Council Member
Posts: 1,706 
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 22nd, 2008, 10:53 PM
Still trying to find ways to slip in your bigoted and racist views eh loonie?
Quoting dancing-loon
This is for you, Bear, since you mentioned the Nazis. I went on the web to search whether true or not, what I found is this... kind of shocking article by a Jewish professor:
What do you make out of it, Bear, or anyone else?
He talks about "liberal" Jews... that can't be the ones now terrorizing the Palestinians?
What do you make out of it, Bear, or anyone else?
He talks about "liberal" Jews... that can't be the ones now terrorizing the Palestinians?
Still trying to find ways to slip in your bigoted and racist views eh loonie?
Council Member
Posts: 2,307
February 22nd, 2008, 11:37 PM
Quoting gerryh
Who is here racist? You perhaps, having something against me?
Still trying to find ways to slip in your bigoted and racist views eh loonie?
Council Member
Posts: 1,706
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 22nd, 2008, 11:45 PM
Quoting dancing-loon
Ya...... you're a racist....your comments concerning Jews are racist....your comments about First Nations are racist....you're a fricken racist.
Who is here racist? You perhaps, having something against me?
Council Member
Posts: 2,307
February 23rd, 2008, 10:52 AM
Kosovo Serbs hold protest march in divided town
Up to 2,000 Serbs marched through the Kosovo town of Kosovka Mitrovica in a sixth day of protest against Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence.
KFOR soldiers from France stop a Kosovo Serb crossing through their checkpoint on the main road connecting Belgrade with the ethnically divided town of Kosovska Mitrovica, near the village of Jarinje, Kosovo, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky)
They chanted "Kosovo is Serbia!" and "Russia, Vladimir Putin" as U.N. police in riot gear kept them from entering the Albanian side of the divided city.
The protesters acknowledged Putin because he has be one of the strongest opponents of the independence gambit, one supported by the United States and most of the European Union.
Serbs comprise about 10 per cent of Kosovo's two million residents. Virtually everyone else are ethnic Albanians who are moderate Muslims.
Saturday's protest saw some firecrackers tossed, but on Friday, demonstrators tossed stones and glass bottles at UN forces.
In Canada, Serbian Canadians plan to hold demonstrations later today against Kosovo's declaration.
On Thursday, angry Serbs in Belgrade attacked the U.S. embassy, tossing Molotov cocktails and breaking windows.
........
Canada doesn't appear to be a target because Canada hasn't recognized Kosovo's declaration of independence. "The Canadian embassy is functioning quite normally," he said.
http://tinyurl.com/ypl9rk
Europe's "hot spot" .... will it ever normalize itself? I feel doubtful.
Kosovo Serbs hold protest march in divided town
Up to 2,000 Serbs marched through the Kosovo town of Kosovka Mitrovica in a sixth day of protest against Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence.
CTV.ca News Staff
KFOR soldiers from France stop a Kosovo Serb crossing through their checkpoint on the main road connecting Belgrade with the ethnically divided town of Kosovska Mitrovica, near the village of Jarinje, Kosovo, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky)
They chanted "Kosovo is Serbia!" and "Russia, Vladimir Putin" as U.N. police in riot gear kept them from entering the Albanian side of the divided city.
The protesters acknowledged Putin because he has be one of the strongest opponents of the independence gambit, one supported by the United States and most of the European Union.
Serbs comprise about 10 per cent of Kosovo's two million residents. Virtually everyone else are ethnic Albanians who are moderate Muslims.
Saturday's protest saw some firecrackers tossed, but on Friday, demonstrators tossed stones and glass bottles at UN forces.
In Canada, Serbian Canadians plan to hold demonstrations later today against Kosovo's declaration.
On Thursday, angry Serbs in Belgrade attacked the U.S. embassy, tossing Molotov cocktails and breaking windows.
........
Canada doesn't appear to be a target because Canada hasn't recognized Kosovo's declaration of independence. "The Canadian embassy is functioning quite normally," he said.
http://tinyurl.com/ypl9rk
Europe's "hot spot" .... will it ever normalize itself? I feel doubtful.
Council Member
Posts: 2,307
February 23rd, 2008, 11:34 AM
US starts evacuation from Serbia
One person died and more than 100 were injured in the riots
The US embassy in Serbia has begun pulling out non-essential staff following the storming of the building on Thursday. Around 1,000 protesters set fire to the embassy in Belgrade in protest at Washington's support for Kosovo's declaration of independence.
A convoy of around 40 cars carrying American staff and family members has now left Belgrade.
.........
