Council Member
Posts: 1,688 
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
June 12th, 2008, 07:36 PM
these kids were forcibly removed from there family's for no other reason than that they were Native. They weren't put into foster care, they were shipped off to residential schools where they were punished for speaking their own language. They were "required" to only speak english, convert to christianity, basically they were required to become "white".
these kids were forcibly removed from there family's for no other reason than that they were Native. They weren't put into foster care, they were shipped off to residential schools where they were punished for speaking their own language. They were "required" to only speak english, convert to christianity, basically they were required to become "white".
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,369
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
June 12th, 2008, 07:39 PM
Quoting Ariadne
Wow! What propaganda have you been taking as gospel? Foster care and residential schools have nothing in common. Kids were taken - by force in some cases - away from parents who knew the "old ways" and made to accept a completely alien way of being. Beating the knowledge into these "heathens" wan't something those old nuns, or anyone else in positions of power were afraid of doing. Kids were bullied into submission for any reason - including sexual. Many of those schools were Church of England or United so Catholics weren't alone in their deeds. Seems to me you have residential school and reform school confused.
Are these the same old tired Catholic residential schools that we heard about before, or are there newly identified persons associated with the schools that are guilty of something? Is the fact that children were put in foster care a crime? If so, what conditions were they living in prior to being removed to foster care? If it's all about the spirituality of the first nation that these children lost, do we know that these values would have been learned had they not been removed? Should some of the blame be placed on the parents that were not providing safe, spiritually nurturing, and caring environments?
Are we to believe that children in first nation homes were being well fed, attending school on a daily basis, participating in extracurricular spiritual or music, sports, etc. activities, and still the government determined that they should be removed from their homes?
Are we to believe that children in first nation homes were being well fed, attending school on a daily basis, participating in extracurricular spiritual or music, sports, etc. activities, and still the government determined that they should be removed from their homes?
Genius
Posts: 768
June 12th, 2008, 07:48 PM
The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.
Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.
Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.
Quoting gerryh
I only know what I've seen, heard, and now with the casino, concluded.
You don't have a clue, do you?
The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.
Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.
Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.
Genius
Posts: 768
June 12th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Whatever the rules of the time were ... were the rules of the time. There was a time when children of another religion could have been eaten by lions, particularly if they had met the Romans, but that didn't happen. Children were provided 3 meals a day, roof over their head, education, medical care, vaccinations, and the basic needs of any child in Canada; a prosperous nation. Of course they had to speak English, as that was part of their education. New immigrants today are not allowed to speak foreign languages in class either. How is that a problem?
As for religious choices, that was the culture of Canada in the 1960s. So what. Even Japanese were expected to convert to Christianity. Guess what, todays politically correct open mindedness about religion ain't retroactive, or at least it shouldn't be.
What the heck is white? Being eductated? having medical care? having a roof over your head? working for a living? reaping what you sow or going hungry? not being allowed to smoke indoors? not building casinos in our backyards? not being free of cigarette taxes?
I mean really ... even first nation murderers are permitted their pow wow rather than face any kind of consequence or court of law - go, run in the field, find yourself, become a man - and then what, they're no longer murderers? Bull. First nations wanted autonomy, they got it and didn't get it right - no new cultural spiriuality. First nations want their own courts and got it, but did it help? Not yet.
Skip the words ... actions speak.
Quoting gerryh
So where is the documentation supporting the argument that children were removed from native indian homes only because they were from native indian homes. Were these children attending school on a daily basis, was the response that there were no schools in their neighbourhood? Taht would sound like an invitation to assimilate. Seriously, were children on reserves abiding by the rules of the country, or did they think they could go to school when they felt like it. Why didn't the children attend school? Were their moms not out of bed? When schools were built on the reserve, did they attend?
these kids were forcibly removed from there family's for no other reason than that they were Native. They weren't put into foster care, they were shipped off to residential schools where they were punished for speaking their own language. They were "required" to only speak english, convert to christianity, basically they were required to become "white".
