Conservatives Fire Head Of Nuclear Safety

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
The Conservative government has once again proven that it's time for them to leave.

I just read on http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=c70b1f37-7efe-46c1-a165-8b0efd4dfcaa&k=22708

that the president of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission Linda Keen for doing her job.
But they decided to keep the MP in charge of Natural Resources Minister Gary Lunn who made this problem get to this level.
Chalk River nuclear plant that produces isotopes for medical diagnostics is a ticking time bomb and the Conservative government is willing to let it blow with no concern for the for the safety for Canadians.
We have to remember that there have been two earthquakes near the plant in the past month
If you look at the past Conservative/Reform government of Mike Harris he always like to cut back on safety inspectors like food where the citizens always suffered.
They appointed Michael Binder a Conservative yes man as interim president.
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
1,535
41
48
Calgary, Alberta
Oh, for crying out loud! What in the world is Harper thinking? That this p!ssing contest is going to make his party look good? Linda Keen now looks like the heroic victim of a bunch of ignorant bullies, and that she was the only one concerned for our safety.

This is a stupid, stupid move by Harper and Lunn.

Pangloss
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
The Conservative government has once again proven that it's time for them to leave.

I just read on http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=c70b1f37-7efe-46c1-a165-8b0efd4dfcaa&k=22708

that the president of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission Linda Keen for doing her job.
But they decided to keep the MP in charge of Natural Resources Minister Gary Lunn who made this problem get to this level.
Chalk River nuclear plant that produces isotopes for medical diagnostics is a ticking time bomb and the Conservative government is willing to let it blow with no concern for the for the safety for Canadians.
We have to remember that there have been two earthquakes near the plant in the past month
If you look at the past Conservative/Reform government of Mike Harris he always like to cut back on safety inspectors like food where the citizens always suffered.
They appointed Michael Binder a Conservative yes man as interim president.

This is idiotic.

Yes, Linda Keen was doing her job when she insisted the double-safety feature be installed......she was NOT doing her job when she forced the reactor to shut down........

The problem was the lack of a double-insurance safety feature in case of an earthquake or other problem that might have caused a melt down...........so, for this to have been a problem, there would have had to have been some unforeseen incident, then that incident would have to cause major damage to the reactor, THEN the first line pump would have had to fail..............NOT BLOODY LIKELY!

BUT, with the reactor shut down, tens of thousands waited for treatment and/or diagnosis.....not MAYBE, not IF, not after triple disasters, not at some point in the future, but NOW, FOR SURE!

It was a VERY easily decided case of "the lesser of two evils".

OF COURSE the reactor had to be re-started, shutting it down was incompetent, and dear Ms. Keen should have STFU if she wanted to keep her job.

The Liberals, of course, would have let people diem FOR SURE just to maintain their level of political correctness in the public eye, they are completely risk-adverse, at least in the political sense.