Several other embassies of countries seen by the protesters as supporting Kosovo were also targeted, but they have not announced plans to withdraw staff.
.......
The minister responsible for Kosovo, Slobodan Samardzic, said the US was to blame for the violence. "The root of violence is the violation of international law", he said.
"The Serbian government will continue to call on the US to take responsibility for violating international law and taking away a piece of territory from Serbia".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260613.stm
I think removing themselves for awhile is a smart decision by the US. It will remove some oil from the fire.
So far, Canada hasn't made up its mind about recognizing Kosovo's independence. I always beg for Canada to stay neutral when it has no business taking sides in other peoples' disputes.
US starts evacuation from Serbia
One person died and more than 100 were injured in the riots
The US embassy in Serbia has begun pulling out non-essential staff following the storming of the building on Thursday. Around 1,000 protesters set fire to the embassy in Belgrade in protest at Washington's support for Kosovo's declaration of independence.
A convoy of around 40 cars carrying American staff and family members has now left Belgrade.
.........
Several other embassies of countries seen by the protesters as supporting Kosovo were also targeted, but they have not announced plans to withdraw staff.
.......
The minister responsible for Kosovo, Slobodan Samardzic, said the US was to blame for the violence. "The root of violence is the violation of international law", he said.
"The Serbian government will continue to call on the US to take responsibility for violating international law and taking away a piece of territory from Serbia".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260613.stm
I think removing themselves for awhile is a smart decision by the US. It will remove some oil from the fire.
So far, Canada hasn't made up its mind about recognizing Kosovo's independence. I always beg for Canada to stay neutral when it has no business taking sides in other peoples' disputes.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,319
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
February 23rd, 2008, 11:53 AM
But
The difference between Quebec, Scottland, Wales, and the sort..... is that we're not killing each other.
Sure back in the day we all did. And sure we still have people flinging insults and poutine at one another, but we're not out there genociding the place. Don't forget it was only a few years ago they were at each other's throats. They apparently still are. Seperate the two and leave it at that.
The moment we start seeing Quebec hanging the entire Maple Leaf's team on a bridge after a game, then maybe we should think about it.
But then again, breaking international law isn't all that cool..... sure it seems to be the trend these days, but I think it's starting to go a little too far.
Quoting dancing-loon
Well yes he is, he has a good point, and he kinda brought up a point I didn't think of.
....Chretien noted that both the U.K. and France have their own problems with segments of their populations wishing to separate. Scotland and Wales in the U.K. have long had separatist parties and France has had issues with its Mediterranean island of Corsica.
....In your opinion, does he have a valid point? Obviously, he is referring to Quebec's separation wishes.
....In your opinion, does he have a valid point? Obviously, he is referring to Quebec's separation wishes.
But
The difference between Quebec, Scottland, Wales, and the sort..... is that we're not killing each other.
Sure back in the day we all did. And sure we still have people flinging insults and poutine at one another, but we're not out there genociding the place. Don't forget it was only a few years ago they were at each other's throats. They apparently still are. Seperate the two and leave it at that.
The moment we start seeing Quebec hanging the entire Maple Leaf's team on a bridge after a game, then maybe we should think about it.
But then again, breaking international law isn't all that cool..... sure it seems to be the trend these days, but I think it's starting to go a little too far.
Newbie
Posts: 25
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
February 23rd, 2008, 03:21 PM
I think Kosovo is for the people of Kosovo to decide. If the population there wants to be their own country then they do not need permission by anyone to do so. How can any people be denied the right to self-government and sovereignty? Also international law is meaningless. The same law handed over Czechs to the Nazis and carved up the Middle East to imperial powers. Some group behind an open or closed door have no say in the affairs of people or their aspirations.
As for the references being made between Canada's regions pushing for their own independence the fact is if any region had a fair referendum on the question and the majority approved self-determination there is nothing Canada can do about it. If people are free to enter into the Dominion then they should be free to leave. There is no law saying that a province has to remain forever a province. I think the formula adopted would be similar to what Newfoundland did to join Canada. They had a vote and finally 52.3% voted for joining confederation then negotiations took place after. Although it wasn't the fairest vote since the peoples choices were limited. But debts, resource management, and all those items were then negotiated on before joining the confederation and all those things would be negotiated again on the departure I imagine as well. So I'm not sure why people even make an issue of the “threat of separatism” when it really is no issue at all. If people feel they can achieve a higher standard of living or more opportunities outside of confederation then all the power to them.
I think Kosovo is for the people of Kosovo to decide. If the population there wants to be their own country then they do not need permission by anyone to do so. How can any people be denied the right to self-government and sovereignty? Also international law is meaningless. The same law handed over Czechs to the Nazis and carved up the Middle East to imperial powers. Some group behind an open or closed door have no say in the affairs of people or their aspirations.
As for the references being made between Canada's regions pushing for their own independence the fact is if any region had a fair referendum on the question and the majority approved self-determination there is nothing Canada can do about it. If people are free to enter into the Dominion then they should be free to leave. There is no law saying that a province has to remain forever a province. I think the formula adopted would be similar to what Newfoundland did to join Canada. They had a vote and finally 52.3% voted for joining confederation then negotiations took place after. Although it wasn't the fairest vote since the peoples choices were limited. But debts, resource management, and all those items were then negotiated on before joining the confederation and all those things would be negotiated again on the departure I imagine as well. So I'm not sure why people even make an issue of the “threat of separatism” when it really is no issue at all. If people feel they can achieve a higher standard of living or more opportunities outside of confederation then all the power to them.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
February 24th, 2008, 02:47 AM
The Right Honourable Jean Chrétien P.C., C.C., Q.C., the 20th Prime Minister of Canada, is quite correct in that Canada is in a “delicate” position. However, notwithstanding whatever similarities, if any, that there are between the Province of Québec and the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metahija, the fact remains that Kosovo has not declared independence through a constitutional channel and therefore such a declaration is null and void. Any such valid declaration must have the constitutional weight of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia.
The Right Honourable Jean Chrétien P.C., C.C., Q.C., the 20th Prime Minister of Canada, is quite correct in that Canada is in a “delicate” position. However, notwithstanding whatever similarities, if any, that there are between the Province of Québec and the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metahija, the fact remains that Kosovo has not declared independence through a constitutional channel and therefore such a declaration is null and void. Any such valid declaration must have the constitutional weight of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
February 24th, 2008, 09:08 AM
It's amusing to read how one nations government "ought" to abide by U.N. resolutions and behave as part of the community of nations while invading Iraq and continued denial by the government of Israel are deemed perfectly OK!
I suppose since this is an 'opinion' board, and the right to hold opinions that differ from the "norm" is acceptable and protected under the Canadian Charter the effort to reduce intelligent conversations to name-calling and lower the tone to schoolyard rhetoric is just part of the mix. It does get tiresome though....
Jean Chretien kept Canada out of the illegal American invaison of Iraq, unfortunately the financial umbilical cords that bind the Canadian economy to the American economy wouldn't stand the strain of telling the Bush War Machine to screw-off when it came to Afghanistan. Stephen Harper (a Bush family idiot child) thinks (yes I'm being kind..) that appeasing the military industrial complex of the Bush War Machine will strengthen Canada's position economically....
Kosovo recieved recognition from France Italy and the United States because they're populations have been conditioned to accept that "appeasement" is the modern substitute for diplomacy and negotiated settlement....
While it's just Oh So insightful to rage against government and people who disagree with your opinion in childish terms that leave little doubt regarding the depth of understanding involved, Chretien is absolutely right. Yes the government structures are different and no nation has ever ceded from its original mother-state without violence, it is the United Staes Britain and others who coerced land from Palestine and under force of arms pressured the world to accept the creation and maintenance of the state of Israel.
Double standards abound!
It's amusing to read how one nations government "ought" to abide by U.N. resolutions and behave as part of the community of nations while invading Iraq and continued denial by the government of Israel are deemed perfectly OK!
I suppose since this is an 'opinion' board, and the right to hold opinions that differ from the "norm" is acceptable and protected under the Canadian Charter the effort to reduce intelligent conversations to name-calling and lower the tone to schoolyard rhetoric is just part of the mix. It does get tiresome though....
Jean Chretien kept Canada out of the illegal American invaison of Iraq, unfortunately the financial umbilical cords that bind the Canadian economy to the American economy wouldn't stand the strain of telling the Bush War Machine to screw-off when it came to Afghanistan. Stephen Harper (a Bush family idiot child) thinks (yes I'm being kind..) that appeasing the military industrial complex of the Bush War Machine will strengthen Canada's position economically....
Kosovo recieved recognition from France Italy and the United States because they're populations have been conditioned to accept that "appeasement" is the modern substitute for diplomacy and negotiated settlement....
While it's just Oh So insightful to rage against government and people who disagree with your opinion in childish terms that leave little doubt regarding the depth of understanding involved, Chretien is absolutely right. Yes the government structures are different and no nation has ever ceded from its original mother-state without violence, it is the United Staes Britain and others who coerced land from Palestine and under force of arms pressured the world to accept the creation and maintenance of the state of Israel.