Whatever the rules of the time were ... were the rules of the time. There was a time when children of another religion could have been eaten by lions, particularly if they had met the Romans, but that didn't happen. Children were provided 3 meals a day, roof over their head, education, medical care, vaccinations, and the basic needs of any child in Canada; a prosperous nation. Of course they had to speak English, as that was part of their education. New immigrants today are not allowed to speak foreign languages in class either. How is that a problem?
As for religious choices, that was the culture of Canada in the 1960s. So what. Even Japanese were expected to convert to Christianity. Guess what, todays politically correct open mindedness about religion ain't retroactive, or at least it shouldn't be.
What the heck is white? Being eductated? having medical care? having a roof over your head? working for a living? reaping what you sow or going hungry? not being allowed to smoke indoors? not building casinos in our backyards? not being free of cigarette taxes?
I mean really ... even first nation murderers are permitted their pow wow rather than face any kind of consequence or court of law - go, run in the field, find yourself, become a man - and then what, they're no longer murderers? Bull. First nations wanted autonomy, they got it and didn't get it right - no new cultural spiriuality. First nations want their own courts and got it, but did it help? Not yet.
Skip the words ... actions speak.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
June 12th, 2008, 08:09 PM
Only one thing to say....your a f*cking idiot!!!!!!!!
Quoting Ariadne
I only know what I've seen, heard, and now with the casino, concluded.
The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.
Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.
Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.
The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.
Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.
Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.
Only one thing to say....your a f*cking idiot!!!!!!!!
Genius
Posts: 768
June 12th, 2008, 08:20 PM
Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.
You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?
If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?
What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?
Quoting lone wolf
That propaganda of my teenage years just outside of Calgary, watching how the first nation managed their lives ... that's what I'm taking as gospel.
Wow! What propaganda have you been taking as gospel? Foster care and residential schools have nothing in common. Kids were taken - by force in some cases - away from parents who knew the "old ways" and made to accept a completely alien way of being. Beating the knowledge into these "heathens" wan't something those old nuns, or anyone else in positions of power were afraid of doing. Kids were bullied into submission for any reason - including sexual. Many of those schools were Church of England or United so Catholics weren't alone in their deeds. Seems to me you have residential school and reform school confused.
Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.
You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?
If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?
What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?
Genius
Posts: 768
June 12th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Quoting mabudon
I think it's kind of weird that the argument is always for spiritual/cultural preservation, but when it comes down to spending the money, it's on fast cars, alcohol, and now a casino to damage and destroy the facade and reputation of the Rocky Mountains between Calgary to Banff.
WOW I just don't know what to say to that
Like there were bars and casinos spotting the landscape in the 1st millennium or something- f-ing weird
Like there were bars and casinos spotting the landscape in the 1st millennium or something- f-ing weird
Genius
Posts: 768
June 12th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Quoting gerryh
I actually not a f-ing idiot. I am exceptionally well educated, and I speak my mind. I'm sorry that you are not able to view this topic from any perspective other than that of bleeding heart, but that's life, eh.
Only one thing to say....your a f*cking idiot!!!!!!!!
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,369
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
June 12th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Quoting Ariadne
Ger's right.... You really don't have a clue. Time did not start the day you graced Earth with your presence. Residential school is NOT private school. You're letting bigotry block you from the real world and seeing just as you want.
That propaganda of my teenage years just outside of Calgary, watching how the first nation managed their lives ... that's what I'm taking as gospel.
Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.
You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?
If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?
What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?
Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.
You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?
If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?
What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,369
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
June 12th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Start your education process here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...l-schools.html
Google has a whole wealth of enlightenment for you
Start your education process here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...l-schools.html
Google has a whole wealth of enlightenment for you
June 12th, 2008, 09:34 PM
Quoting Ariadne
You are proving HIGHLY uneducated on what exactly the residential school debacle is about. That you could ignore the current apologies by both Harper and Dion, for the actions of our governments in taking children away to essentially lock them up in residential schools, and demand 'proof', is evidence of that. This is not about the foster system. This is not about casinos. This is about the past.
I actually not a f-ing idiot. I am exceptionally well educated, and I speak my mind. I'm sorry that you are not able to view this topic from any perspective other than that of bleeding heart, but that's life, eh.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
June 12th, 2008, 10:23 PM
Well....your parents wasted their money. It should be "Actually, I am not a f-ing idiot".
