Almost 900,000 Canadian children living in poverty, StatsCan finds

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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Almost 900,000 Canadian children living in poverty, StatsCan finds

Commons was unanimously resolved to eliminate child poverty, Statistics Canada says there are still almost 900,000 children living in the poorest of homes. The latest census numbers released Thursday show that an estimated 879,955 Canadian children are living in low-income households, and that more than a third of these deprived children are in the care of single mothers.

That grim portrait of the country's most vulnerable has changed little in a quarter of century.
In 1980, 20 per cent of pre-schoolers and 18.7 per cent of school-aged children lived in low-income families.
Twenty-five years later, those numbers barely improved to 19.3 per cent and 17 per cent respectively.
J.J. Stiles doesn't exactly fit the typical image of Canada's poor.

The single mother of two girls has a university degree, a diploma in radio and television arts and a certificate to teach English-as-a- second-language. She works in Toronto as an administrative assistant and makes just over $37,000 a year.
Although Statistic Canada's low-income cutoff - Canada's closest equivalent to a poverty line - for a Toronto family of three is $31,801, Stiles comes up against financial difficulties every month.
"Come on. If I'm above the poverty line - you've got to be kidding me, because I am living in poverty," she said.
"The poverty line? I think they need to reassess that."

After rent and groceries, Stiles sometimes finds herself at the end of the month washing clothes by hand and hanging them to dry in the bathtub. She can't go into her purse and find a spare loonie for the laundry, as she simply doesn't have one.
A few months back her daughter needed black pants and black shoes for a school concert. Stiles was unsure where she would get the money. Thankfully her mother offered to buy the new togs.

"I don't have money in my bank. I don't have RRSPs. I don't have any savings. I don't have any extra money to put away for my children, for their school," she said.
"I live paycheque to paycheque."

In 1989, the House of Commons unanimously passed a resolution to eliminate poverty among Canadian children by the year 2000.
Statistics Canada defines low-income families as those who spend at least one-fifth more of their income than the average family on basic necessities such as food, shelter and clothing.

Stiles was lured to Toronto more than a year ago with hopes of a better paying job than the one she had in North Bay, Ont. - where her yearly income was $14,000.

Not only did the move mean a higher income, but she believed it would mean a brighter future for her girls.
Things didn't pan out the way she had envisioned.
Stiles feels sad when her kids ask for brand-name cereals as she can't afford such "luxuries."
Instead of fresh vegetables and cuts of meat, she buys chicken fingers and frozen vegetables. These are the more frugal options at the grocery store.

The 2006 census marks the first time low-income rates were calculated based on after-tax income, a move the agency said more accurately reflects what families have available to spend.
Using the old criteria, before-tax income, there were some 1.2 million children living in poverty in 2005 - relatively unchanged from the 2001 census.

For a family of four in a large city, an income of $38,610 is the cutoff point. The same family in a rural area would be considered low- income at $26,579.

Lars Osberg, an economics professor at Dalhousie University in Halifax, said the median income has been flat in Canada since the early 1980s and that at the very bottom of the income distribution the country has "seen really significant cuts to social assistance and social programs."

"Income gains in Canada have been very narrowly concentrated at the top of the distribution," said Osberg. "Most people haven't seen much change in their real income."

While many Canadians think of children living in poverty as an issue in developing countries, for the Canadian children living in poverty the third world seems a lot closer to home.

World Vision is an international development agency but after donors asked about home-grown poverty, the organization took an in-depth look at Canada's poor and decided there was a need for some of their work to be done here.
Their study entitled "Living Below the Line" was based largely on the 2001 census numbers as well as their own research.
Clayton Rowe, with World Vision, said the study found Canada's poor was made up of new immigrants to the country, aboriginal peoples and that the largest group of most vulnerable children came from families headed by single mothers.
He also found 40 per cent of these poor children live in urban centres, such as Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Vancouver.

"How do you compare poverty in sub-Saharan Africa with poverty in Canada?" Rowe asked, adding that it is difficult to ignore the ones in front of us for the others across the ocean.
He said no matter where they live, children should have the opportunity to be healthy, educated and safe.
So when the economics of a household falls below a certain level, Canadian kids may not necessarily be starving but they go to bed hungry, Rowe said.

He gave the example of people earning the minimum wage in Ontario will not be able to make it out of poverty. He cited the example of a single mom with two children who barely have enough to pay the rent, let alone the child-care issues.
The latest Ontario budget just lifted the minimum wage to $8.75.

Ann Decter is the national coordinator of Campaign 2000, a cross- Canada public movement to build awareness and support for the resolution to end child poverty.

She said politicians made a grand statement to end child poverty, but they didn't talk about the steps needed to be taken in order to achieve that goal.

"Basically there is a complete failure of implementation," she said, adding that Campaign 2000 is trying to push the government to adhere to timetables and targets.

While the federal government has failed to do enough to end this problem, she said some provinces are trying.
Decter mentions Quebec's expansion of affordable childcare, increased child benefits and improved parental leave has resulted in a consistent decline in child poverty rates since 1997.

