Bright Spark
Posts: 300 
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
April 26th, 2008, 05:42 AM
Racism, prejudice and discrimination are all alive and well right across Canada. You gotta get down to the grassroots to see it displayed at it's nastiest. I was onsite at Canada Post in Ottawa around the time of the Iraq invasion. There were a few Middle Eastern people working at the facility. A couple of white Canadian boys were yelling and screaming at them, telling them to get the hell out of this country, shouting the worst kind of obscenities, blaming them and their 'kind' for all of the troubles in the world. It was unsettling to witness this outright hatred for another human because of his background.
My favorite encounter with racism though was in Yellowknife and I was on the receiving end. As a white man in Yellowknife I always felt I was a guest in an aboriginal city. After two years of living there I'd become aquainted with many people from the aboriginal community. The Dene are some of the nicest people around. It was a hot summer day at Folk on the Rocks and I was standing there watching the entertainment on stage. My poor old balding head was burnt a deep red from the sun. This particular fellow of Dene descent walked by and said, 'Geez man look at your head. And you whities have the nerve to call us redmen". Now granted this is a very funny line, especially coming from an aboriginal. But I was more shocked than humoured. My comeback was hey man I didn't coin the term redmen. Just because some uneducated fools from our past thought it was cool to label the aboriginals with that name doesn't mean I do the same. Anyway, the chap was taken by surprise at my response. He expected me to laugh along with the joke but I saw it as a form of racism and reacted accordingly. He apologized for the comment, bought me a beer to show no hard feelings and went on his way.
Look, you have to face racism head on. No beating around the bush. Just grab it by the collars and give it a shake. Tell the idiot who makes a smartass comment to smarten up. Never respond to a racist remark with another racist remark. That only fans the flames and never solves the problem. Always counteract with a steady even voice and really get in there and humiliate the S.O.B. Make eye contact with them and let them know you mean business.
Racism, prejudice and discrimination are all alive and well right across Canada. You gotta get down to the grassroots to see it displayed at it's nastiest. I was onsite at Canada Post in Ottawa around the time of the Iraq invasion. There were a few Middle Eastern people working at the facility. A couple of white Canadian boys were yelling and screaming at them, telling them to get the hell out of this country, shouting the worst kind of obscenities, blaming them and their 'kind' for all of the troubles in the world. It was unsettling to witness this outright hatred for another human because of his background.
My favorite encounter with racism though was in Yellowknife and I was on the receiving end. As a white man in Yellowknife I always felt I was a guest in an aboriginal city. After two years of living there I'd become aquainted with many people from the aboriginal community. The Dene are some of the nicest people around. It was a hot summer day at Folk on the Rocks and I was standing there watching the entertainment on stage. My poor old balding head was burnt a deep red from the sun. This particular fellow of Dene descent walked by and said, 'Geez man look at your head. And you whities have the nerve to call us redmen". Now granted this is a very funny line, especially coming from an aboriginal. But I was more shocked than humoured. My comeback was hey man I didn't coin the term redmen. Just because some uneducated fools from our past thought it was cool to label the aboriginals with that name doesn't mean I do the same. Anyway, the chap was taken by surprise at my response. He expected me to laugh along with the joke but I saw it as a form of racism and reacted accordingly. He apologized for the comment, bought me a beer to show no hard feelings and went on his way.
Look, you have to face racism head on. No beating around the bush. Just grab it by the collars and give it a shake. Tell the idiot who makes a smartass comment to smarten up. Never respond to a racist remark with another racist remark. That only fans the flames and never solves the problem. Always counteract with a steady even voice and really get in there and humiliate the S.O.B. Make eye contact with them and let them know you mean business.
Bright Spark
Posts: 377
April 26th, 2008, 10:04 AM
No...that would be the one that has responsibility in his or her life (oh I don't know ...lets say a job) and not just a burden on society. And yes Karrie I'll keep to my original term of "most". Just so you all know I'm not an Albertan, I am also not from the east where many people do not see the real way of life for a native.......and I am sorry but it is not my fault for their life style. As I stated they have every opportunity to better it but choose not to. Natives ( I refrain from using the term First Nations) given their schooling opportunities ......should be running this country if they so chose to .....they do not.
It all comes down to responsibilities and unfortunately ..yes most...natives don't have any, and I blame the gov. for that. Karrie from the time you were born until now, if you were paid to exist, had a paycheque of sorts come to you continuously with out a fear that it would end .....where do you think you would be in "life" right now? On top of that the whole time you were growing up you were taught to hate the people that are providing you with that money, because they did this to you're people and they did that to you're people. Exactly where would you be ? Remember......a paycheque every two weeks for the rest of your life.