Double standards abound!
February 24th, 2008, 10:00 AM
The resolutions set against Israel, if followed, would undoubtedly result in widespread death and destruction of Israel.
Quoting MikeyDB
But of course!
It's amusing to read how one nations government "ought" to abide by U.N. resolutions and behave as part of the community of nations while invading Iraq and continued denial by the government of Israel are deemed perfectly OK!
The resolutions set against Israel, if followed, would undoubtedly result in widespread death and destruction of Israel.
Quote:
But you never cease to dive down to that level Mikey. With great ease and lack of thought.
I suppose since this is an 'opinion' board, and the right to hold opinions that differ from the "norm" is acceptable and protected under the Canadian Charter the effort to reduce intelligent conversations to name-calling and lower the tone to schoolyard rhetoric is just part of the mix. It does get tiresome though....
Quote:
Perhaps, but that's your opinion, the facts of the matter are easier to apply. NATO. End of story.
Jean Chretien kept Canada out of the illegal American invaison of Iraq, unfortunately the financial umbilical cords that bind the Canadian economy to the American economy wouldn't stand the strain of telling the Bush War Machine to screw-off when it came to Afghanistan. Stephen Harper (a Bush family idiot child) thinks (yes I'm being kind..) that appeasing the military industrial complex of the Bush War Machine will strengthen Canada's position economically....
Quote:
Sounds like a fair assessment.
Kosovo recieved recognition from France Italy and the United States because they're populations have been conditioned to accept that "appeasement" is the modern substitute for diplomacy and negotiated settlement....
Quote:
Wow, you admit that??? Excellent, so how about you actually stop the childish name calling, since you are one of the only two I've seen do it in the past few days.
While it's just Oh So insightful to rage against government and people who disagree with your opinion in childish terms that leave little doubt regarding the depth of understanding involved,
Quote:
No he isn't, it was a cheap political move to take a shot at the CPoC. Nothing more, nothing less.
Chretien is absolutely right.
Quote:
True, but the passive aggressive nature of Kosovo's Muslims, the propaganda purchased by the UN, MSM and NATO on the state of affairs that that precipitated this situation, have placed a greater weight on the international community to move cautiously. Which they didn't. They dove head long into 'appeasement'.
Yes the government structures are different and no nation has ever ceded from its original mother-state without violence, it is the United States Britain and others who coerced land from Palestine and under force of arms pressured the world to accept the creation and maintenance of the state of Israel.
Quote:
Sometimes double standards have a place. Or should 12 year olds be allowed to drive to?
Double standards abound!
House Member
Posts: 3,383
February 24th, 2008, 11:56 AM
1.) The people declare Sovereignty
2.) Serbia had no right to include Kosovo as part of it.
Technically Kosovo is still part of Yugoslavia. In 2006 Serbia itself declared independance from Yugoslavia.
This is akin to Southern Quebec declaring Independance and then claiming northern Quebec has no right to either counter-declare independance or simply remain part of Canada.
If Serbia wanted to keep Kosovo maybe it shouldn't have declared independance.
Every single current Nation of Former Yugoslavia has declared independance unilaterally. Including Serbia.
Quoting CDNBear
I would have to declare international law to be absurd.
Does it really matter what I have to say Gh?
You shouldn't. The whole issue is moot. Kosovo's actions are illegal under International Law, the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Final Accords and UN resolution 1244, which ended the bombing of Serbia and reaffirmed her sovereignty over Kosovo.
Not at you Gh, but it's funny how the 'get your head out of the sand' crowd has swallowed the western MSM and NATO propaganda over the war in the Balkans.
It's even further hilarious how they seem to tout International Law and Treaties and pacts and Accords when it suits them, though they use them out of context and erroneously.
You shouldn't. The whole issue is moot. Kosovo's actions are illegal under International Law, the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Final Accords and UN resolution 1244, which ended the bombing of Serbia and reaffirmed her sovereignty over Kosovo.
Not at you Gh, but it's funny how the 'get your head out of the sand' crowd has swallowed the western MSM and NATO propaganda over the war in the Balkans.
It's even further hilarious how they seem to tout International Law and Treaties and pacts and Accords when it suits them, though they use them out of context and erroneously.
1.) The people declare Sovereignty
2.) Serbia had no right to include Kosovo as part of it.
Technically Kosovo is still part of Yugoslavia. In 2006 Serbia itself declared independance from Yugoslavia.
This is akin to Southern Quebec declaring Independance and then claiming northern Quebec has no right to either counter-declare independance or simply remain part of Canada.
