these current times, and he flat out says no.

Well suck a d*ck Harper..... the sh*t's just getting started!

So now that Iggy knows this.... he's still going to vote for it?

He's just as much of a Stooge as Harper if he does.

The Atlantic Accord was done for a reason, and one of those reasons is because of how crappy it is around here for finding decent jobs..... which is why so many took off to go work in the oil sands. There's very little put into the maritimes compared to the rest of the nation, except for a bone here and there.... Nova Scotia has the natural gas and Newfoundland has the offshore oil, and the one and only chance we both have for getting some real jobs around here and using the money from those resources to build things back up here, have just been screwed over and now the chances of actually keeping our feet on the ground are turing to dust.

Now we get the Accord all figured out a while ago, and then he pulls this stunt at the last second to screw us out of it, yet again..... citing that everybody needs to be treated equally.

Well how equal is it going to be when the maritimes are already damn well in the hole as it is compared to other provinces in Canada, and then you screw around with the only thing that tosses us a friggin bone here just for political punishment because we didn't vote Conservative (Newfoundland esspecially)

Now we're going to head further into the hole a hell of a lot faster then the rest of the country..... which means expect more b*tching and moaning from the maritimes for more hand outs.

Man, I'd love to kick harper so damn hard, square in his NNNnnnnnaaaaddddssss!!!!

 

[Liberalman]

The Newfoundland MPs political careers are not over if they vote against the budget they might be kicked out of the Liberal Caucus and become independents. They will always be voted in for provincial politics and will be hailed as heroes in Newfoundland.

 

[Praxius]

The Newfoundland MPs political careers are not over if they vote against the budget they might be kicked out of the Liberal Caucus and become independents. They will always be voted in for provincial politics and will be hailed as heroes in Newfoundland.

See, I don't get this approach taken by the Cons or Liberals.... if members of your party disagree with something the party is going to do, they get kicked out?

Isn't everybody's input worth hearing when it comes to the direction of the party and those they represent? Where's the democracy within the parties when you're forced to do what other's want you to do, or face losing your job? They are doing exactly what their jobs are supposed to do..... represent those who voted them into their positions.

So now they're stuck between betraying those they represent, or lose their jobs in the parties they're supposed to help shape?

This same approach is now leaking into the wider spectrum of the government with Harper trying to force other parties to follow the same routine when it comes to his decisions..... do as he says or face the government being delayed or bills that will cripple your party's methods of getting funding.

This is no longer a Democracy if this continues.

 

[VanIsle]

The Newfoundland MPs political careers are not over if they vote against the budget they might be kicked out of the Liberal Caucus and become independents. They will always be voted in for provincial politics and will be hailed as heroes in Newfoundland.

And being hailed as heroes in their home province does what for them? Probably helps pump up the over-sized ego of the weasel Danny Williams but that's about it.

 

[Zzarchov]

as compared to being in a party?

Parties are not the basis of our democracy, an MP can hop parties or leave them entirely as he sees fit.

 

[Colpy]

I am Currently reading Sir John A Macdonald's biography by Richard Gwynn, and it has reminded me about what a huge part patronage has played in the history of this country.....

If you want consideration from the gov't, you have to vote for them.....if you have no representation in the caucus, then you are SOL.
Righty or wrongly, It has always been thus in Canada, since well before Confederation....patronage is a major part of the glue that holds us together......

 

[Cannuck]

Unfortunately for Maritimers, their political opinions don't mean much and with each passing election they will mean less and less. The population is not keeping up with the rest of Canada. Politicians have less and less need to heed their concerns. Better get used to it.

 

[Praxius]

Unfortunately for Maritimers, their political opinions don't mean much and with each passing election they will mean less and less. The population is not keeping up with the rest of Canada. Politicians have less and less need to heed their concerns. Better get used to it.

Hey CoontFuk do you purposely try to troll your ass around here everyday or does it just come naturally?

 

[Cannuck]

Hey CoontFuk do you purposely try to troll your ass around here everyday or does it just come naturally?

Is there something in my post you disagree with?