Maybe it is because I come from a community where there are 4 reserves around it and only about 5 to 10% of the natives work. The rest of them just hang around the community (town) mostly loitering, waiting in front of the post office waiting for their cheques, harassing the common public, asking if you would like to buy a joint, and continuously littering the streets where they sit and pass the day away, and where the average reserve home only lasts 13 years after which point it is basically unlivable. No worries....a new one will be built for you. If these people are so concerned about "their" land why are they the biggest litter's (sorry for spelling)I have ever seen. I own a business that is frequented by natives. Tell me why it is that after every visit, I must go out and pick up their litter and then walk 10 steps over and put it in the garbage can. Why is it that I do not have to do this with any one else? If these people care so much for the land that we stole, why do they treat it like sh#t?
Come to my town scottfree and I will show you the opposite. My town has a large native population and it is the caucasian type that get harassed. You can not go to the post office with out being asked for some money as they wait for their cheque to arrive. That part I can deal with. It is their reaction when you tell them ..no....that I can't deal with......Well f@#k you then you F*&k'n honkey. Come to my town and I will show you who is racist and who is not. So don't give me this crap about stereotyping and all the rest of it until you've lived where I do. Believe me, I have been in a lot of towns across western Canada and for the most part I see no difference. Once again it all comes down to responsibility......and yes Karrie...most of them do not have any.
A world with out responsibility is a terrible world.
The report by the way comes from Yellowknife
Should I educate you all on the Doukebour experience when I comes to residential schools. They too were taken from their families, they to were abused in these schools, they to were only allowed to touch their parents through a fence. No crying for money from them however, Like I mentioned in my original post, if these people think money will heal their troubled past, they live in a fantasy land and should be prepared for the outcome of what a sh%t load of money will do to someone that has no responsibility, and don't worry the gov. knows this.
I might also add the gov was doing nothing more than pumping up the economy by doing this. Ford Canada had one of their biggest quarters in X amount of years all due to this payout.
,
How about ....We the gov of Canada will give you this money......HOWEVER,.....a portion of your cherub will come off of it directly and go into social programs in YOUR community and will be used directly for the betterment of YOUR community. Something wrong with that? But I could here the cries from here.....Oh but that is MY money and it is owed to ME not my community. Well screw you then, if you are so greedy that you are not willing to improve your own community with the newly acquired money then why should someone else provide it for you.....Oh yeah ..I forgot we took their land.....Bullsh*t. I didn't take anything and I am tired of paying for it out of my HARD EARNED dollars. When will the responsibility of these peoples actions fall back on themselves.
Unfortunately you guys, this post is not about racism and it was not intended to be about racism, but it sure turned into that.
Quote:
(ie, the ____ who isn't a jerk is just another person, not a ____, and fades away in our minds).
No...that would be the one that has responsibility in his or her life (oh I don't know ...lets say a job) and not just a burden on society. And yes Karrie I'll keep to my original term of "most". Just so you all know I'm not an Albertan, I am also not from the east where many people do not see the real way of life for a native.......and I am sorry but it is not my fault for their life style. As I stated they have every opportunity to better it but choose not to. Natives ( I refrain from using the term First Nations) given their schooling opportunities ......should be running this country if they so chose to .....they do not.
It all comes down to responsibilities and unfortunately ..yes most...natives don't have any, and I blame the gov. for that. Karrie from the time you were born until now, if you were paid to exist, had a paycheque of sorts come to you continuously with out a fear that it would end .....where do you think you would be in "life" right now? On top of that the whole time you were growing up you were taught to hate the people that are providing you with that money, because they did this to you're people and they did that to you're people. Exactly where would you be ? Remember......a paycheque every two weeks for the rest of your life.
Maybe it is because I come from a community where there are 4 reserves around it and only about 5 to 10% of the natives work. The rest of them just hang around the community (town) mostly loitering, waiting in front of the post office waiting for their cheques, harassing the common public, asking if you would like to buy a joint, and continuously littering the streets where they sit and pass the day away, and where the average reserve home only lasts 13 years after which point it is basically unlivable. No worries....a new one will be built for you. If these people are so concerned about "their" land why are they the biggest litter's (sorry for spelling)I have ever seen. I own a business that is frequented by natives. Tell me why it is that after every visit, I must go out and pick up their litter and then walk 10 steps over and put it in the garbage can. Why is it that I do not have to do this with any one else? If these people care so much for the land that we stole, why do they treat it like sh#t?