As for the rest of the bullshyte that you have posted, do a search for Native Residential Schools in Canada. You will notice that you are completely wrong.
here's a few links to get you started:
http://archives.cbc.ca/society/education/topics/692/
http://www.albertasource.ca/treaty8/...l_schools.html
http://www.afn.ca/residentialschools/history.html
and by the way....read my sig...it apply's to you.
Quoting Ariadne
I actually not a f-ing idiot. I am exceptionally well educated, and I speak my mind. I'm sorry that you are not able to view this topic from any perspective other than that of bleeding heart, but that's life, eh.
Well....your parents wasted their money. It should be "Actually, I am not a f-ing idiot".
As for the rest of the bullshyte that you have posted, do a search for Native Residential Schools in Canada. You will notice that you are completely wrong.
here's a few links to get you started:
http://archives.cbc.ca/society/education/topics/692/
http://www.albertasource.ca/treaty8/...l_schools.html
http://www.afn.ca/residentialschools/history.html
and by the way....read my sig...it apply's to you.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,168
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
June 13th, 2008, 12:27 AM
of their homes, and forced into residential schools, it's got nothing to do with anything
that is happening today re: casinos etc.Many of these children were physically abused and/or sexually abused. The apology is for THEM, and I can't believe you and some others
actually seem to think that isn't right? Give me a break.
Much of the behavior which 'you' refer to built up over the years, (to a people who had
all of their freedom taken away, shoved onto reservations, told that their language
and native ways were now illega), has been brought on because of, how they have been
treated long ago.
It now will take many generations to repair that problem, that WE caused.
They should have been 'left' alone to live their lives as they wish, whatever it may
have been, it was none of 'our' business. We were the intruders. Who the hell did
they think they were to come into this country and start rounding up 'real canadians'
as though they were animals and start stuffing their way of life down their throats.
Quoting Ariadne
The 'apology' is for the treatment of 'young people' many years ago, who were dragged out
Do you think some of that money might be used to set up more casinos in Alberta where people can feed their addictions of gambling and smoking indoors while snubbing their noses at the law? Wouldn't that be grand! We could have our own little LV strip. Hey, maybe brothels can be built too.
ETA: and experience deep spiritual values too, at the casinos, with the smoking and gambling.
ETA: and experience deep spiritual values too, at the casinos, with the smoking and gambling.
of their homes, and forced into residential schools, it's got nothing to do with anything
that is happening today re: casinos etc.Many of these children were physically abused and/or sexually abused. The apology is for THEM, and I can't believe you and some others
actually seem to think that isn't right? Give me a break.
Much of the behavior which 'you' refer to built up over the years, (to a people who had
all of their freedom taken away, shoved onto reservations, told that their language
and native ways were now illega), has been brought on because of, how they have been
treated long ago.
It now will take many generations to repair that problem, that WE caused.
They should have been 'left' alone to live their lives as they wish, whatever it may
have been, it was none of 'our' business. We were the intruders. Who the hell did
they think they were to come into this country and start rounding up 'real canadians'
as though they were animals and start stuffing their way of life down their throats.
Genius
Posts: 768
June 13th, 2008, 12:33 AM
What is residential school if it is not a private school with room, board, education, medical care, and a simulated family? Is the difference that the caring, natural parents are not contributing to their children's education? I wonder. Most parents with children in private school contribute some way, if only to exemplify caring parents full of culture.
I don't have bigotry. I am a little tired of the spirituality line that is used to squeeze the government out of more sympathy money. First nations should stop pretending they want to celebrate spirituality only to turn around and build a casino that flips the bird at the law. Link me to something that first nations have done to celebrate their spirituality, and please don't show me a totem pole - those were so last century, like the victorian age. And please don't show me a museum - those were so government funded. And please don't show me a metis that thinks he deserves special privileges because he can be metis. That foot stomping while saying ay yay yay doesn't do much for me either ... in terms of a culture.
