Bring Canada into Canadian Politics!!

[NorthrnMystique]

Here is the problem with Canadian politics.

Both major Canadian political parties possess positives and negatives, but I feel the negatives outdo the positives.

The Liberals rot this country from the inside by its pedantic sellout to the cult of multiculturalism---the effect.....Canada becomes too politically correct and any search for an all-encompassing, bicultural Canadian identity becomes tossed into the wind. You'd think history would be on the side for the legitimate cultural and national quest, but this is replaced by politcal sentiment, all of it appealing to the base sentiments of electioneering. At the worst, you become condemed for mearly speaking your mind in public and get labelled a racist. This is ridiculous. :angryfire:
The Conservatives sell this country out to the American's. They are a party concerned primarily with economics, and as such, possess a utilitarian view of how trade and economic barriers between Canada and the US should be erased. What they call ''harmony'' is actually a policy of self-imposed assimilation into the American empire....
When the economic levers go, so does the cultural will to remain distinct. They are ''Tories'' only in a joking sense. Toryism in Canada is certainly not welcome in the New Conservative Party.:angryfire:

Many Canadians take pride in not bothering to identify Canadian culture and identity. I simply cannot believe these people. They think that a void of nothing actually fills an empty space with concrete.
How ridiculous!
I bet they dont want to embark on a quest of national fulfullment and identity because they feel that by doing so, we become like American's: assimilationist
There is nothing negative with propping up and supporting the country that gave you birth and gives you hope and prosperity! That's not assimilationist, that's actually taking constructive steps to make sure the thing you love continues to survive. And for who? Your children and grandchildren!

Its time we start taking concrete steps to define and unite Canada's biculural and historical identity.
Come on Canada, lets get some balls!
You too ladies..
:canada:

 

[MikeyDB]

Hear Hear!

Let's start with making it the choice of people whether or not we're willing to pay the price to have every product description re-printed in "French".....

In Canmore or Prince Rupert I'm less than convinced that the re-printing of every soup-can label and commerical artifact is actually working to preserve the distinctiveness of the French-Canadian culture. What this manipulation has done is provide a constant reminder that 1/10 of all Canadian provinces dictates the rules!

Acknowledge "cultural distinctiveness"...sure and then we can have the immigrants to Canada change the dress uniform of the RCMP to express the "cultural distinctiveness" and "religious symbols" of people who came to this country to particpate in Canadian culture....

The wheels go round and round but the trains off the tracks!

 

[Zzarchov]

Actually, Im all for bilingualism.

If not for it, all your soup cans would be spelled in American English, or English/Chinese.

Its a great and unfair non-tarriff barrier to outside competition, keeping manufacturing in Canada.

PS) There are more than two major Canadian Political parties. If your going with only 2, remember it wasn't that long ago the Tories weren't even considered a party in Parliment.

 

[smac972]

Multiculturalism is what makes Canada Canada. there's nothing liberal about it. I don't patricularly prefer some lame homogonous, McDonalized society. I like going out for thai food, and hearing the owner speak thai in the background. I love the numerous parades and celebrations that make up everyday life in this rich vibrant society.

"White" Christmas indeed. How boring. And I love the french language. This type of xenophobia is often consumnated with racism. No accusations, but the logical follow up is "Remember when we all used to be white and everyone spoke english?"

Perhaps we should be all blonde haired and blue eyed at that.

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Giles, Unlock the Gateway and Prepare My Carriage for a Diatribe...:angryfire:

Really, so your definition of Canada is that it is a politically correct, institutionalised religion? Lol.....
I believe that Canada's foundation and yes....CULTURE.....are to be found in history. Ya know? That thing that records who we are, what we did, and who we hope to be?
Its not easy being poltically correct with such facts, but then again, you can always change history, blot out the parts you dont like, and misinterpret or play down key areas that arent up to snuff with your politically correct stuff.