Useless scum.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Lunn told in September about Chalk River mess Updated Thu. Jan. 10 2008 11:15 AM ET
David Akin, CTV News
OTTAWA -- The federal auditor general informed Natural Resources Minister Gary Lunn last September that the Chalk River Nuclear Laboratory housing the world's most important medical isotope producer was a mess needing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding to eliminate safety and security deficiencies.
Lunn's response, his office said today, was to order, on Nov. 29, a broad review of the structure of AECL, setting the stage for the possible privatization of all or part of the business.
The audit, quietly released last night on Atomic Energy of Canada Limited's website, four months after it was given to Lunn, concluded that AECL faces a "significant deficiency" that has put its ability to deliver on its corporate mandate at risk.
AECL was forced to shut down its reactor at the Chalk River, Ont. site in early December after it could not satisfy the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (CNSC) that it was operating according to the safety standards of its licence.
Because the Chalk River facility is the world's leading producer of medical isotopes used to diagnose cancer and other diseases, the reactor's shutdown provoked a public health crisis.
Parliament was forced to pass emergency legislation overriding the safety concerns of the CNSC, Canada's nuclear safety watchdog, allowing AECL to fire up the reactor and resume the production of medical isotopes.
Pointing fingers
Lunn has blamed CNSC president Linda Keen for the shutdown, threatening in a letter written Dec. 27 to fire her unless she could give him a good reason why she ought to remain on the job.
This week, Keen fired back, saying that, as she was the head of a quasi-judicial independent body, Lunn had overstepped his authority with his threats.
That prompted Lunn's political opponents to call for his resignation.
The auditor general's report is sure to add more fuel to the political fire. The audit is only now coming to light after Liberal MP Omar Alghabra pressed Auditor General Sheila Fraser late last year to review AECL's operations after the Chalk River reactor was shut down.
But a spokesperson for Lunn's office says the Liberals had nothing to do with its release. AECL did not want to release the audit until its new board of directors had reviewed the document. Coincidentally, that board met for the first time yesterday afternoon in Mississauga, Ont.
Yesterday, the Liberals distributed the reply they received from Fraser. She said that her office had just finished an audit or special examination of AECL's books and had, in fact, presented that audit to AECL's old board of directors on Sept. 5.
"Although there is no statutory requirement that federal Crown corporations [like AECL] make special examination reports public, there is an expectation that they do so," Fraser wrote in a late-December letter to Alghabra. "To the best of our knowledge, AECL has yet to release its special examination report."
On Dec. 14, Michael Burns resigned as chairman and chief executive officer of AECL and was replaced by two individuals: Glenna Carr became the chair and Hugh MacDiarmid became CEO. Those appointments were made by Prime Minister Harper.
'Significant deficiency'
Though AECL's books are audited and published by the Crown corporation annually, the auditor general does a "special examination" of Crown corporations at least once every five years. The auditor general's office completed its review of AECL in March and presented it in September.
"We would like to draw your attention to a significant deficiency related to the unresolved strategic challenges that the Corporation faces," Assistant Auditor General Nancy Cheng writes in her cover letter to AECL's board of directors. "It is our view that this report contains information that should be brought to the attention of the Minister of Natural Resources. Accordingly, following consultation with the Board, we will be forwarding a copy of the report to the Minister."
Cheng notes that her office did not do a technical assessment of the safety and security of AECL's nuclear research facilities as that is the responsibility of the CNSC.
But, the auditor did have this to say:
"Our examination found a significant deficiency with respect to the risk that the Corporation may be unable to resolve three strategic challenges that, in particular, entail long-term funding requirements and that together would impair its ability to achieve its mandate.
"These challenges are the completion and licensing of the Dedicated Isotope Facility, the development and licensability of the Advanced CANDU Reactor in time for the market requirement, and the replacement of aging facilities at Chalk River Laboratories."
The reactor that produces medical isotopes at Chalk River, known as the National Research Universal or NRU reactor, went into service in 1957 based on designs that were first drawn up in 1949.
The auditor general told AECL's board -- and Lunn -- that the aging infrastructure at the facility was an increasing risk to public safety. "Limited funds threaten AECL's ability to manage the Canadian nuclear platform responsively and cost-effectively and to properly safeguard its assets. In our 2002 special examination, we reported that until AECL could resolve how to fund the replacement of the aging buildings, the risks to public safety were likely to increase."
In its report, the auditor general notes that AECL has spent a pittance of what was required to maintain the safety and security of its facilities.
"AECL has made limited investments in its infrastructure in recent years. Over the last five years, it obtained a total of $34 million in incremental funding from the federal government to deal with urgent heath, safety, security, and environmental requirements at the Chalk River site.
"AECL has identified a need to increase its operating and capital investment by some $600 million in the next 5 years (about $850 million in the next 10 years) to address fire and building code deficiencies as well as licensing, health, safety, and security issues at the Chalk River Laboratories site. We understand that these amounts will not be included in AECL's operating and capital budgets until the government provides direction on future funding."
Seems to me that there is more to this than meets the eye.
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
476
11
18
25
Zurich
Keen tried to cover her butt at the expense of human lives. Harper isn't having it. We'll save the lives and pass from double to triple safety ASAP.

The lesser of evils, as Colpy put it is accurate. Some people just don't have the unblinded moral intellect, and Keen is one of them.
 

TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
135
10
18
Keen was replaced with Michael Binder, long time Tory connected federal civil servant. The vacancy on the AECL Board following the resignation of a Tory connected board member was Glenna Carr, a long time Tory connected former Ontario civil servant. There seems a decided lack of background in the nuclear industry that might be expected in persons who will participate in making decisions about reactor operations and safety. All parties do it. Appointments to regulatory boards and commissions are retirement sinecures for party cogs.