Quote:
All I have is my experience with how my native friend was treated
Come to my town scottfree and I will show you the opposite. My town has a large native population and it is the caucasian type that get harassed. You can not go to the post office with out being asked for some money as they wait for their cheque to arrive. That part I can deal with. It is their reaction when you tell them ..no....that I can't deal with......Well f@#k you then you F*&k'n honkey. Come to my town and I will show you who is racist and who is not. So don't give me this crap about stereotyping and all the rest of it until you've lived where I do. Believe me, I have been in a lot of towns across western Canada and for the most part I see no difference. Once again it all comes down to responsibility......and yes Karrie...most of them do not have any.
A world with out responsibility is a terrible world.
The report by the way comes from Yellowknife
Quote:
The comment in red.....I'll educate you there:Quote
Should I educate you all on the Doukebour experience when I comes to residential schools. They too were taken from their families, they to were abused in these schools, they to were only allowed to touch their parents through a fence. No crying for money from them however, Like I mentioned in my original post, if these people think money will heal their troubled past, they live in a fantasy land and should be prepared for the outcome of what a sh%t load of money will do to someone that has no responsibility, and don't worry the gov. knows this.
I might also add the gov was doing nothing more than pumping up the economy by doing this. Ford Canada had one of their biggest quarters in X amount of years all due to this payout.
,
Quote:
so who are we to tell them how to spend it. I can't think of any solution that would be acceptable or appropriate.
How about ....We the gov of Canada will give you this money......HOWEVER,.....a portion of your cherub will come off of it directly and go into social programs in YOUR community and will be used directly for the betterment of YOUR community. Something wrong with that? But I could here the cries from here.....Oh but that is MY money and it is owed to ME not my community. Well screw you then, if you are so greedy that you are not willing to improve your own community with the newly acquired money then why should someone else provide it for you.....Oh yeah ..I forgot we took their land.....Bullsh*t. I didn't take anything and I am tired of paying for it out of my HARD EARNED dollars. When will the responsibility of these peoples actions fall back on themselves.
Unfortunately you guys, this post is not about racism and it was not intended to be about racism, but it sure turned into that.
April 26th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.
You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.
I'm with AB, what utter BS.
Quoting Zzarchov
Why not?
How about we give them the money then say tough ship if they wreck themselves from it?
Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.
You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.
I'm with AB, what utter BS.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604 
April 26th, 2008, 10:33 AM
We have to teach our children and we don't let them make decisions for themselves because they don't have the capacity and experience that making decisions demands. This is what we haven't done for natives in Canada. We haven't taught them that they're responsibile for their future. We haven't offered them a hand at preserving their culture and holind onto the richness of their heritage while we're more than willing it seems to placate the French Canadians and spend enormous amounts to achieve these outcomes for those people!
The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?
We have to teach our children and we don't let them make decisions for themselves because they don't have the capacity and experience that making decisions demands. This is what we haven't done for natives in Canada. We haven't taught them that they're responsibile for their future. We haven't offered them a hand at preserving their culture and holind onto the richness of their heritage while we're more than willing it seems to placate the French Canadians and spend enormous amounts to achieve these outcomes for those people!
The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 26th, 2008, 10:36 AM
I'll stand up for my race.
Having said that I am in full support of creating a native state within Canada and giving them the tools to start. Someone has to give these poor people a start and it might as well be the white man, the most successful species on the planet.
Quoting MikeyDB
Thats called shifting the blame.
We have to teach our children and we don't let them make decisions for themselves because they don't have the capacity and experience that making decisions demands. This is what we haven't done for natives in Canada. We haven't taught them that they're responsibile for their future. We haven't offered them a hand at preserving their culture and holind onto the richness of their heritage while we're more than willing it seems to placate the French Canadians and spend enormous amounts to achieve these outcomes for those people!
The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?
The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?
I'll stand up for my race.
Having said that I am in full support of creating a native state within Canada and giving them the tools to start. Someone has to give these poor people a start and it might as well be the white man, the most successful species on the planet.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
April 26th, 2008, 10:42 AM
Avro
When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?
Think again.
Avro
When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?
Think again.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 26th, 2008, 10:48 AM
Quoting MikeyDB
I think thats what I said, no one unfortunatley, for whatever reason focuses on the real problem. It's like the gun problem in Toronto, most on the left blame guns but guns don't shoot people all by themselves, it's shifting the blame to guns from why do black people like shooting each other. We can't say that because the race card comes out and you are a bigot unless you toe the lefty line on this matter.