I can link you to the spending of first nation money to provide jobs for only a portion of their population, in their own smoking casino where girls wear meter long feathers on their heads. How's that for culture. You can enjoy more culture if you put your money into a machine for hours, hoping that you'll become a millionaire. Indeed, the first nations of alberta are selling dreams but ... wait a minute ... isn't that part of the first nation culture.
Quoting lone wolf
Exsqweeze me, I don't understand your remark about gracing the earth. Are you making a personal remark?
Ger's right.... You really don't have a clue. Time did not start the day you graced Earth with your presence. Residential school is NOT private school. You're letting bigotry block you from the real world and seeing just as you want.
What is residential school if it is not a private school with room, board, education, medical care, and a simulated family? Is the difference that the caring, natural parents are not contributing to their children's education? I wonder. Most parents with children in private school contribute some way, if only to exemplify caring parents full of culture.
I don't have bigotry. I am a little tired of the spirituality line that is used to squeeze the government out of more sympathy money. First nations should stop pretending they want to celebrate spirituality only to turn around and build a casino that flips the bird at the law. Link me to something that first nations have done to celebrate their spirituality, and please don't show me a totem pole - those were so last century, like the victorian age. And please don't show me a museum - those were so government funded. And please don't show me a metis that thinks he deserves special privileges because he can be metis. That foot stomping while saying ay yay yay doesn't do much for me either ... in terms of a culture.
I can link you to the spending of first nation money to provide jobs for only a portion of their population, in their own smoking casino where girls wear meter long feathers on their heads. How's that for culture. You can enjoy more culture if you put your money into a machine for hours, hoping that you'll become a millionaire. Indeed, the first nations of alberta are selling dreams but ... wait a minute ... isn't that part of the first nation culture.
Genius
Posts: 768
June 13th, 2008, 12:35 AM
Quoting lone wolf
Is there another link, other than the CBC, for objectivity purposes? I wouldn't want to only read a bleeding heart rendition of Canadian Politics.
Start your education process here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...l-schools.html
Google has a whole wealth of enlightenment for you
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...l-schools.html
Google has a whole wealth of enlightenment for you
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
June 13th, 2008, 12:44 AM
I supplied you with 3 f'n links moron...or do you need it read to you too? Too many big words for your pea brain?
Better yet....why don't you try something completely different, and research it yourself. You know...learn something.
Quoting Ariadne
Is there another link, other than the CBC, for objectivity purposes? I wouldn't want to only read a bleeding heart rendition of Canadian Politics.
I supplied you with 3 f'n links moron...or do you need it read to you too? Too many big words for your pea brain?
Better yet....why don't you try something completely different, and research it yourself. You know...learn something.
Genius
Posts: 768
June 13th, 2008, 12:44 AM
About the past ... and dwelling in the past ... most people that are currently dwelling in the past don't actually have their own stories, but rather they are now crying the blues for their parents. Their parents cried the blues and got buckets of money ... and now their children still don't have any idea about their culture, and apparently the last bucket of money is spent ... where does the buck stop? Maybe the generation that was already compensated for their hardship at the hands of the evil "white" people could leave a little thing called inheritance so the next generation would stop complaining.
Quoting karrie
Could you please provide a link that indicates that these children could have been better equipped for their futures, today, than to learn to speak English? Should they have not learned English? Can you provide a link demonstrating that the homes they were removed from were good homes, by 1960 and today standards - which are no different? Don't under-estimate decisions made in the past.
You are proving HIGHLY uneducated on what exactly the residential school debacle is about. That you could ignore the current apologies by both Harper and Dion, for the actions of our governments in taking children away to essentially lock them up in residential schools, and demand 'proof', is evidence of that. This is not about the foster system. This is not about casinos. This is about the past.
About the past ... and dwelling in the past ... most people that are currently dwelling in the past don't actually have their own stories, but rather they are now crying the blues for their parents. Their parents cried the blues and got buckets of money ... and now their children still don't have any idea about their culture, and apparently the last bucket of money is spent ... where does the buck stop? Maybe the generation that was already compensated for their hardship at the hands of the evil "white" people could leave a little thing called inheritance so the next generation would stop complaining.