Decter said Newfoundland has started to bring in changes but it is too early to know if those measures have taken affect.
She says the rest of Canada will have to adopt what has worked in Quebec in order to reduce child poverty.
A 2007 study by UNICEF, "Child poverty in perspective: An overview of child well-being in rich countries," found that kids in Canada fared better than children in the United States and Britain. But Canada is hardly a leader of the international pack.
The study looked at six measures of child well-being: material, health-safety, education, family-peer, educational, behaviour-risk and subjective.

Twenty-one countries were ranked as to how well they looked after their children.
Overall the Netherlands was ranked in the top spot (4.2) when it came to child well-being. The United States (18) and the United Kingdom (18.2) nearly tied for last place. Canada tied with Greece (11.8) for a spot in the middle, just above Poland (12.3) but below Germany (11.2).




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It isn't all bad! We're a little better than Poland.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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My kids live in poverty, and worse, they live as slave labor. Poor brats.

Okay, but, putting on my serious pants. Considering the way that so many Canadians seem to define poverty (most of the people I know who label themselves poor still own computers, tv's, DVD players, buy new clothes, eat meals out), I'm shocked the number isn't higher.

That's not saying that nothing should be done about it, but, I'm surprised it's not higher.

Now, one line in the article which was of particular interest to me... "How do you compare poverty in sub-Saharan Africa with poverty in Canada?" Rowe asked, adding that it is difficult to ignore the ones in front of us for the others across the ocean... it then goes on to explain that many of these kids aren't starving, but they go to bed hungry.

I pay good money, tons of taxes, into social programs that are supposed to help ensure that these kids aren't going to bed hungry, that families are given what they need to survive. If World Vision has decided that they need to divert some of their funds and energies here, it had better be to whip the hell out of those running the social programs and get them off their butts, because World Vision DOES have more pressing issues on their agenda than kids going to bed hungry. The hunger a lot of Canadian kids know is nothing compared to the starvation and death occurring elsewhere (although I know there are probably the rare few).

Whip the social programs back into shape. Demand it. I want my money's worth dammit.
 
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Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
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48
BC
My kids live in poverty, and worse, they live as slave labor. Poor brats.

Okay, but, putting on my serious pants. Considering the way that so many Canadians seem to define poverty (most of the people I know who label themselves poor still own computers, tv's, DVD players, buy new clothes, eat meals out), I'm shocked the number isn't higher.

That's not saying that nothing should be done about it, but, I'm surprised it's not higher.

Now, one line in the article which was of particular interest to me... "How do you compare poverty in sub-Saharan Africa with poverty in Canada?" Rowe asked, adding that it is difficult to ignore the ones in front of us for the others across the ocean... it then goes on to explain that many of these kids aren't starving, but they go to bed hungry.

I completely agree. Considering the average family world wide lives on two dollars a day I think we have a lot further to fall. Obviously our elite are getting the shaft here. How can we blame them for exporting jobs when we demand more than a sub-Saharan African? I say lower the working age to three and bring back the strap! There is no reason people shouldn't be dying in mines at 12 like the good old days - when an industrialist was king and a commoner knew his place!

I pay good money, tons of taxes, into social programs that are supposed to help ensure that these kids aren't going to bed hungry, that families are given what they need to survive. If World Vision has decided that they need to divert some of their funds and energies here, it had better be to whip the hell out of those running the social programs and get them off their butts, because World Vision DOES have more pressing issues on their agenda than kids going to bed hungry. The hunger a lot of Canadian kids know is nothing compared to the starvation and death occurring elsewhere (although I know there are probably the rare few).

Whip the social programs back into shape. Demand it. I want my money's worth dammit.

Not me. I would like to see less government and fewer taxes. I'm sick of government trying to wipe everyones nose for them. BC just implemented a "green tax" f**king bast**ds!! Meanwhile China and India couldn't care less about the environment. We're really cutting our own throats with this BS.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
I completely agree. Considering the average family world wide lives on two dollars a day I think we have a lot further to fall. Obviously our elite are getting the shaft here. How can we blame them for exporting jobs when we demand more than a sub-Saharan African? I say lower the working age to three and bring back the strap! There is no reason people shouldn't be dying in mines at 12 like the good old days - when an industrialist was king and a commoner knew his place!

I would like to see less government and fewer taxes. I'm sick of government trying to wipe everyones nose for them. BC just implemented a "green tax" f**king bast**ds!! Meanwhile China and India couldn't care less about the environment. We're really cutting our own throats with this BS.

Well, if that's your vision, then you're clearly not agreeing with me.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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A lot of the problem is they who pull the strings are they who are so loathe to see their money being given away as "handouts" to the poor - while subsidies for industry and huge buy-out packages for errant CEO's (Ontario Hydro) and fat multiple pensions for ministers of multiple portfolio are perfectly acceptable.