Avro
When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?
Think again.
When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?
Think again.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
April 26th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Avro
There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!
The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!
Avro
There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!
The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,442
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 26th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Quoting CDNBear
Now just lay that pattern you've drawn over Israel.
Why not?
Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.
You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.
I'm with AB, what utter BS.
Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.
You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.
I'm with AB, what utter BS.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
April 26th, 2008, 12:59 PM
Avro
Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.
Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....
All a matter of degrees and perspectives.
Avro
Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.
Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....
All a matter of degrees and perspectives.
Genius
Posts: 965
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 26th, 2008, 01:33 PM
I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?
Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?
Quoting Albertabound
Come to my town scottfree and I will show you the opposite. My town has a large native population and it is the caucasian type that get harassed. You can not go to the post office with out being asked for some money as they wait for their cheque to arrive. That part I can deal with. It is their reaction when you tell them ..no....that I can't deal with......Well f@#k you then you F*&k'n honkey. Come to my town and I will show you who is racist and who is not. So don't give me this crap about stereotyping and all the rest of it until you've lived where I do. Believe me, I have been in a lot of towns across western Canada and for the most part I see no difference. Once again it all comes down to responsibility......and yes Karrie...most of them do not have any.
A world with out responsibility is a terrible world.
Sure and my cousins got the crap kicked out of them by a group of natives in Penticton where the police actually recommended to them to walk only in gangs for protection - so what?Come to my town scottfree and I will show you the opposite. My town has a large native population and it is the caucasian type that get harassed. You can not go to the post office with out being asked for some money as they wait for their cheque to arrive. That part I can deal with. It is their reaction when you tell them ..no....that I can't deal with......Well f@#k you then you F*&k'n honkey. Come to my town and I will show you who is racist and who is not. So don't give me this crap about stereotyping and all the rest of it until you've lived where I do. Believe me, I have been in a lot of towns across western Canada and for the most part I see no difference. Once again it all comes down to responsibility......and yes Karrie...most of them do not have any.
A world with out responsibility is a terrible world.
I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?
Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?
April 26th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Quoting Scott Free
You do the same Scott. I simply say that the assertion that 'the majority' are racist is wrong, and you seem to think that means I think racism doesn't exist. People make grand leaps all the time. I started a whole thread dedicated to my irritation over the issue entitled 'extrapolate my view'. Give a few little tidbits (ie, I'm Catholic, white, have been with the same man since I was 14, live in oil country) and watch how people can run with those little tidbits to extrapolate a view based on stereotyping. Because it seems that few people are willing to view the world of personal opinion in grey scale.
Sure and my cousins got the crap kicked out of them by a group of natives in Penticton where the police actually recommended to them to walk only in gangs for protection - so what?
I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?
Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?
I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?
Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 26th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Quoting MikeyDB
Did you ignore the fact of my previous post about guns? Speaking of weasel's, it is a perfect example of shifting blame and if you don't believe red herrings are used have fun in naive-land.
Avro
There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!
The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!
There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!
The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 26th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Quoting MikeyDB
Like I said the left shift the blame from ethnicity to handguns.....with this, nothing is solved.
Avro
Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.
Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....
All a matter of degrees and perspectives.
Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.
Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....
All a matter of degrees and perspectives.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,515
Location: Changchun, China
Location: Changchun, China
April 27th, 2008, 02:44 AM
My experience of minorites in Canada, based on the experiences of ONE family:
One ex-uncle in law's experiences in Victoria:
He'd responded to a job add one day, and they'd said the post was filled already. he was suspicious, so he asked a white friend to check, and sure enough, the job was still available. Later, this uncle got a job in the government and bought a nice car. Whenever he wore a baseball cap while driving, he could almost guarantee that a cop would pull him over. Regular occurrence.
An ex-brother-in-law's experience:
In Victoria:
He'd get stopped and questioned by the same cop over and over again. Finally one day when the cop stopped him, he'd addressed the cop by name and asked for the cops ID number. Only then did the cop stop harassing him.
In Montreal:
He was looking for an apartment, and they said none available. He knew one was available, so he sent me in to check. Sure enough, it was available, I've got white skin.
Another ex-brother-in-law in Kitchener-Waterloo:
He'd decided to start growing dreadlockes one day. A week later he was attracting cops like bears to honey!
My ex-wife in Victoria along with the first brother mentioned above:
They were accused by the refugee board of having lied about how long they'd been in Canada. Reason: Their English was too good to have been in Canada such a short time! They'd explained that Ethiopia has... just wait for this... quality schools! Their lawyer helped overturn it on the grounds that it was racist. So what di the boear do? They'd decided to cancel the whole process and start the whole process again from scratch! Another year of interviews because of a bunch of old biggots in government.
