Canada is not just a hotel.

[dancing-loon]

Canada is much more than a hotel

Citizenship can neither be bred by preaching nor be enforced by law. It can be encouraged or not. At present it is not. Canada's national interest requires, first, a major change in the legal terms on which migrants come. After three years as residents they may, if they wish and satisfy a minimal test, become citizens. But if not, their permission to reside and work here continues. So does access to the hospitality of our multiculturalism. Legally, we minimize the meaning and responsibilities of citizenship. We give substance to the jibe that, by making so light of being Canadian, we are the hotel among countries: a place to which you come and go at your convenience, in escape from the obligations of a household.
.....
We used to think of immigrants as people who have identified themselves with a new land. A rather different reality was illustrated during the sudden war in Lebanon two years ago. The danger overwhelmed our embassy with a rush of thousands of people living in Lebanon but expecting to be rescued at Canadian taxpayers' expense. Contemporary communication tempts recent comers, whether residents or legally citizens, to remain more emotionally identified with relatives and friends whence they came, with that country's politics and conflicts, than with the people and affairs of Canada. A Canadian passport may be little more than a flag of convenience.
......
Equitable tax reform would not only strengthen the meaning of citizenship and the sense of Canadian identity. It would facilitate an onslaught against the rapidly growing evasion through external havens of both personal and corporate taxation.
....
Our special Canadian problem, however, is our identity.

Please, read full artikel... I have only picked out a few samples.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ory/Front/home
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When I came over in the late fifties, we had to wait five years before we could apply for citizenship. Now I read it is only 3 years.

To mind came the Khadr family, who are Canadians but live and fight somewhere else. A classic example of what the author is talking about.

 

[NorthrnMystique]

The immigration system is BC...
I'm sorry....I meant 'BS'

The perennial issue is the Canadian identity, not because it doesnt exist but because Canadians are the only inheritors of a great country who forget who they are.

I would state that Canada is a hotel, but another comparison comes to mind...
Perhaps a brothel would suffice...

 

[MikeyDB]

These issues aren't remarkably surprising when you consider the inept governments that have played the game with Ottawa when it comes to transfer payments and provincial authority. A "Canadian" is simply expression of where they live. If you live in BC then Canada is BC if you're living in Quebec then Canada is Quebec and if you're living in Ontario then Canada is Ontario.... There is no Canada per se there are only combative provincial heirarchies vying for the biggest piece of the over-all "pie".

 

[hermanntrude]

Canada is much more than a hotel

Citizenship can neither be bred by preaching nor be enforced by law. It can be encouraged or not. At present it is not. Canada's national interest requires, first, a major change in the legal terms on which migrants come. After three years as residents they may, if they wish and satisfy a minimal test, become citizens. But if not, their permission to reside and work here continues. So does access to the hospitality of our multiculturalism. Legally, we minimize the meaning and responsibilities of citizenship. We give substance to the jibe that, by making so light of being Canadian, we are the hotel among countries: a place to which you come and go at your convenience, in escape from the obligations of a household.
.....
We used to think of immigrants as people who have identified themselves with a new land. A rather different reality was illustrated during the sudden war in Lebanon two years ago. The danger overwhelmed our embassy with a rush of thousands of people living in Lebanon but expecting to be rescued at Canadian taxpayers' expense. Contemporary communication tempts recent comers, whether residents or legally citizens, to remain more emotionally identified with relatives and friends whence they came, with that country's politics and conflicts, than with the people and affairs of Canada. A Canadian passport may be little more than a flag of convenience.
......
Equitable tax reform would not only strengthen the meaning of citizenship and the sense of Canadian identity. It would facilitate an onslaught against the rapidly growing evasion through external havens of both personal and corporate taxation.
....
Our special Canadian problem, however, is our identity.

Please, read full artikel... I have only picked out a few samples.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ory/Front/home
------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came over in the late fifties, we had to wait five years before we could apply for citizenship. Now I read it is only 3 years.