Woof!
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
A lot of the problem is they who pull the strings are they who are so loathe to see their money being given away as "handouts" to the poor - while subsidies for industry and huge buy-out packages for errant CEO's (Ontario Hydro) and fat multiple pensions for ministers of multiple portfolio are perfectly acceptable.

Woof!

 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
A lot of the problem is they who pull the strings are they who are so loathe to see their money being given away as "handouts" to the poor - while subsidies for industry and huge buy-out packages for errant CEO's (Ontario Hydro) and fat multiple pensions for ministers of multiple portfolio are perfectly acceptable.

Woof!

And that's where I'm angry. We've paid already. And now some international relief organization we give to in order to provide charity for countries in even worse situations, is having to step in and do the job we already paid the government to do? So we're essentially paying twice? Where else in life would we put up with that?
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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In Canada it is very often a choice to be poor. Having children when you have very little money or potential to earn money is a very bad choice to make for you and the child.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
In Canada it is very often a choice to be poor. Having children when you have very little money or potential to earn money is a very bad choice to make for you and the child.

That's why poor people should be sterilized right?
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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48
BC
People need to make wise choices. Do not have children until you can afford to look after them properly.

So who gets to decide if their choice was right or not? How much money should you have before being allowed to have children?
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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So who gets to decide if their choice was right or not? How much money should you have before being allowed to have children?
That is a decision left up to the folks having or not having children.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
In Canada it is very often a choice to be poor. Having children when you have very little money or potential to earn money is a very bad choice to make for you and the child.

A choice to be poor? I'm sure a money-oriented neanderthal would understand the concept of profit at any cost. Most often, that cost is the incomes of those who can least afford it - like millworkers in a one-industry lumber town or ore processors where raw product is now being shipped offshore in the name of investor greed....

A choice to be poor.... Moron is a choice too....

Woof!
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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People need to make wise choices. Do not have children until you can afford to look after them properly.


That's bull. Not all families start out poor. There are too many unforeseen pitfalls in life to think that abstaining from sex, or aborting any whoopses, is going to be the answer. My hubby and I started out with a lot of money and chose to have two kids. I've gotten sick and am now technically disabled, and if something happened to him, or he left, we'd be screwed. We'd probably end up in the 'poor' bracket too, and the instant someone came and told me to suck it up, my kids shouldn't exist, I think I'd probably take out their teeth with a baseball bat.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,844
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I can only go by my experience. My wife and I waited until we had a house and a secure income before we decided to have children. We also had insurance just in case there was an unforseen circumstance where one of us could no longer earn an income. My wife stayed home to look after the children until they were full-time in school (ie. grade one). It's a matter of choice to have children living in poverty.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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bliss
On another (more elitist, jaded) note.... if you look at the issue of 'the poor' having children from the viewpoint of requiring a sustainable country, discouraging them from doing so would be highly detrimental. Investing in food and education for a new generation of children means a future tax base. As it stands, our population is shrinking, and without a new generation of tax payers, our futures would look pretty grim.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
On another (more elitist, jaded) note.... if you look at the issue of 'the poor' having children from the viewpoint of requiring a sustainable country, discouraging them from doing so would be highly detrimental. Investing in food and education for a new generation of children means a future tax base. As it stands, our population is shrinking, and without a new generation of tax payers, our futures would look pretty grim.

The wealthy don't generally have enough children to support a healthy population. One thing with being rich is you need to be selfish or, in the very least, it helps a great deal, and sharing ones prosperity isn't something the wealthy like too much IMO or they wouldn't be wealthy.

I know in Germany one city had to destroy 45,000 homes because the population has dropped so much there isn't anyone to occupy them. This is happening all over Germany according to the CBC. It is easy to see this will be happening here too.

Someone needs to have children. I personally have no problem with my tax money being used for that purpose; and yes, I have no problem with my money going to single mothers raising their illegitimate children (i.e., welfare).
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
The wealthy don't generally have enough children to support a healthy population. One thing with being rich is you need to be selfish or, in the very least, it helps a great deal, and sharing ones prosperity isn't something the wealthy like too much IMO or they wouldn't be wealthy.

I know in Germany one city had to destroy 45,000 homes because the population has dropped so much there isn't anyone to occupy them. This is happening all over Germany according to the CBC. It is easy to see this will be happening here too.

Someone needs to have children. I personally have no problem with my tax money being used for that purpose; and yes, I have no problem with my money going to single mothers raising their illegitimate children (i.e., welfare).

There was another article recently as well about Japan having to try to switch more and more of their factories over to automated systems because their population is dwindling as well. It's why I kind of laugh when people rant about population control being the solution to pollution... because the biggest polluters are mostly all shrinking. Canada's birth rate is below the 2.3 needed for replacement, and has been for a while. Russia has declared days when people should go home from work to fornicate in order to try to boost their numbers. We need immigration and we need birth. Otherwise we'll be dead in the water.

And, btw, the link isn't 'wealth', the link tends to be education. The higher the degree of education women receive, the fewer children they have. It's not just the 'elites' or the 'rich' having fewer kids.