My personal experiences:
At a high school in Quebec, one of my colleagues, a geography teacher, casually referred to the First Nations as 'savages'. And two other retired teachers from the same school openly talked of Jews as being stingy and talking disparagingly of foreigners. One student said that I might have mulatto kids in the future.
Once I'd married, my wife had lost many of her black friends and even received anonymous threats to her safety!
Yes, and that's just in Canada, and the experiences of but one family. If this is the experience of but one family (and I can't imagine that it's this particular family would somehow just be so unlucky as to attract a disproportiaonal amount of racism), then I must assume that this experience is normal for black people across Canada. These were accumulated experiences of this one family in Victoria, Montreal, Kitchener-Waterloo, and La Malbaie-Pointe-aux-Pic, Charlevoix. I think that ought to be a fair representation of the Canadian mindset.
I hate to say it, but the vast majority of my compatriots are biggots, even among the educated classes. And it's reflected at the ballot box too.
My experience of minorites in Canada, based on the experiences of ONE family:
One ex-uncle in law's experiences in Victoria:
He'd responded to a job add one day, and they'd said the post was filled already. he was suspicious, so he asked a white friend to check, and sure enough, the job was still available. Later, this uncle got a job in the government and bought a nice car. Whenever he wore a baseball cap while driving, he could almost guarantee that a cop would pull him over. Regular occurrence.
An ex-brother-in-law's experience:
In Victoria:
He'd get stopped and questioned by the same cop over and over again. Finally one day when the cop stopped him, he'd addressed the cop by name and asked for the cops ID number. Only then did the cop stop harassing him.
In Montreal:
He was looking for an apartment, and they said none available. He knew one was available, so he sent me in to check. Sure enough, it was available, I've got white skin.
Another ex-brother-in-law in Kitchener-Waterloo:
He'd decided to start growing dreadlockes one day. A week later he was attracting cops like bears to honey!
My ex-wife in Victoria along with the first brother mentioned above:
They were accused by the refugee board of having lied about how long they'd been in Canada. Reason: Their English was too good to have been in Canada such a short time! They'd explained that Ethiopia has... just wait for this... quality schools! Their lawyer helped overturn it on the grounds that it was racist. So what di the boear do? They'd decided to cancel the whole process and start the whole process again from scratch! Another year of interviews because of a bunch of old biggots in government.
My personal experiences:
At a high school in Quebec, one of my colleagues, a geography teacher, casually referred to the First Nations as 'savages'. And two other retired teachers from the same school openly talked of Jews as being stingy and talking disparagingly of foreigners. One student said that I might have mulatto kids in the future.
Once I'd married, my wife had lost many of her black friends and even received anonymous threats to her safety!
Yes, and that's just in Canada, and the experiences of but one family. If this is the experience of but one family (and I can't imagine that it's this particular family would somehow just be so unlucky as to attract a disproportiaonal amount of racism), then I must assume that this experience is normal for black people across Canada. These were accumulated experiences of this one family in Victoria, Montreal, Kitchener-Waterloo, and La Malbaie-Pointe-aux-Pic, Charlevoix. I think that ought to be a fair representation of the Canadian mindset.
I hate to say it, but the vast majority of my compatriots are biggots, even among the educated classes. And it's reflected at the ballot box too.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,515
Location: Changchun, China
Location: Changchun, China
April 27th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Oh sorry, forgot.
When I was in the military, higher ranking officers were referred to as 'niggers' behind their backs all the time. One man had skinhead tattoos! Another wanted to join the freemen! Nigger, Paki, Chink, squaw, etc. were regular daily words!
And even in my own family, I could witness racism, sorry to say; Though I love my family none-the-less. I'm just saying, from my own personal experiences, it's reasonable to conclude that quite possible the vast majority of Canadians are still very racist.
Let's drop our national pride and just be honest.
Oh sorry, forgot.
When I was in the military, higher ranking officers were referred to as 'niggers' behind their backs all the time. One man had skinhead tattoos! Another wanted to join the freemen! Nigger, Paki, Chink, squaw, etc. were regular daily words!
And even in my own family, I could witness racism, sorry to say; Though I love my family none-the-less. I'm just saying, from my own personal experiences, it's reasonable to conclude that quite possible the vast majority of Canadians are still very racist.
Let's drop our national pride and just be honest.