To mind came the Khadr family, who are Canadians but live and fight somewhere else. A classic example of what the author is talking about.

this is an interesting point you're raising.

it kind of depends on what level of maturity you see canada as holding. Any new country can expect a lot of of immigration as it becomes settled. Over the years a transition occurs where immigration becomes more controlled and population growth is expected to come mostly from reproduction of the resident citizens.

This is the traditional method of the colonization of a country. however, canada is a little different, since it's so large and didn't have the usual things which encourage mass immigration, it didn't get immediately overrun and populated to the levels which places like the USA did. Now the transition is slower and driven by other things than the colonization of other countries were.

Basically you'll have to decide, as Canadians, whether your first stage of colonization is entirely over and you want to shut the borders down to the same extent as some other countries or whether you'll stay the open and free country Canada has always been seen as, allowing the semi-refugees and people from countries less habitable to enter freely and join in the cultural mixing which creates the future of Canada. there are advantages and disadvantages to both, and i'm not really qualified to expound upon them, since i'm (a) not canadian, and (b) biased and (c) not very clever.

 

[MikeyDB]

Hey Herm how's it goin...eh?

It's really simple actually...

As Canadian corporations become increasingly interwoven with American companies, the formula of sweatshops and slave-labour becomes acceptable. It's "good" economics to oen the doors of immigration to anyone willing to come to Canada to take jobs that are temporary part time (so pension and health benefits aren't necessary) and we can listen to Stephen Harper tell us that the Candaian economy is 'strong'!

It's econo-politics and has little to do with any altruism regarding the plight of foreign nationals being hunted down as "terrorists" by Yankee paid mercenaries.

 

[dancing-loon]

In the 50 years I have lived here I have witnessed quite a change! One very obvious change is the almost doubled population. I think in the fifties we had about 17 to 18 million people living here. Now we are well over 33 million! Another very obvious change are the many Asian immigrants, and not just China, but from India and Pakistan, as well as many more Blacks are now walking the Toronto streets. The "coziness" I felt when I first came over seems to have disappeared. Everything seems to move so much faster now! People walk simply uninterested past each other. Of course, this is just my observation and my feelings, but the truth is Canada has to and is moving along with Free Trade and Globalization.
My worry is that we are too generous in our immigration policy. We should slow down and allow the present immigrants to settle and establish themselves first.

I've selected one short paragraph from an article titled Globalization (2001) Does Canada Have A Future? to illustrate the meaning of what is at stake.

The Liberal government and its Canadian Heritage Minister Sheila Copps pay lip service to preserving Canadian culture, but it is the powerful lobby groups for the global business community that truly influence federal decision-making.
So what does this mean for Canada?
Perhaps that it will be left to the anti-globalization protesters, the struggling political left, and the Canadian unions to champion those Canadian values that transcend economic considerations.
Does it matter whether Canada matters in this century?
It is Canada’s reputation as a just, fair and social democratic country that has attracted so many people fleeing countries ravaged by the most decimating effects of globalization, such as poverty and inequality. Ironically, Canada has in turn become, demographically at least, a truly globalized nation. Canada’s shared history and cultural diversity make it a country worth fighting for.
The test will be whether Canada can achieve the necessary balance between economic globalization and humanitarian globalization it so desperately needs to survive as a distinctly “Canadian” society.

That was written in 2001. I'm afraid we have forgotten to fight for OUR country.

http://globalization.icaap.org/content/v1.1/gabriellegray.html

 

[hermanntrude]

In the 50 years I have lived here I have witnessed quite a change! One very obvious change is the almost doubled population. I think in the fifties we had about 17 to 18 million people living here. Now we are well over 33 million! Another very obvious change are the many Asian immigrants, and not just China, but from India and Pakistan, as well as many more Blacks are now walking the Toronto streets. The "coziness" I felt when I first came over seems to have disappeared. Everything seems to move so much faster now! People walk simply uninterested past each other. Of course, this is just my observation and my feelings, but the truth is Canada has to and is moving along with Free Trade and Globalization.
My worry is that we are too generous in our immigration policy. We should slow down and allow the present immigrants to settle and establish themselves first.

sorry to point this out but immigration has been happening in all developed countries and any country which has a reasonable immigration policy has seen an enormous increase in indian, chinese, black and middle-eastern immigrants. the reason? it's **** to live in india, china, africa and the middle east, and they want out. Same reason anyone came to canada in the first place. Canada is definitely not the only place where things have changed and if it was one of the places where nothing had changed, then it wouldn't be the Canada you're proud to be part of.