And for the record...
I believe 110% in bilingualism...even in such non French areas as BC and Alberta. While practically it doesnt make any difference in those provinces, bilingualism conveys the Canadian ideal, namely, that we are a BICULTURAL AND BILINGUAL country.
Now, I'm all for eating Thai food and hearing Thai in the background too....
Only people like you....smac972 .....should stop conveying the message to immigrants that when their plane lands they can make this country...or parts of it...into whatever the hell they want it to be.:angryfire:
Canadians need to express more anger in this area and actually stand up for themselves once in a while. Why? Because we are the only bloody people in the world called ''Canadians'' who can actually call the shots in this area.
Now, let me also say that pluralism, and NOT multicultralism, is what makes Canada what it is. The difference?
Pluralism breeds a spirit of tolerance and compromise, while not necessarily eroding the central institutions and values of the society. CANADIAN PLURALISM is a distinct form of human tolerance not to be found anywhere else in the world. And it is tightly embeded in our history.
Multiculturalism, however, is POMO all the way to the bank. It says we cant retain a definition of who we are as a people, because that would be ''offensive'' or, as is commonly said also, ''unsophisticated''. But culture and nations need a blend of cosmospolitanism and parochialism in order to survive.
And yah, lessons are found in history, because the same principles repeat themselves through time. Learn from the past please, and dont consign it all to your "White Christmas Dustbin''.
Oh wait, I forgot smac972, Im a racist...or rather, not necessarily racist, but its ''logical followup''....
For all you people out there participating in an orgiastic feast of multiculturalist nirvana, what will Canada be if it is defined as being nothing more than a collection of parts?
No definition. Exactly. Im glad we got to the bottom of that.

Have a good time reading the chroniclof Canadian history. You will be like a little child on Christmas Day when, having opened a present, are filled with joy and excitment that this much anticipated present offers.:canada:
:canada:
:canada:

 

[MikeyDB]

I don't believe that one can simultaneously compel compliance to stratified and prejudiced language laws and on the other hand offer compromise and allowances for religious groups and other cultures who came to Canada knowing the customs and cultures that existed here before they came. I would tolerate and accept that if I were in someone else's country that there are conditions and limits on expression and culture as determined by the cultures and people who live in those countries. If I claimed some special "right" that has the effect of eroding the culture and traditions of that nation I'm visiting/living-in, I'd expect to be invited to leave.

Whether you're Canadian or "French-Canadian", you're Canadian. If you feel your "French-Canadianism" gives you the "right" to demand special privileges and declare language laws for the majority....please feel free to cede from my Canada and wing it on your own.

By permitting the political correctness of "cultural tolerance", we've established that the many will be subject to the demands and wishes of the few.....

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Harper has been talking a lot in the North these days about Canadian icons like the Maple Leaf and other things....dont know what...but he did mention them
Do you think this government is going to attempt to support and define a concrete Canadian identity through government programs and the like?

There already is a government department called Ministry of Canadian Identity.
Thoughts?

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Im a fan of simple questions.
Here goes.

WHATS THE GREATEST THING ABOUT THE CANADIAN IDENTITY?

Merci beaucoup

 

[Walter]

Multiculturalism is what makes Canada Canada. there's nothing liberal about it.

Multiculturalism cannot survive

By SALIM MANSUR

Future historians of the phenomenon known as "multiculturalism" that the West bone-headedly adopted towards the end of the second millennium will note the precise time when it was dealt a mortal wound.
It was at 8:46 on Tuesday morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when the first of the four commercial airliners hijacked by Islamist terrorists -- all of Arab origin -- struck the north tower of the World Trade Center in New York City.
Since that time other western cities -- Madrid, London, Amsterdam, Los Angeles, Toronto, Paris, Washington --have been targets of successful or failed attempts by Islamist terrorists determined to spread random death and destruction.
Those involved in the planning and execution of such terror are immigrants or born of immigrant parents belonging to the rapidly growing Muslim population in the West over the past 40 years. I happen to be a part of this wave of immigration to the West.
This western Muslim population, with its ethnic diversity reflecting the vastness of the Arab-Muslim world -- stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific and from central Asia to sub-Saharan Africa -- could have given some timely ballast to multiculturalism by unambiguously and unapologetically defending the West against barbarity.
MINIMUM OWED
This was the minimum Muslims in the West owed to the civilization where they sought refuge, and where they found security, prosperity, freedom and self-fulfillment of the like denied them in their native lands.
Instead Muslim-based organizations, at first having offered denial, followed with an unending volume of polemics condemning the West for past sins. By exploiting the West's post-colonial guilt they held it responsible for the conditions in the Arab-Muslim world that breeds the politics of terrorism.
These bald-faced polemics are sheer nonsense, and yet they resonated in much of the West that went limp with the anodyne of wishful multicultural thinking.
The idea that all cultures are equal in merit and deserving respect, an idea devoid of any historical perspective, could be seriously proposed and adopted only in western liberal democracies. And logically such an idea meant only one thing, the diminution of the West and its achievements in comparison to other cultures.
Multiculturalism institutionalized as a policy, run by self-perpetuating bureaucracies and sustained by entrepreneurs of a growing multicultural industry, became an easy ride for its proponents and clients.
Immigrants were not required to embrace the West's culture and complex history; and the West did not have to strain itself in instructing immigrants on the need or importance of embracing it, warts and all.
Multiculturalism worked so long as the illusion of cultural harmony could be maintained.
But once the sham of equality got exposed by the heat of Islamist violence -- once it became undeniable that a culture in which a woman, for instance, can assert her individual freedom without fear is not at par with a culture where a woman's worth is less than that of a man -- multiculturalism as an idea was dead.
Historians will note a period of confusion followed the death of multiculturalism before the West asserted its ideals of freedom and democracy, and moved on.

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Good critiquq of multiculturalism.
Can I ask what country you were born in?

 

[Praxius]

Here is the problem with Canadian politics.

Both major Canadian political parties possess positives and negatives, but I feel the negatives outdo the positives.

The Liberals rot this country from the inside by its pedantic sellout to the cult of multiculturalism---

Liberals? I think they're all kinda involved in this.

the effect.....Canada becomes too politically correct and any search for an all-encompassing, bicultural Canadian identity becomes tossed into the wind. You'd think history would be on the side for the legitimate cultural and national quest, but this is replaced by politcal sentiment, all of it appealing to the base sentiments of electioneering. At the worst, you become condemed for mearly speaking your mind in public and get labelled a racist. This is ridiculous. :angryfire:

Maybe they are the racists and are afraid to be pointed out.... classical witch hunt.

The Conservatives sell this country out to the American's. They are a party concerned primarily with economics, and as such, possess a utilitarian view of how trade and economic barriers between Canada and the US should be erased. What they call ''harmony'' is actually a policy of self-imposed assimilation into the American empire....
When the economic levers go, so does the cultural will to remain distinct. They are ''Tories'' only in a joking sense. Toryism in Canada is certainly not welcome in the New Conservative Party.:angryfire:

Yar... it's begining to sound like some people are looking for an alternative system now a days. Hmmmm.....

Many Canadians take pride in not bothering to identify Canadian culture and identity. I simply cannot believe these people. They think that a void of nothing actually fills an empty space with concrete.
How ridiculous!

Identity has nothing to do with how the government is being corrupt bags of chat noir. We Canadians do have an identity, but it isn't the same as the "Hey I'm American, We're Rich, We're Great, Look at Us!" identity. We don't normally shout from the roof tops for all to take pot shots at us, we just utter it under our breaths. When WWI and II came around, the World knew who we were, and we were one of the world's largest militaries during those times. We will be again.

During WWI:

"....in the aftermath of the Battle of the Somme, the Canadian Corps developed a reputation as shock troops which were feared by the Germans. The Canadian army even had its own nick-name les durs à cuire (hard to cook; kill) meaning the Canadians were very hard to demoralize and defeat."

Although our history and herritage isn't that known around the world, that is irrelevent. We've never been a country that shot off or tried to be the centre of attention anymore then the next. We always knew what we were and what we could do when the time comes, and I believe we still are that way.

The main problem right now, which is a double edge sword at the moment, is that since Bush got into power (Yes I am aware we've been getting screwed by the US long before him) the US has been testing the waters of their own propaganda and fear mongering.... much more then ever before. I am seriously believing that he was directly involved in everything that has occured since he came to power. I won't elaborate any further at this time as it'll derail.

The main problem is that now the Harper goons are seeing just how effective the Bush admin. pulled it off (To a manner in which it still boggles the mind on how moronic it was, yet it worked *smacks head*) and now Harper is trying to do the same thing. The Liberals will do it too. Honestly, you have the Republicans and the Democrats, the Conservatives and the Liberals... both the good guy bad guy cops.... both on the same team, playing out their little soap operas for all of us on the tele.... and it seems as though most of us will just suck up anything they do and shrug it off.

Think about it... when you talk to someone from the US about Bush and how much he screwed them over, most will agree, and be pretty pissed about the situation.... but what do they do? Nothing... shrug their shoulders and say "Well another year or so and we can vote him out" Wow.... new face, same game.

Then come these elections. Even if Bush doesn't call Martial Law before it's completed and his arse is booted to the curb, it's all the show that we see. Wow... Obama or Clinton for the big major change!? Who would have thunk it? Bush pretty well exposed their entire scam to the entire world since he got into power, so now they finally pull out the double whammy wild card of a half black male vs. a white female who is married to a former president that nobody seemed to be able to have much beef with, besides the beef that got the hummer.

So now everybody is all hyped up for "Change" and "Hope" one last ditch effort to suck the public back into their hands before they finally fence everyone in and control it all.

Oh, but Canada isn't much better. What do we do? Well..... we just shrug our shoulders too and just say "well we'll get them in the next election" and then what happens?

The Liberals are somehow back into power to shaft us once again. Bravo.

I bet they dont want to embark on a quest of national fulfullment and identity because they feel that by doing so, we become like American's: assimilationist
There is nothing negative with propping up and supporting the country that gave you birth and gives you hope and prosperity! That's not assimilationist, that's actually taking constructive steps to make sure the thing you love continues to survive. And for who? Your children and grandchildren!

Ah, but the bigger issue is that both the governments are like one big branch of the four parties in power of each country..... and they chuck us a bone here and there to make us feel we're different, on both sides of the border. They'll throw a few commercials on like "Through The Air, Across the Ocean..... THE FIRST TIME EVAR!"

*Twirls finger* whoopie friggin do!

Its time we start taking concrete steps to define and unite Canada's biculural and historical identity.
Come on Canada, lets get some balls!
You too ladies..:canada:

Instead of preaching about the problem, what do you propose we do about it?

Now that's the head scratcher.

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Praxius.
What do we do?
1) Read our own history
2) Stop thinking a Canadian is interchangeable with an American. thats a lot of crap!
3) Flush out American media and cultural influence
4) Abolish the official policy of multiculturalism
5) Begin a nation wide debate composed of all people in every province on the issue of Canadian identity.....values, customs, hopes, dreams, etc.

I'll be back with more..

 

[Walter]

Let the dismantling begin

By SALIM MANSUR

In writing about the need to dismantle multiculturalism, the advice of Sophocles from the fifth century B.C. comes to mind.
The Athenian playwright and author of the tragedy Oedipus the King counselled, "One must wait until the evening to see how splendid the day has been."
It is with the evening of multiculturalism at hand that we can discern how utterly flawed is the liberal notion proclaiming equality of all cultures at the expense of individual freedom, which has guided governments in western liberal democracies for some time.
Those who engineered the idea of multiculturalism into liberal policy belonged to a generation in the West who took freedom for granted.
This generation inherited freedom -- with the ground laid for the greatest expansion of wealth in all of human history -- without breaking a sweat.
Consequently, they never understood fully what freedom means for those who yearn for it in its absence, and those called upon to sacrifice all that is most precious in its defence.
For this generation freedom as inheritance amounted to a value or basket of goods of no greater merit than some other value to be sought. And protecting it at best became a burden to be met reluctantly, even grudgingly, unlike the grit shown by their parents and grandparents in defeating the fascist ideology of their time.
It was the idea of equality that took hold of this generation's thinking and out of it was hatched multiculturalism.
The best and brightest of this generation went forth into the world to study other cultures and like Mark Twain's "innocents abroad," returned to instruct the less cosmopolitan of their compatriots. The lessons included the goodness to be found in every culture meant the culture which devised man's walk on the moon had much to learn about communal living from the clan solidarity of peasants in the Mekong Delta or the husbandry of the camel-herding Bedouins of the Arabian desert.
It is when people are confronted with crisis of some existential nature that the mettle of the ideas and values by which they live gets tested.
For the generation that invested in multiculturalism as a political ideal, the test came with the Islamists unleashing their cult of death ideology against the West.
For the multiculturalists the dilemma posed by terrorist assaults questions fighting Islamists instead of appeasing them through accommodation. That question arises since all cultures are equal according to their ideology and, moreover, their ideal instructs them there is nothing specific and precious about the West to begin with, thus no sacrifice is meaningful in its defence.
The logic of multiculturalism goes against the thought of Canadian soldiers waging war against the Taliban in Afghanistan when multiculturalists would accommodate Taliban values in Canada.
SHARIA LAW
It is such thinking that led the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, in recently addressing the Royal Courts of Justice, to commend "public or legal recognition" of Islamic laws (sharia) in England while ignoring Muslims seeking freedom from sharia.
In the archbishop's world the 18th century Scottish philosopher David Hume's warning, "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once" raises little concern.
However, only when liberty is at stake and people are prepared to defend it, are false ideologies such as multiculturalism exposed as sham requiring their quick internment for freedom's survival.

 

[Coastal_chaos]

Great post, especially the part about rascism. I have certain opinions about oriental immigration in Canada, which make people assume I am rascist towards the eastern cultures. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. I simply think that in the near future our whole culture will be gobbled up by the east and the western coast such as BC will become host to new Hong Kongs and Tokyos.

Call me uneducated or backwards or whatever but I for one don't want to see my school with a 75% asian population (Not now obviously I mean in the future) currentlyu it seems to be hovering around 25% percent.

No disrespect to any ethinticity.

 

[MikeyDB]

Walter

Nice that you can read!

Where is this guy Mansur from? Would it be fair to suggest that the mongrel societies of Canada and the United States began with Dutch, British, German, French, Swedish, etc.etc. etc....?

"Multiculturalism" is politial mouthwash that allows politicians to divert funding for soccer teams away from social agencies...as performed by Dalton (When my lips are moving I'm lying) McGuinty....and permits the traditions and heritage of the RCMP to be ignored in the name of cultivating the Sikh vote in an election....

The "multiculturalism" that sees native Canadians treated as second class citizens isn't a monument to the notion of multiculturalism so much as it is a monument to the hypocrisy of North American WHITE governments.

 

[Niflmir]

Praxius.
What do we do?
1) Read our own history
2) Stop thinking a Canadian is interchangeable with an American. thats a lot of crap!
3) Flush out American media and cultural influence
4) Abolish the official policy of multiculturalism
5) Begin a nation wide debate composed of all people in every province on the issue of Canadian identity.....values, customs, hopes, dreams, etc.

I'll be back with more..

About #1, which three aboriginal groups are mentioned in the constitution? This is a question which is typically asked on the citizenship test, yet most natural born citizens would not know. History isn't really culture, per se.

About #2, there is about as much difference between a Prussian and a Bavarian as there is between an American and a Canadian, but most people would just call those cultures: German.

About #3, exposure to our neighbours is part of our culture. Unless we want to be isolationists, which most of us don't.

About #4, I have absolutely no idea what you are suggesting. Abolish immigration? Abolish accepting other cultures? Make sure that Italians eat Big Macs when they come to Canada instead of tortelli di zucca? Force people to convert to Catholicism before they can enter the country? Or maintain all the same policies but drop the rhetoric?

Finally #5, culture isn't something which is debated. Culture is something which is. What we need to do is stop trying to control the destiny of our culture, lest it go the way of Latin and dies.

What do you propose? Outlaw slang, new food, foreign languages, alternate religions? How and why do you want to keep Canadians from defining this country by defining themselves?

Just let it be, when you try to pin down a culture and stop its evolution, you kill it. Don't kill Canada.

 

[NorthrnMystique]

Its people like you Niflmir that destroy Canada,
About #1: Who Cares
About #2: You are a very blind person. Prussians and Bavarians? Dude....you wanna use examples like that, at least know WTF you are talking about. Prussia was arch Protestant and militaristic....Bavaria ultra Catholic and quasi Mediterranean oriented...anyone who has met two Germans from the North and South will know the diffs automatically. Dont use this as an example to erase the Canadian identity.
I would go so far as to call you a self-hating Canadian on the grounds you used.
About #3: Do you want exposure or prostitution with our neighbours. You sir/maam are on the extreme end of xenophobia....you think a nation should open all its doors and flood gates in the name of tolerance and cultural enrichment....only when you are asked to define real Canadian values you hide under the Bush or scream from the roof top your ignorance....which is as bright as a polluted Seoul afternoon.
About #4: Dude....you put words in my mouth....I said ''ABOLISH MULTICULTURALISM"....you know, that thing that is a pure government policy and is the die hard religion of people like you. Theres a diff between abolishing immigration....which I am against....and abolishing multiculturalism, which is just good common sense. Perhaps you arent aware of the fact that Canada is essentially a European derived country and that its principles and identity speak very loudly of this fact. Yo call that racist Im sure. Okay, you call a whole continent a group of racists, yet decry its use when applied to yourself....You are your own worst enemy.....and in so doing forget where Canada bloody came from. Its no crime to protect what gave you life and understanding.
About #5: This was by far your stupidest claim yet. You say that we should stop trying to define our culture or otherwise it will go the way of dead cultures? You utter FOOL! How can something even begin to disappear before it has even been defined. You would call this a crime. How will future generations of Canadians have any hint of who they are unless someone tells them. And I aint talkin about elementary school sex ed.

Sir, you are a product of xenophobia in reverse. I want Canada to have a shape and character...which it does...but people like you spit on it.

Oh, by the way dude....people like you are the Canadian jokes of bar tables and other social outlets around the world. They just cant believe that a country as great as Canada would give birht to twits like you who want to destory their own coutnry from the inside.

You speak of cutural evolution....how about the execution of free will over the course of events...