This morning I spent a chunk of time looking for a fax number for the federal natural resources minister’s office (Gary Lunn). I wanted to ask for epidemiological evidence that supported the many public statements about a supposed world-wide medical crisis that would result from a temporary short-term reduction in medical isotope supply. I couldn’t find a number, so I’ll have to make a phone call.

Basically, an epidemiologist would estimate the increased morbidity, including loss of life, by starting with the total number of persons who would be scheduled to receive diagnostic treatment using isotopes. The total would be reduced by the number of persons who were receiving elective procedures that could be rescheduled. The number would be further reduced by the number that could be treated by acceptable alternative clinical techniques. Other factors that would reduce the number are: the number of false positives in tests using isotopes and all other diagnostic procedures; the number of incorrect diagnoses; the number of persons who had untreatable pathologies or received incorrect or unsuccessful treatment. Most cancer related interventions are considered successful if patents survive for 5 years. The number would be further reduced by persons who didn’t survive for five years for reasons unrelated to the diagnosis and also who die as a result of side-effects of the diagnosis and treatment procedures themselves. I’ve likely missed some significant factors, but some I mentioned are sizable. Many medical examinations that produce referrals for imagining tests that use isotopes have rates of false positives above 20% (some rates are really high). Imaging is used to sort out the false positives of other procedures. Basically, many people scheduled to receive isotopes would be just fine, so you can hardly say that their lives were at risk or Harper is saving their lives by restarting the reactor.

I’m going to ask Lunn for the numbers, but I already know that credible ones would be a long way from anything that could be called a world-wide health crisis. On December 26th. I asked my MP (the reactor is in my riding, my MP is a Tory) how she might assure us of on-going safe reactor operations in light of the earthquake near the reactor site on 23 December. On January 10th I inquired if I would receive a response and asked if the AG report received by AECL and her government in September, which apparently cited various operating deficiencies, would change her assessment. I received a phone call from a staffer who told me that I would receive a response. I’m waiting.

Regarding reactor safety, conventional risk management activities allow for a catastrophic accident once every thousand years (there is no such thing as a risk free reactor or anything else for that matter). Everything needed to manage risk at those levels is subsumed in a reactor’s operating license, which by law must be maintained and is administered by the CNSB. Nobody is in a position to say that any part of the operating license is excessive and not needed unless they also are willing to say what the new risks are and that the new risks are an acceptable part of public policy. The reactor site has experienced 6.0 quakes and I believe the design standard is 8.0. I wonder what the risks were for our 3.6 quake when the backup pumps weren’t all connected and the reactor had been restarted by law: While our PM is acting, in effect, as the CEO of a reactor and the president of the safety board.

Maybe we’ll get some professional work done in the senior public service some day. I think it’s more likely that our spy spooks will be looking for WMD's in the CNSB offices first. The issue stopped being a professional technical one as soon as Harper intervened in a process that might have been working just fine. Now lawyers and politicians are involved. In a letter to the North Renfrew Times by AECL or more likely their lawyers, they seem to be reasoning that they never were in violation of their operating license because the safety board knew the pumps weren’t connected for months. Beg pardon? Does that mean that if I should take up bank robbery I should call the police and tell them I’m going to rob a bank, so then I’m not guilty? Huh? Well, the explanation likely is that the fines for operation of a reactor in violation of its operating license run to millions per day. What a shameful disgraceful place the seat of our national lives has become.
 
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Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
This is idiotic.

Yes, Linda Keen was doing her job when she insisted the double-safety feature be installed......she was NOT doing her job when she forced the reactor to shut down........

The problem was the lack of a double-insurance safety feature in case of an earthquake or other problem that might have caused a melt down...........so, for this to have been a problem, there would have had to have been some unforeseen incident, then that incident would have to cause major damage to the reactor, THEN the first line pump would have had to fail..............NOT BLOODY LIKELY!

BUT, with the reactor shut down, tens of thousands waited for treatment and/or diagnosis.....not MAYBE, not IF, not after triple disasters, not at some point in the future, but NOW, FOR SURE!

It was a VERY easily decided case of "the lesser of two evils".

OF COURSE the reactor had to be re-started, shutting it down was incompetent, and dear Ms. Keen should have STFU if she wanted to keep her job.

The Liberals, of course, would have let people diem FOR SURE just to maintain their level of political correctness in the public eye, they are completely risk-adverse, at least in the political sense.