 

[dancing-loon]

sorry to point this out but immigration has been happening in all developed countries and any country which has a reasonable immigration policy has seen an enormous increase in indian, chinese, black and middle-eastern immigrants. the reason? it's **** to live in india, china, africa and the middle east, and they want out. Same reason anyone came to canada in the first place. Canada is definitely not the only place where things have changed and if it was one of the places where nothing had changed, then it wouldn't be the Canada you're proud to be part of.

I felt more at home a few decades ago! I'm sure my children are just fine, totally immersed with it, and my grandchildren even more so. Perhaps I'm a little nostalgic, dwelling on the memories.

I have spoken with enough Germans living in Germany who are bitterly complaining about too many immigrants, too many not wanting or making an effort to integrate, to learn the language, too much clinging together and taking over entire sections of a city... practically isolating themselves. Increased criminality.
Britain? "England is no more; it’s just a memory; it’s a disaster."

As you say, it is everywhere in the western countries. For me that is something to get used to.
It is understandable that Canada has a hard time defining itself, have an identity, be patriotic. It's a sign of the times and can not be reversed, unless we close the doors for a while and allow New-Canadians to grow roots.

I wonder what would the policy be if Natives were in power, at least of immigration, since it is their land that's being overrun. Have Natives ever voiced their opinions and concerns, their wishes?

 

[FrootLoops]

Is Canada a "hotel"?

These quote were written by

TOM KENT

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

April 25, 2008 at 11:09 PM EDT

For Full article click here

...We want immigrants who will in their diversity contribute to the development of that Canadianism. We do not want immigrants who dilute it by leaving their hearts elsewhere.

Citizenship can neither be bred by preaching nor be enforced by law. It can be encouraged or not. At present it is not.

Legally, we minimize the meaning and responsibilities of citizenship. We give substance to the jibe that, by making so light of being Canadian, we are the hotel among countries: a place to which you come and go at your convenience, in escape from the obligations of a household...

Immigration should depend on the intent to become Canadian. It would give the right to live here for three years. Within that time, the immigrant could either become a citizen or leave.

If this procedure were to be challenged before the Supreme Court, Parliament should use the "notwithstanding" provision of the Constitution to uphold the law against the arrogance of lawyers. ...

... The duty to pay taxes should be inherent in citizenship. Where the citizen chooses from time to time to live is irrelevant. The obligation is to the state that provides the rights of citizenship. Taxation is the price you pay to have those rights. But not, at present, if you are Canadian. Live in Barbados, or wherever, and you are Canadian free of charge...

... The legal failure to link citizenship and tax invites the alienation that increasingly weakens our national politics, that among some newcomers encourages indifference to public affairs except those that impinge on their countries of origin...


..An immediate penalty for tax delinquency would be international notice that the offender's passport has become invalid. That would apply equally to citizens by birth and by naturalization. After a fair notice, this would be followed by cancellation of a citizenship acquired by naturalization. Citizenship by birth cannot be so thrown aside (except, of course, on the initiative of someone who values it less than a foreign rank), but the delinquency is reason to refuse a passport in all cases. A tax offender who nevertheless presented herself or himself for return to Canada would be required to pay what was due, with interest and penalties, or be admitted into detention...

I will chime in later but I want to see some responses first so people aren't commenting on my views but on the article.

 

[karrie]

welcome froot loops. This article was already posted once here, so I've merged your thread and loon's together. Feel free to start a thread introducing yourself as well. We'd love to know who we're chatting with. Once again, welcome to CC :canada: