Chretien: Canada in tough spot over Kosovo

February 22nd, 2008, 04:07 PM

Chretien: Canada in tough spot over Kosovo


Never at a loss for words, former prime minister Jean Chretien says that Canada is in a "delicate" spot over the decision whether to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence.

"Canada has to be careful because people want to separate from Canada," Chretien told reporters from Ottawa's Rideau Hall on Friday.
He said because of Canada's Clarity Act, which sets rules for legal separation from the country, the government should be careful of setting a dangerous precedent by recognizing Kosovo's unilateral separation from Serbia.
The U.S., U.K., Germany and France are among more than a dozen nations that have recognized Kosovo's independence. Canada has not yet taken a position.

Chretien noted that both the U.K. and France have their own problems with segments of their populations wishing to separate. Scotland and Wales in the U.K. have long had separatist parties and France has had issues with its Mediterranean island of Corsica.
"But I'm not the one who decides for the government," Chretien said. "I'm not the Monday morning quarterback."

Full story here:
http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/Top..._kosovo_0802

In your opinion, does he have a valid point? Obviously, he is referring to Quebec's separation wishes.

February 22nd, 2008, 04:22 PM

And the man is still a complete ass. Wow, who knew.

February 22nd, 2008, 04:27 PM

Shall we start digging around in Quebec for the mass graves? Quebec has as valid a right to separate as any province ... but to comare it with Kosovo is to demean the deaths of hundreds.

Woof!

February 22nd, 2008, 07:40 PM

If by ass you mean right then I agree.

If we recognise Kosovo we could be seen as hypocrits with regards to Quebec.

February 22nd, 2008, 07:52 PM

Of course. As Wolf pointed out, absolutely the same thing they are. You and Chretien have a lot in common.

February 22nd, 2008, 07:55 PM

So what to do you think CDNBear? Should Canada recognize Kosovo or not?

February 22nd, 2008, 07:57 PM

Nope, but not for the reasons you may think.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:09 PM

Yup...nope........ you have suprisingly little to say Bear....... very unusual........



I agree with Chretien.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:24 PM

Does it really matter what I have to say Gh?
You shouldn't. The whole issue is moot. Kosovo's actions are illegal under International Law, the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Final Accords and UN resolution 1244, which ended the bombing of Serbia and reaffirmed her sovereignty over Kosovo.

Not at you Gh, but it's funny how the 'get your head out of the sand' crowd has swallowed the western MSM and NATO propaganda over the war in the Balkans.

It's even further hilarious how they seem to tout International Law and Treaties and pacts and Accords when it suits them, though they use them out of context and erroneously.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:29 PM

How exactly are the two issues the same, aside from being about groups wanting to leave? Was Kosovo given a referendum on the issue? Has Quebec fought wars over it?

I'm honestly curious here as to how what's happened in Canada is the same as Kosovo.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:32 PM


Ok...... maybe we should have stuck with "yup"..."nope"......... lol



Of course it matters what you have to say...... even when I disagree...cause if you didn't say it...I couldn't disagree with it....and we wouldn't have the chance to call each other names.


unfortunatley...or fortunatley.....we don't disagree on this one.....at least not the outcome anyways.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:33 PM

I do, too! It's a dangerous game, like domino. Or.... what's good for the goose is good for the gander!
If Quebec separated, Alberta might follow, especially now with all that oil. Chopping us into pieces we will become less powerful. Foreign elements will get a foothold. That aspect probably does not apply to Serbia, but for us it could spell the end of a great Nation.

"...We once stood on guard for Thee!"

February 22nd, 2008, 08:34 PM

And sir, I believe the outcome will make the last dance, look like a walk in the garden. This will come to a violent end.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:54 PM

It isn't, but I suspect that you thoroughly understand that regardless,

The area in question doesn't measure its history in the hundreds of years as we do in the west here. It measures them in the thousands.

