Council Member
Posts: 1,694 
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 03:29 PM
Quoting lone wolf
and what "rules" exactley are you thinking the Catholic School's are "enforcing" that a public School Board wouldn't enforce that could be seen to be detrimental to the "proper" education of it's students?
I sure did read it. Seems to me if the school isn't reinforcing your rules, then the school and anyone who doesn't agree with you is going to be in the same boat.
Woof!
Woof!
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,514
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
November 24th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Woof
Quoting gerryh
The rule that says your kids are not permitted to see any farther than you. That is exactly what narrowing their choices of reading material is. If you want to encourage a kid to keep his/her/your Faith, then the Faith has to be willing to give them room to compare and let the choice be a free one.
and what "rules" exactley are you thinking the Catholic School's are "enforcing" that a public School Board wouldn't enforce that could be seen to be detrimental to the "proper" education of it's students?
Woof
Council Member
Posts: 1,694
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 03:42 PM
Once again it is shown that those that oppose the Catholic School system don't really know what they are opposing.
Quoting lone wolf
That is YOUR perception and it is an unproven and unprovable perception. It is also an incorrect one.
The rule that says your kids are not permitted to see any farther than you. That is exactly what narrowing their choices of reading material is.
Woof
Woof
Once again it is shown that those that oppose the Catholic School system don't really know what they are opposing.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
November 24th, 2007, 03:45 PM
But thanks for the chuckles.
Quoting MikeyDB
Nothing here I would disagree with
Critical to delivering a quality well-rounded education is the free dissemination of all material. When a few "high-minded" folk decide what is and what isn't appropriate for the curriculum of an educational institution, that student bodies access to material is shaped not by the challenge of discriminating minds but by the willingness of a few to direct and control thinking.... Hardly the climate of intellectual availability one would hope to find in an "education system".
Quote:
No problem here yet either.
Catholics or any religious group anxious to hide part of the world and glorify other parts of the world aren't educating, they're conditioning.
Quote:
Nice try but over the top in its implication. They are removing a book to examine its merit.
If Catholics are happy to follow in the footsteps of the Taliban and other religious fanatics in demonstrating how fragile their philosophy actually is,that reticence to openness and critical challenge will produce the same results as the radical Islamists of the Taliban.
Quote:
OMFG, of course that is the issue. lol.... get serious.
The issue isn't that the Taliban are soooo bad,
Quote:
baloney
the issue is that the minds of children will be shaped and sculpted to particular views that don't accurately reflect the nature of the world in which these youngsters will make their way.
Quote:
Like the nice balanced critical thinking you have presented here.
If the Catholic school had made an issue of gratuitious violence and sexuality as its depicted in a great deal of television broadcasting, or even could manage to identify the decades of abuse and continuing lawlessness of the Roman Catholic Church in protecting abusers from the law, then a message that's balanced and invites critical thinking could perhaps flourish.
Quote:
But the Roman Catholics like the Taliban
Quote:
According to whom? You? You have access to their curriculum do you? NO? I thought not.
don't want to juxtapose their behaviors and prejudices beside anything remotely akin to free-thinking that a book or program originating in the mind of an atheist might represent.
Quote:
Which Catholic crapped in your cereal this morning? I don't think you have a clue what these folks are about.
These folk don't care any more about the truth than they care about personal and community responsibility.
But thanks for the chuckles.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,514
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
November 24th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Woof!
Quoting gerryh
Oppose it? My kids survived it.... I oppose fifteenth-century thinking and selective hearing. Is it any wonder the Church is failing?
That is YOUR perception and it is an unproven and unprovable perception. It is also an incorrect one.
If it's unproven and unprovable, how can it be incorrect?
Once again it is shown that those that oppose the Catholic School system don't really know what they are opposing.
If it's unproven and unprovable, how can it be incorrect?
Once again it is shown that those that oppose the Catholic School system don't really know what they are opposing.
Woof!
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,247
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
November 24th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Quoting Sal
I object to your use of the word baloney, I think it's particularly telling when we allow processed meat to be used as a weapon in a civilized discussion. Iff this is what you stand for, god help us all.
Nothing here I would disagree with
No problem here yet either.
Nice try but over the top in its implication. They are removing a book to examine its merit.
OMFG, of course that is the issue. lol.... get serious.
baloney
Like the nice balanced critical thinking you have presented here.
According to whom? You? You have access to their curriculum do you? NO? I thought not.
Which Catholic crapped in your cereal this morning? I don't think you have a clue what these folks are about.
But thanks for the chuckles.
No problem here yet either.
