March 27th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Quoting MikeyDB
Some compelling thoughts Mikey.
Karrie
I fully support the premise, the principle behind "innocent until proven guilty", but accepting allegations as pre-amble to action based on fact and certainty aren't part of that principle or premise. It's like asking the question.." Have you stopped beating your wife yet..."
An assumption is made that because someone "suspects" that a situation or condition exists, that ipso facto...shazamm that MUST be what's going on behind the scenes.
When our perceptions are sculpted to reach particualar conclusion what is the value in the precept of "innocent until proven guilty"? We went to war in Afghanistan because we believed that our good neighbors wouldn't lie to us...when in fact there is plenty of evidence indicating that that's exactly what they did!
It was "allegged" that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and this allegation and supposition un-confirmed by fact and evidence has cost this world and will continue to cost this world for years to come...
Before something is internalized with the label of "alleged", the preparedeness of the person making the allegations to influence perception and belief must be scrutinized with the sharpest focus. Sharper in fact than any other because this person or these people wouldn't be sowing the seeds of desired conclusion uless there was a particular conclusion being sought.
Critical thought is victim to artifice and baloney and if you don't think it is why would advertising firms spend billions upon billions of dollars to influence how you thought about particualr products?
I fully support the premise, the principle behind "innocent until proven guilty", but accepting allegations as pre-amble to action based on fact and certainty aren't part of that principle or premise. It's like asking the question.." Have you stopped beating your wife yet..."
An assumption is made that because someone "suspects" that a situation or condition exists, that ipso facto...shazamm that MUST be what's going on behind the scenes.
When our perceptions are sculpted to reach particualar conclusion what is the value in the precept of "innocent until proven guilty"? We went to war in Afghanistan because we believed that our good neighbors wouldn't lie to us...when in fact there is plenty of evidence indicating that that's exactly what they did!
It was "allegged" that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and this allegation and supposition un-confirmed by fact and evidence has cost this world and will continue to cost this world for years to come...
Before something is internalized with the label of "alleged", the preparedeness of the person making the allegations to influence perception and belief must be scrutinized with the sharpest focus. Sharper in fact than any other because this person or these people wouldn't be sowing the seeds of desired conclusion uless there was a particular conclusion being sought.
Critical thought is victim to artifice and baloney and if you don't think it is why would advertising firms spend billions upon billions of dollars to influence how you thought about particualr products?
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,103 
April 1st, 2008, 07:51 AM
Walter
That's a wonderful piece of news. Since I'm not disposed to accept anything at face-value (unless and until I see it myself or gain alternately sourced information corroborating the assertion), I remain skeptical. (think AGW here..
)
Criteria for "armed conflict(s) is a moot point and particularly when you try to make a determination between say border conflicts in some provinces of Afghanistan or drug warlords fighting between themselves on a background of NATO participation in the mess America and the Taliban have created in that nation. Similarly, it would be just as correct to say that during WWI and WWII there was only one major conflict right? The details of millions of people being sacrificed to various causes happenign concurrently within the larger morass of these conflicts are subsumed and uncounted.
Nonetheless, any perspective that factually supports a reality that see's human conflict from Darfur to Indonesia from Iraq to Afghanistan from Kosovo to etc. etc. is good news.
Walter
That's a wonderful piece of news. Since I'm not disposed to accept anything at face-value (unless and until I see it myself or gain alternately sourced information corroborating the assertion), I remain skeptical. (think AGW here..
)Criteria for "armed conflict(s) is a moot point and particularly when you try to make a determination between say border conflicts in some provinces of Afghanistan or drug warlords fighting between themselves on a background of NATO participation in the mess America and the Taliban have created in that nation. Similarly, it would be just as correct to say that during WWI and WWII there was only one major conflict right? The details of millions of people being sacrificed to various causes happenign concurrently within the larger morass of these conflicts are subsumed and uncounted.
Nonetheless, any perspective that factually supports a reality that see's human conflict from Darfur to Indonesia from Iraq to Afghanistan from Kosovo to etc. etc. is good news.
Member
Posts: 101
May 3rd, 2008, 02:00 PM
I live 5 km from the terrorist training area near Washago, Ontario. All the locals talked about the guys running around in the bush and drove by on their way to work and on their way home. Comment --Just a bunch of idiots running around. Don't forget in such a small community the locals know the police. You want to damage--go blow Hydro towers in February or just loosen the bolts
I live 5 km from the terrorist training area near Washago, Ontario. All the locals talked about the guys running around in the bush and drove by on their way to work and on their way home. Comment --Just a bunch of idiots running around. Don't forget in such a small community the locals know the police. You want to damage--go blow Hydro towers in February or just loosen the bolts
Member
Posts: 101
May 3rd, 2008, 02:06 PM
By the way Karrie --I believe that these guys not proven guilty have spent two years in prison duh so much for til proven guilty - Who ordered the amonnium nitrate-? one of the three undercover boys that got $4.5million to do the publicity work --These guys didn't know that it was fake nitrate DUH--
By the way Karrie --I believe that these guys not proven guilty have spent two years in prison duh so much for til proven guilty - Who ordered the amonnium nitrate-? one of the three undercover boys that got $4.5million to do the publicity work --These guys didn't know that it was fake nitrate DUH--
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,575
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
May 3rd, 2008, 03:52 PM
With apologies to Mr. Churchill: English Common Law is the worst possible system of justice; except for all the others.
Quoting MikeyDB
Mikey, there is no such thing as perfection in this world....
Karrie
Do you think it's appropriate or prudent to put any faith in a system of justice that stands prepared to stand by while great injustice is perpetrated in the world? A system of justice that witnesses innocent people killed by federal police at our airports? A system of justice that only after twenty-two years begins to come to grips with Air India? A system of justice that is manipulated by lawyers and politicians to allow Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin and a huge number of Canadian politicians to slide...?
You keep the faith sister..
I have none.
Do you think it's appropriate or prudent to put any faith in a system of justice that stands prepared to stand by while great injustice is perpetrated in the world? A system of justice that witnesses innocent people killed by federal police at our airports? A system of justice that only after twenty-two years begins to come to grips with Air India? A system of justice that is manipulated by lawyers and politicians to allow Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin and a huge number of Canadian politicians to slide...?
You keep the faith sister..
I have none.
With apologies to Mr. Churchill: English Common Law is the worst possible system of justice; except for all the others.