Compound that with western meddling and the pathetic necessity of the west to appease the Muslims, the propaganda machine that went into over drive during the invasion of Serbia and subsequent conflict.

Acknowledging Kosovo's independance, is just another mistake.

February 22nd, 2008, 08:59 PM

Bear, never assume I thoroughly understand the history of any world conflict. Not to try to put myself down, but, of my 28 years, most were spent growing up, partying, dating, marrying, and giving birth to my children. My involvement in world politics is relatively new. I haven't been in a position to ask these sorts of questions of people without it ending up a heated real life argument, and I avoid those like the plague.

I personally don't understand, given the history of conflict, why anyone would expect them to remain under Serbia. How much can you and your spouse beat on one another before it's a wise idea for all involved to make a clean break and hopefully end the violence?

February 22nd, 2008, 10:01 PM

Ok...

But what does Serbia think? Have you seen the news?

What conflict?

We created the conflict. The Nazi's created the conflict...and I can keep going backwards in time and example outside influences. None of which remove the guilt from the indigenous peoples, for their actions. But none the less.

Let's us, you and I peaceably examine the genocide...2000 confirmed(Last time I actually dug), found in mass graves. The rest, in supposed super secret mass graves after being dug up...ya...ok.

Now, lets take a walk back a couple years, back to when the Nazi's were in love with and clung to the Muslims...1.8 million non Muslim Serbs, murdered.

So what was that about genocide?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe there are other mass graves, I do fully believe that the Serbs acted like animals. But lets be realistic. Lets be open and honest here.

No one is free of bloody hands.

Least of all the Muslims that now have the world holding their hand.

I see this igniting more violence, not appeasing it.

February 22nd, 2008, 10:38 PM

This is for you, Bear, since you mentioned the Nazis. I went on the web to search whether true or not, what I found is this... kind of shocking article by a Jewish professor:

Believe It or Not - the "Liberal" Jews Really Did This

Wastelands-the Historical Truth is the translation of a book published in 1989. This book claims that the Jews are guilty of the Holocaust. This book also tells the reader that the claim that 6 million Jews were murdered by the European Nazis is an exaggeration. This book also denounces as a Jewish plot the effort by Jews and others to prevent the election of the Nazi Kurt Waldheim as Secretary General of the United Nations and President of Austria.
According to this book, called in its original language Bespu’ca---povjesne zbiljnostli, Israel is a Nazi state practicing Judeo-Nazism (pp.160-161). We are further informed by the author that the Jewish G’d is a god of hatred, not of love (pp. 172-173); that the worst murder camp of World War II at Jasenovac was really a nice place allowing its inmates to roam freely without and that the management of that camp “was in the hands of the Jews” (pp. 316-319). Innumerable other lies and anti-Jewish diatribes are contained in that volume.
Now, you would say that the author must have been anathema to the Jewish community, like Farrakhan or the old German Jew killers of the ‘30’s and the 40’s. Not so. Believe it or not, the author of this book was invited tothe opening ceremonies of theU.S. National Holocaust Museum in April of 1993. Those who invited this hater were the members of the Jewish management of that museum. The author of this anti-Jewish diatribe was Franjo Tudjman, then the president of Croatia, a former province of Yugoslavia.
You will of course recall that the United States and our allies, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, bombed Serbia in March and April of 1999. This was done on behalf of the Muslims living in Kosovo, also a province of the former Yugoslavia. Many Jews, and in particular Elie Wiesel, urged President Clinton to fight for the rights of the Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims against Serbia. That being the case, we are entitled to ask “who are the Kosovo and Bosnian Muslims and why are our American Jewish leaders so anxious to defend them?”
Here is the record. In 1943, when Germany had occupied all of Yugoslavia, the Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims formed an SS division of Storm Troopers called the SS Handschar Division. The men in that division had been recruited by the erstwhile “Mufti” of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a Palestinian cleric who was living in Berlin and was sent to Bosnia by Hitler to bring about the organization of these troops whose assignment was to kill Jews in occupied Greece.
Many of these Muslim Nazi soldiers had read the Arab edition of Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler. That book had been translated into Arabic by Nassiri Nasser, the brother of the late president of Egypt. In addition to their crimes against the Greek Jews the Muslim division was also responsible for the massacre at Koritska Jama gorge in Bosnia in 1941 where thousands of Jews were slaughtered.
Altogether, about 20,000 Kosovo and Bosnian Muslims fought in the Nazi “Sword” division, murdering Jews in Russia and everywhere they were sent. One of the most notorious leaders of these killers was Alija Izetbegovic, lately the president of Bosnia. Believe it or not, it is for these people that the Jews of America raised the roof in Washington and insisted that we defend them against the Serbs.
In 1941, when Germany had occupied all of Yugoslavia, the Muslim Albanians and brethren of the Kosovo Muslims were recruited as police units to serve in Kosovo, which then had a population of 820,000 Serbs and thousands of Jews and Roma.
Miranda Vickers, in her book Between Serb and Albanian: A History of Kosovo, describes how these Albanian Muslims were involved in forced deportations of Jews and Serbs; how 10,000 Serbs and Jews were burnt out of their homes in scores of villages; how the Albanian 21st Waffen SS division entered Hitler’s army and at once murdered 210 Jews in Kosovo.
Believe it or not, the American Jewish “liberals” stood up for these Albanian killers in 1999 and demanded that Serbia be bombed on their behalf.
Now, the Serbs were victimized as much by the Nazi invaders of their country as were the Jews. There is no evidence that the Jews of Serbia were ever molested, let alone murdered, until the Germans and their Croat allies did so in the Jasenovac camp beginning in 1941. In fact, Serbia became a safe haven for allied airmen shot down over occuped Yugoslavia during the second world war, in that many a Serb family hid such allied aviators from the Nazi occupiers. Likewise, Serbs went out of their way to help their Jewish compatriots during the Nazi horrors.
Read about this. Read any book on the Holocaust. Read the book by Gilbert, by Davidowicz or the one by Levin. Talk to people who were in Yugoslavia at that time and they will confirm what I have shown here.
Yet, believe it or not, we Jews defend our murderers against our friends. Is it any wonder that Arafat, the nephew of the notorious Nazi Husseini who spent the second world war in Berlin with Hitler, view Jews as patsies and fools who will give away half of Israel and all of Jerusalem to make “peace” with those determined to destroy us?
All of these stupid Jewish policies may be lumped together under the rubric “liberal.” We Jews are endlessly portraying ourselves as “liberals” because we “bleed” for everyone but ourselves. We play the “liberal”, willing to go the ends of the earth for other people's causes but not our own.
Originally, the word “liberal” referred to someone who loves liberty and believes that everyone, including Jews, should live in freedom. Evidently, that word has now come to mean a “knee jerk” liberal who cries for the poor Nazis whose demands must be met in Israel and in Kosovo, lest their mission in life, the slaughter of Jews, not be adequately achieved. Appeasement of the haters does no good. It only leads to more demands, more surrenders and more bloodshed. Jewish blood, of course.
We Jews need to live in the real world. We need to remember the words of Hillel, remember Jabotinsky and remember the Holocaust. Then we must act according to Jewish tradition and in the light of our right to survive. To achieve this it is vital that we substitute action for all that talk. Bonis exemplis, magis impetramus, quam bonis verbis.
Shalom u’vracha.

What do you make out of it, Bear, or anyone else?
He talks about "liberal" Jews... that can't be the ones now terrorizing the Palestinians?

February 22nd, 2008, 10:47 PM

Other then sorta touching history with a stick, it was a joke right Doc?

Quote:

He talks about "liberal" Jews... that can't be the ones now terrorizing the Palestinians?

Ya that's it.