Nice try but over the top in its implication. They are removing a book to examine its merit.
OMFG, of course that is the issue. lol.... get serious.
baloney
Like the nice balanced critical thinking you have presented here.
According to whom? You? You have access to their curriculum do you? NO? I thought not.
Which Catholic crapped in your cereal this morning? I don't think you have a clue what these folks are about.
But thanks for the chuckles.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
November 24th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Smack...you turd I just logged out...hadda come back in to smack ya.
Quoting darkbeaver
Spam, spam, spam. That tastes waaay worse than baloney... well, I don't really know that personally. I would rather starve than eat something which comes out of a can covered in some obscurely coloured gelatinous thing.
I object to your use of the word baloney, I think it's particularly telling when we allow processed meat to be used as a weapon in a civilized discussion. Iff this is what you stand for, god help us all.
Smack...you turd I just logged out...hadda come back in to smack ya.
November 24th, 2007, 04:39 PM
*Sorry Mrs McBagpipe*
Quoting darkbeaver
We could say HAGGIS! That's damn HAGGIS!
I object to your use of the word baloney, I think it's particularly telling when we allow processed meat to be used as a weapon in a civilized discussion. Iff this is what you stand for, god help us all.
*Sorry Mrs McBagpipe*
Council Member
Posts: 1,694
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 05:42 PM
I'd say that you didn't pay attention to what they were being taught OR you have tunnel vision and only looked at the religion class.
My 2 youngest are in Catholic Schools, with the older one graduating in January just 1 month past hs 17th birthday and the youngest in grade 7. They are getting a better education than my previous kids who were in public schools. They have recieved extra help as and when needed with alot less hastle than we had in the public school systems. The only religious influence they have is in their religion classes and the manditory masses. In senior high the teachers welcome questions and critical thinking in the religion classes. So I really don't see what it is that your kids had to "survive".
Quoting lone wolf
Oppose it? My kids survived it.... I oppose fifteenth-century thinking and selective hearing. Is it any wonder the Church is failing?
Woof!
Woof!
I'd say that you didn't pay attention to what they were being taught OR you have tunnel vision and only looked at the religion class.
My 2 youngest are in Catholic Schools, with the older one graduating in January just 1 month past hs 17th birthday and the youngest in grade 7. They are getting a better education than my previous kids who were in public schools. They have recieved extra help as and when needed with alot less hastle than we had in the public school systems. The only religious influence they have is in their religion classes and the manditory masses. In senior high the teachers welcome questions and critical thinking in the religion classes. So I really don't see what it is that your kids had to "survive".
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,247
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
November 24th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Quoting YoungJoonKim
I'd rather be bitten by a rabid dog and hung in a public execution and go to hell to sit in a brimstone recliner for eternity.
I'd rather go to Christian school [which I do] than some public school...yeah..I think its that bad in terms of both moral and education.
But who knows, I have no idea what Catholics do.
But who knows, I have no idea what Catholics do.
Council Member
Posts: 1,694
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 05:48 PM
Quoting darkbeaver
Your wish wil be granted.
I'd rather be bitten by a rabid dog and hung in a public execution and go to hell to sit in a brimstone recliner for eternity.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,514
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
November 24th, 2007, 06:05 PM
Woof!
Quoting gerryh
Academically, both systems were quite on par. Ontario is like that. My son's speech problem was seen as part of the curriculum whereas in the public school system, he would have seen outside help. I have found the religion doesn't encourage the kids to see beyond that which is supported by the Church (from Harry Potter banished to my daughter's demonstration of dousing being banned because it's also called "witching" for water) I do find your choice in the term "tunnel vision" to be rather ironic.
I'd say that you didn't pay attention to what they were being taught OR you have tunnel vision and only looked at the religion class.
My 2 youngest are in Catholic Schools, with the older one graduating in January just 1 month past hs 17th birthday and the youngest in grade 7. They are getting a better education than my previous kids who were in public schools. They have recieved extra help as and when needed with alot less hastle than we had in the public school systems. The only religious influence they have is in their religion classes and the manditory masses. In senior high the teachers welcome questions and critical thinking in the religion classes. So I really don't see what it is that your kids had to "survive".
My 2 youngest are in Catholic Schools, with the older one graduating in January just 1 month past hs 17th birthday and the youngest in grade 7. They are getting a better education than my previous kids who were in public schools. They have recieved extra help as and when needed with alot less hastle than we had in the public school systems. The only religious influence they have is in their religion classes and the manditory masses. In senior high the teachers welcome questions and critical thinking in the religion classes. So I really don't see what it is that your kids had to "survive".