If Serbia wanted to keep Kosovo maybe it shouldn't have declared independance.
Every single current Nation of Former Yugoslavia has declared independance unilaterally. Including Serbia.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
February 24th, 2008, 12:57 PM
The absurdity of international law is that it omits to recognize the greater reality of the human condition. It's always been the wealthy and powerful who have waged war on the masses. It's always been the biggest military and the government held in the grip of the "business community" that's cultivated an opportunity for war.
International "law" predicated on the premise that member nations would behave according to that "law" has been seen to be a mere pipedream... and will remain a pipedream so long as the wealthy and powerful regard their interests ahead of anyone and everyone else.
That's the sorry state of the human condition. Fervent patriotism (usually underwritten by greed and/or "religion" are the instruments of humankinds failures not the "solution" as any unbiased examination of both "religion" and "government" reveals.
We'll continue to play these games about wealth and invisible creator beings until the planet becomes un-ihabitable......
The absurdity of international law is that it omits to recognize the greater reality of the human condition. It's always been the wealthy and powerful who have waged war on the masses. It's always been the biggest military and the government held in the grip of the "business community" that's cultivated an opportunity for war.
International "law" predicated on the premise that member nations would behave according to that "law" has been seen to be a mere pipedream... and will remain a pipedream so long as the wealthy and powerful regard their interests ahead of anyone and everyone else.
That's the sorry state of the human condition. Fervent patriotism (usually underwritten by greed and/or "religion" are the instruments of humankinds failures not the "solution" as any unbiased examination of both "religion" and "government" reveals.
We'll continue to play these games about wealth and invisible creator beings until the planet becomes un-ihabitable......
February 24th, 2008, 02:47 PM
It doesn't change the facts none the less.
Quoting Zzarchov
Looking at it from that perspective, I could only agree.
I would have to declare international law to be absurd.
1.) The people declare Sovereignty
2.) Serbia had no right to include Kosovo as part of it.
Technically Kosovo is still part of Yugoslavia. In 2006 Serbia itself declared independance from Yugoslavia.
This is akin to Southern Quebec declaring Independance and then claiming northern Quebec has no right to either counter-declare independance or simply remain part of Canada.
If Serbia wanted to keep Kosovo maybe it shouldn't have declared independance.
Every single current Nation of Former Yugoslavia has declared independance unilaterally. Including Serbia.
1.) The people declare Sovereignty
2.) Serbia had no right to include Kosovo as part of it.
Technically Kosovo is still part of Yugoslavia. In 2006 Serbia itself declared independance from Yugoslavia.
This is akin to Southern Quebec declaring Independance and then claiming northern Quebec has no right to either counter-declare independance or simply remain part of Canada.
If Serbia wanted to keep Kosovo maybe it shouldn't have declared independance.
Every single current Nation of Former Yugoslavia has declared independance unilaterally. Including Serbia.
It doesn't change the facts none the less.
Quoting MikeyDB
Hopefully you will have moved on or shed your earthly coil before then...at the very least, flipped the record.
We'll continue to play these games about wealth and invisible creator beings until the planet becomes un-ihabitable......
No party affiliation
Posts: 2,014
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
February 24th, 2008, 02:55 PM
It's quite simple really.
Quoting karrie
If Quebec were to declare unilateral seperation from Canada we would be hypocits if we didn't recognise it as we are about to do with Kosovo. The clarity act makes it even more sticky by setting out rules for seperation and future referendums.
How exactly are the two issues the same, aside from being about groups wanting to leave? Was Kosovo given a referendum on the issue? Has Quebec fought wars over it?
I'm honestly curious here as to how what's happened in Canada is the same as Kosovo.
I'm honestly curious here as to how what's happened in Canada is the same as Kosovo.
It's quite simple really.
February 24th, 2008, 03:27 PM
How far do we go to appease Kebec?
What you are supporting is divide over 'ethnic' lines, not over freedom. And please don't tell me that the Muslim Albanians are oppressed, subjugated, or any other crap like that.
They are far from free of any guilt.
Quoting Avro
How far do we go Avro...how far do we bend to appease the Muslims?
If Quebec were to declare unilateral seperation from Canada we would be hypocits if we didn't recognise it as we are about to do with Kosovo. The clarity act makes it even more sticky by setting out rules for seperation and future referendums.
It's quite simple really.
It's quite simple really.
How far do we go to appease Kebec?
What you are supporting is divide over 'ethnic' lines, not over freedom. And please don't tell me that the Muslim Albanians are oppressed, subjugated, or any other crap like that.
They are far from free of any guilt.