Useless scum.

How's the glue snifing going Colpy?

The Liberals of course would have let people die eh? How many voted against restarting the reactor? C'mon buddy, you can tell me, can't you?

She did her job and got fired for it, in committee Lunn was asked for reasons and couldn't come up with one. So the feds fired someone for doing their job in the middle of the night before she is to appear before the committee and this is all okay? Gee I guess you're one the last people on earth who thinks GWB has done a good job.:roll:

When she sues and wins perhaps you will change your brain dead con mind.

"This is a concocted story. ... the Prime Minister's Office is involved," said McGuinty, who told the committee the firing was reminiscent of former U.S. Senator Joe McCarthy's relentless hunt during the 1950s for communist sympathizers, during which hundreds of people's lives were destroyed.
Several critics said Keen's firing "for doing her job" will send a chill through the ranks of senior officers serving on regulatory commissions who fear they might run afoul of the Conservative government.
"I don't know when the last precedent for anything like this is ... to have a Prime Minister and a minister go after a senior civil servant and regulator personally and question their integrity and competence is not something that happens in our system," said Elly Alboim, a journalism professor at Carleton University. "Can you run a serious country like this?" he said.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/294887

At least now I know how Hilter did what he did, he depended on the weak minded to follow him into the abyss.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
Keen tried to cover her butt at the expense of human lives. Harper isn't having it. We'll save the lives and pass from double to triple safety ASAP.

The lesser of evils, as Colpy put it is accurate. Some people just don't have the unblinded moral intellect, and Keen is one of them.


Keen did nothing of the sort, she did her job and got fired for it.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
I wasn't there, so I dunno, but:

Haven't previous governments and this one also, starved AECL for money? Seems I read this someplace.

Since Lunn is a Con, he should be hung just on principle, but I haven't heard any answer as to why backup pumps were not installed/working/whatever.

If they had to be installed/working, then, at some point in time the reactor would have to be shut down to do it, no? Were the cons just waiting in the weeds to fire somebody and replace them with fellow cons? We shall never know. Keen is still on the board, just not in charge. That's going to be a fun place for her to work........8O

Liberals are being their own disingenuous politically correct asshole selves, since they had years to bring the nukes up to speed but preferred to spend the money on bilingualism et al.

Steve, of course, wants to privatize.

Great to be a Canadian.

:tard:
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
476
11
18
25
Zurich
TomG, I applaud a rational examination of the decision, which was ostensibly to save lives. The numbers of lives to be saved have not been made public, nor the number of lives to be lost. Just what was the trade?

If the decision was not made on the numbers, if the numbers cannot be found, then there is a cover-up of some sort, even if it is only a cover-up of incompetent decision making. I do not think it unlikely that this 'crisis' was exaggerated. If we were to lose a thousand years of life every thousand years, including material damage costs at the triage value of a Canadian life, by running the reactor improperly for 24 months, perhaps we'd need to save only two to four years of life to break even.

Given that there is no nominal value ascribed to a life or a year of life by our government, (to the best of my knowledge) the decision cannot be rationally approached. Given that you are free to choose a value, you may approach the problem rationally. I suggest that you take the value from those like Ford and the FAA that are forced to make such defcisions on a regular basis.

How much is one human life worth? A world aviation body (ICAO) touched upon that question back in 1926 when it set a value of $75,000. Seventy years later (Nov. 1996) this amount was increased to $146,000.

The FAA: human life is assigned a dollar value of $2.7 million. This value is unrealistic. This value is affordable in an airline travel world, but we do not live in such a world. Ford's number will flow from lawsuits, one step closer to reality, but still a vain exaggeration.

Good luck with your calculations. A 'crisis' would surely be a loss of hundreds or thousands of lives, because we kill thousands in Toronto with pollution and the cost of cutting the carnage in half is nothing, proving that the real value of a Canadian life is sometimes zero.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
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Has anyone actually seen the relevant line in any of the legislation concerning nuclear safety and regulations, where it explains the head of the commission has an obligation to ensure that medical isotopes flow from the CRU?

On the flip side, her responsibilities as far as minimum operating equipment are concenred are well defined. That is her job after all. Keen's position was not the CEO of a medical supplies company. That is why it took legislation to get the facility working again.