Woof!
Super Genius
Posts: 1,274
November 24th, 2007, 08:15 PM
I get a bad feeling when I hear this tactic of "it doesn't effect you if you are not part of my realm". We ARE all in this together, and the actions of the churches do affect everyone in the nation. It doesn't invite a good discussion, my friend.
As for the topic of using public money to fund religious education, I think it is time to stop doing that. I admit I do not know how much of those Catholic schools' classes are about religion and how much are merely the basic subject material without any religious slant, but there must be some "Catholic indoctrination" going on or why have those schools.
I object to any religious [or ethnic] indoctrination of our children before they are old enough to know differently, even if they are based on their parent's wishes.
Quoting gerryh
I think this thread got off to a bad start with the [regretted later] "Taliban" remark, but then this doesn't help either.
obviously you're not Catholic, so........this effects you how?
I get a bad feeling when I hear this tactic of "it doesn't effect you if you are not part of my realm". We ARE all in this together, and the actions of the churches do affect everyone in the nation. It doesn't invite a good discussion, my friend.
As for the topic of using public money to fund religious education, I think it is time to stop doing that. I admit I do not know how much of those Catholic schools' classes are about religion and how much are merely the basic subject material without any religious slant, but there must be some "Catholic indoctrination" going on or why have those schools.
I object to any religious [or ethnic] indoctrination of our children before they are old enough to know differently, even if they are based on their parent's wishes.
Council Member
Posts: 1,694
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 09:25 PM
Did you not have input into your childs education? Were you not able to say, "that is what they teach, but this is what I believe and why"? You, the parent, have the largest role in teaching your children when it comes to Faith, or anything else for that matter.
The banning of the HP books did not effect me or mine at all. My second youngest fell in love with that series and made him an avid reader. Before HP he wouldn't pick up a book if his life depended on it. When the Archdiocese banned the series it didn't surprise me at all. It was inline with Catholic teaching. The same would apply to "dousing" or "witching", it's unfortunate that witching is applied to the art, but it is. Even though it was banned at your daughter's school, did it stop your daughter from learning about it, or you teaching her about it?
I didn't agree with the courts allowing the young man to bring his male date to the prom at the Catholic High School. It was not their right to grant that. It was the School boards right to refuse the young man's request because of the churches stand on homosexuality.
If you're going to send your kids to a seperate school then you should not be surprised when the moral tenants of the faith are upheld by the School Board. If you have a problem with the board supporting the churches tennents than you should remove your kids from the seperate system and put them into the public.
Quoting lone wolf
Academically, both systems were quite on par. Ontario is like that. My son's speech problem was seen as part of the curriculum whereas in the public school system, he would have seen outside help. I have found the religion doesn't encourage the kids to see beyond that which is supported by the Church (from Harry Potter banished to my daughter's demonstration of dousing being banned because it's also called "witching" for water) I do find your choice in the term "tunnel vision" to be rather ironic.
Woof!
Woof!
Did you not have input into your childs education? Were you not able to say, "that is what they teach, but this is what I believe and why"? You, the parent, have the largest role in teaching your children when it comes to Faith, or anything else for that matter.
The banning of the HP books did not effect me or mine at all. My second youngest fell in love with that series and made him an avid reader. Before HP he wouldn't pick up a book if his life depended on it. When the Archdiocese banned the series it didn't surprise me at all. It was inline with Catholic teaching. The same would apply to "dousing" or "witching", it's unfortunate that witching is applied to the art, but it is. Even though it was banned at your daughter's school, did it stop your daughter from learning about it, or you teaching her about it?
I didn't agree with the courts allowing the young man to bring his male date to the prom at the Catholic High School. It was not their right to grant that. It was the School boards right to refuse the young man's request because of the churches stand on homosexuality.
If you're going to send your kids to a seperate school then you should not be surprised when the moral tenants of the faith are upheld by the School Board. If you have a problem with the board supporting the churches tennents than you should remove your kids from the seperate system and put them into the public.
Council Member
Posts: 1,694
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
November 24th, 2007, 09:34 PM
Tell me, how does the Catholic School Board banning of a fiction/fantasy novel effect ANYONE that does not use the Catholic School system? How did it effect YOU when HP books were banned by the Catholic School Boards?
If you admit to not knowing how much "Catholic indoctrination" is going on in Catholic Schools, then how can you call for the abolishment of public funding for those Schools on that basis?
Ok...you are REALLY going to have to tell me how you propose that there be no religious or ethnic "indoctrination" of children before they are "old enough to know differntly" and exactley at what age that would be. Please keep in mind when framing your answer that many adults that practice one faith or another do so by attending a church/synogogue/mosque on a semi regular basis.
