Department of Cybernetics, anyone?

[Machjo]

what would be your thoughts on the creation of a department of cybernetics? it would be responsible not only for mechanical cybernetics, but social cybernetics too. Essentially, it would be responsible for identifying economic inefficiencies in our social system and restructure accordingly.

Of course it would cover a wide range of social structures, so I'll just give a few examples here to give an idea of the wide range of responsibilities that it would have.

Language

Few canadians learn their second language well in high school, and this results in costs to both the public and private sectors by way of translators interpreters, language teachers and the like.

Pedagogical cyberneticitsts would propose an easier sommon second language for all to learn that would have to meet certain criteria such as 100% logical spelling-to-pronunciation relation, no unnecessary rules of grammar, no exceptions to the rules, roots from various languages, precise and unambiguous grammar, no or at least few homonyms, etc.

This language could be learnt to fluency by the end of high school, which would save the economy billions of dollars in both the private and public sectors in translation, interpretation and teaching costs, in the police, hospitals, fire, paramedics, businesses, the tourism industry, international relations, etc.

Food production

Teach people organic gardening and vegetarian cookery. This could be beneficial both professionally and in home economics in the backyard and kitchen, especially among the poor who can't afford to go to restaurants. Meat production has been proven to be highly inefficient in land use and grain use. Pesticides also cost money for water filtration, medical allergies, long-term medical effects, etc.

Communications and transportation

Enclosed solar-powered (heat, light, ventilation, etc.) all-season walking and cycling paths. People on social assistance who don't know how to use a bicycle could be offered free cycling courses too that they could use to go to school or work later.

Tax restructuring

Tax economic undesirables and lower taxes on desirables. This would naturally promote a more efficient market too.

Etc.

of course this department could get into all kinds of other areas too, looking for economic inefficiencies in every nook and crany, both in the public and private sectors. and whenever a recession comes along, and the people insist on 'stimulus', the government just gives the money to this department, and it creates the jobs teaching people or restructuring our infrastructure.

What would your thoughts on such a department?

 

[Machjo]

One irony I could see with the creation of such a department is that it woulsd be its job to eliminate jobs. By introducing an efficient auxiliary language in secondary schools across the country, it would be putting alot of translators and interpretors out of work within a generation, and alot of university language teachers too. By building an efficient transport system allowing people to walk and use bicycles comfortably rain or shine in all seasons, we'd see job losses in the petrol industry especially. By promoting on-line university courses whenever possible, it would be putting even more pople out of work in the petrol industry. By teaching more efficient eating and agricultural practices it would be putting the pesticide industry and a lot of land out of business. The medical establishment might lose jobs too, especially among dieticians.

This is one scary thing I could see about such a department; it's very job would be to eliminate jobs. Cutting fat would be its job.

I personally would see nothing wrong with this though in that we could simply give these savings to charity as we wish. the poor would be the greatest benefactors in this since they could then live more efficiently, at less cost.

 

[Said1]

Reminds me of the Reich Chamber of Culture and other such departments controlling all realms of Nazi social and economic matters. Not that all your ideas are bad, mind you.

 

[Machjo]

Reminds me of the Reich Chamber of Culture and other such departments controlling all realms of Nazi social and economic matters. Not that all your ideas are bad, mind you.

Interesting. and indeed you have a point. Efficiency itself can be open to interpretation. To an extreme, it could mean eugenics and killing anyone who can't work. Clearly this is not the intent, and of course this department would be required to define efficiency within a humanitarian context (i.e. the most efficient way to achieve humanitarian aims). Certainly a common second language designed to be easy to learn would make all Canadians, even those who can't go on to university, fluently bilingual in their first language and the auxiliary language. Certainly this would serve the humanitarian aim of promoting more human interation between French-Canadians and English-Canadians. It would thus serve a pacific role in society. Free vegetarian cookery classes and organic gardening classes would promote health, as would enclosed solar-powered pedestrian and cycling tunnels. So clearly this would not be serving the same purposes as eugenics by any means, though I understand this is not what you meant.

Looking at it from a more authoritarian perspective, we could argue that this department would be more technocratic than democratic, and as such more authoritarian like the regime, which is what I think you were getting at. And no doubt about it it would be, relatively speaking. But of course the department would be headed by a democratically elected government, so necessary balances would be in place (oops, forgot, the nazis were elected too). OK, let me try this again. By promoting more efficiencies in the system, we could redirect more money to free education for all without busting our budget, so at least we'd have a more educated electorate, and because the economy would be so efficient no one would be destitute. So not likely that a Nazi party would come to power.

 

[Machjo]

I just thought that another point we would need would be to clearly define the 'sacred' vs. 'secular' components of the economic system. Without this, the department could, for example, decide that taxpayers are spending too much money on teachers wasting their time teaching students an inefficient form of English with unnecessary exceptions to rules, illogical spelling, etc. While a simplified or streamlined English could indeed save taxpayers much money in teachers' salaries, and students' time in learning illogical spelling and exceptions which could otherwise be used in learning more economically more productive things, and I'm sure we can all agree that many of us, including myself, owing to a sentimental attachment to our native tongue, would not be willing to allow schools to gut our mother tongue for the sake of saving a little money, as cybernetically legitimate as the department's claim to efficiency would be.

Something similar might have to apply to literature which again is not cybernetically 'efficient'.

One solution to this would simply be to legislate a list of economic entities that would be classified as 'sacred', such as mother-tongue instruction, our Gregorian Calendar. and literature, among others, that would be off limits to the department, no matter how 'inefficient' they might be. But anything not on the list, such as our second language, or a second calendar, etc. to be used for efficient international communication, or pedestiran and cycling routes that we wouldn't necessrily consider to be a fundamental part of our 'sacred' identity as a people, would be fully under the authority of this department to make recommendations to promote maximum efficiency.

By making a distinction between 'sacred' and 'secular' components of the econmy, we could ensure the creation of an efficient system without sacrificing our culture in the process. issues relating to Christian ethics could be classified under the sacred too. I'm not a Chrisitan myself, but most Canadians are, so clearly they would not want this department looking into the most efficient way to abort a feotus, for example. This way, excesses of such a department could be aboided.

 

[Said1]

You're still promoting an entity that governs what is correct and what isn't, on top of present mechanism - removing even more personal freedoms . The reality of what you;re purposing falls in line with what is presently already wasteful with more waste (free cooking classes?) and not realistic given that modifying international languages can only serve to limit people.


Less goberment, man.

 

[darkbeaver]

What present government would be permitted to increase social efficiency at the direct cost of the so called free market?

 

[Machjo]

You're still promoting an entity that governs what is correct and what isn't, on top of present mechanism - removing even more personal freedoms . The reality of what you;re purposing falls in line with what is presently already wasteful with more waste (free cooking classes?) and not realistic given that modifying international languages can only serve to limit people.


Less goberment, man.

You're right to a certain degree. to some degree this thread is my reaction to the talk of bailout of the auto industry, which is equally based on beliefs of right and wrong. Clearly those who should oppose the materialism inherent in north american auto culture would oppose this bailout, since it essentially forces us to 'buy a car' against our will. Sure I'd rather the government not 'stimulate' the economy, but if it must, then just as auto-addicts want it to subsidise their car purchase, I'd rather it subsidize my environmentalism. why can it subsidize one and not the other? this is the problem with government 'stimulation', and that's why you're right. the best thing would be to just drop interest rates, let the dollar fall, and adjust that way.

But it seems that the auto-addicts want me to buy a car whether I want to or not.

so if I must subsidize, then at least let me say how you'll spend my money. So how do we solve this when everyone wants a bailout, but any bailout is laden with values and beliefs?