Sure it's a level of redundancy, and sure the odds aren't so great, but that's not the point. There is a reason nuclear facilities have double, triple, even more levels of redundancy. She was doing her job, and she got canned. It's that simple.

Let's not forget how this mess started. Harper accusing a Liberal appointee of interference. The auditor generals report makes clear that the Department of Natural Resources was aware of the situation. Lunn should be canned for not doing his job.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Almost forgot"

The politicos play kick the can with isotopes and "safety issues" (bullsh!t), while people potentially die from lack of cancer treatment.

Typical.

:angryfire:
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
18
Canada
Holy cow Avro - you hosting a barbeque? There's a whole lotta flamin' goin' on. . .

Pangloss


I can understand Avro's feelings. Political interference or intimidation of a regulator is a very serious issue. Those people are suppose to be independent. Just like our judicial system.

Keen did her job. She's filed issues with the facility and nothing was done about those issues within the given time frame. Nuclear safety is not to be taken lightly. It doesn't matter how remote an accident might be. The consequences of an accident are serious and she gave her recommendations well in advance. Even an audit points out that serious concerns should have been addressed by AECL. After such deadlines, issuing closure of the facility was no doubt simply procedure. Wouldn't you expect the same action on a food manufacturing operation with safety concerns?

While there is a serious dependency on the product of the facility, isn't not up to her to give passes based on the need related to the product. Parliament voted on accepting the risk whether right or wrong in the face of AECL neglect as to restarting the reactor. Keen however did her job as a regulator and nothing more or less should have been asked of her.

Anyone defending the government on this and Lunn's actions are so terribly wrong. Our country is an example by the checks and balances of our system. This totally undermines that. We have to have confidence that our regulators are looking out for us without interference. Without fear of intimidation. Whether that is corporate interference or political.
 
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TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
135
10
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A government commonly makes decisions that shuffle the mortality deck as do most decision makers including ourselves. Decisions that affect societies or groups need group measures to reflect morality or ethics. In medical ethics an intervention that does not produce a net reduction in morbidity is unethical—even so the decisions remain co,plex. In social ethics, it might be J.S. Mill and the ethical calculus (the greatest good for the greatest number) although I’ve never heard of it reduced to a metric. Both examples are group measures that consider the consequences of actions as well as the intended laudable results.

Basically, our PM cannot point to prevention of a single or small number of deaths as a moral virtue whenever it is convenient. Governments frequently make budget decisions to fund military equipment purchases rather than preventative medicine initiatives; governments form policies to create elective senates and reapportion in ways that create more jobs for politicians and support facilities; they create larger cabinets but not additional medical school and hospital capacities; governments fail to adequately fund white collar crime policing units, when such crime smashes many lives. Stress and povety kill too.

At present, we have fewer physicians per population than in many decades and we have a sizable percent of the population who are unable to find family physicians. We have had huge reductions in federal funding to health care made by previous Liberal governments that have not been restored, and politics is about the only economic sector of the economy that hasn’t been downsized. These are all budgetary issues. I’d be terribly surprised if some minor juggling of federal budget priorities wouldn’t reduce net morbidities far more than restarting the reactor might have. Harper’s claim of having take over the safety board to restart the reactor for high minded moral reasons simple doesn’t wash, nor does the character assassination of Keen (for placing lives at risk). The supply of isotopes is not part of the safety board’s mandate--nuclear safety is.

There is no such thing as a risk free reactor. The acceptable risk is the result of public policy formation. Conventionally 1000 years per catastrophic accident is acceptable in this society. A 1000 years is a pretty remote event by any standard, but that is the public policy and backed by legislative acts. Moral behaviour for government might be to fix the several boards, if desirable, through appointments etc., or accept greater risk by forming new public policy. Taking over a regulatory board and arbitrarily deciding that some safety requirements are unnecessary seem morally weak. Whether backup for backup etc. would only be required in event of remote circumstances is beside the point. You certainly don’t want catastrophic accidents to be anything less than utterly remote possibilities.

Contriving an emergency crisis and taking over the safety board and legislatively sanctifying a departure from the existing operating license doesn’t seem to be a very defensible moral or ethical position. For a PM to make public statements that the reactor could be restarted without risk to the public is indefensible and offensive, even if a weaselly ‘appreciable’ qualifier is added. Neither the crisis, the high minded moral intervention into reactor operations and safety nor the lack of risk to the public seem to come out vey well in the wash.
 
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