Quoting Karlin
I think this thread got off to a bad start with the [regretted later] "Taliban" remark, but then this doesn't help either.
I get a bad feeling when I hear this tactic of "it doesn't effect you if you are not part of my realm". We ARE all in this together, and the actions of the churches do affect everyone in the nation. It doesn't invite a good discussion, my friend.
As for the topic of using public money to fund religious education, I think it is time to stop doing that. I admit I do not know how much of those Catholic schools' classes are about religion and how much are merely the basic subject material without any religious slant, but there must be some "Catholic indoctrination" going on or why have those schools.
I object to any religious [or ethnic] indoctrination of our children before they are old enough to know differently, even if they are based on their parent's wishes.
I get a bad feeling when I hear this tactic of "it doesn't effect you if you are not part of my realm". We ARE all in this together, and the actions of the churches do affect everyone in the nation. It doesn't invite a good discussion, my friend.
As for the topic of using public money to fund religious education, I think it is time to stop doing that. I admit I do not know how much of those Catholic schools' classes are about religion and how much are merely the basic subject material without any religious slant, but there must be some "Catholic indoctrination" going on or why have those schools.
I object to any religious [or ethnic] indoctrination of our children before they are old enough to know differently, even if they are based on their parent's wishes.
Tell me, how does the Catholic School Board banning of a fiction/fantasy novel effect ANYONE that does not use the Catholic School system? How did it effect YOU when HP books were banned by the Catholic School Boards?
If you admit to not knowing how much "Catholic indoctrination" is going on in Catholic Schools, then how can you call for the abolishment of public funding for those Schools on that basis?
Ok...you are REALLY going to have to tell me how you propose that there be no religious or ethnic "indoctrination" of children before they are "old enough to know differntly" and exactley at what age that would be. Please keep in mind when framing your answer that many adults that practice one faith or another do so by attending a church/synogogue/mosque on a semi regular basis.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 5,514
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
November 24th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Quoting gerryh
Woof!
Did you not have input into your childs education? Were you not able to say, "that is what they teach, but this is what I believe and why"? You, the parent, have the largest role in teaching your children when it comes to Faith, or anything else for that matter.
At home? Yes. In the school - academically, yes. In the Church? Over a thousand years worth of archaic bureaucracy is not easily swayed.
The banning of the HP books did not effect me or mine at all. My second youngest fell in love with that series and made him an avid reader. Before HP he wouldn't pick up a book if his life depended on it. When the Archdiocese banned the series it didn't surprise me at all. It was inline with Catholic teaching. The same would apply to "dousing" or "witching", it's unfortunate that witching is applied to the art, but it is. Even though it was banned at your daughter's school, did it stop your daughter from learning about it, or you teaching her about it?
Let's just say neither school nor the Church got in the way of my kids' educations.
I didn't agree with the courts allowing the young man to bring his male date to the prom at the Catholic High School. It was not their right to grant that. It was the School boards right to refuse the young man's request because of the churches stand on homosexuality.
Personally, I don't find homosexuality a threat. If God made 'em that way, who am I to tell Her She's wrong?
If you're going to send your kids to a seperate school then you should not be surprised when the moral tenants of the faith are upheld by the School Board. If you have a problem with the board supporting the churches tennents than you should remove your kids from the seperate system and put them into the public.
Too late. My kids are grown and gone off to bigger and better things - well educated and quite prepared for whatever life may throw at them - with and without the Church's blessings.
At home? Yes. In the school - academically, yes. In the Church? Over a thousand years worth of archaic bureaucracy is not easily swayed.
The banning of the HP books did not effect me or mine at all. My second youngest fell in love with that series and made him an avid reader. Before HP he wouldn't pick up a book if his life depended on it. When the Archdiocese banned the series it didn't surprise me at all. It was inline with Catholic teaching. The same would apply to "dousing" or "witching", it's unfortunate that witching is applied to the art, but it is. Even though it was banned at your daughter's school, did it stop your daughter from learning about it, or you teaching her about it?
Let's just say neither school nor the Church got in the way of my kids' educations.
I didn't agree with the courts allowing the young man to bring his male date to the prom at the Catholic High School. It was not their right to grant that. It was the School boards right to refuse the young man's request because of the churches stand on homosexuality.
Personally, I don't find homosexuality a threat. If God made 'em that way, who am I to tell Her She's wrong?
If you're going to send your kids to a seperate school then you should not be surprised when the moral tenants of the faith are upheld by the School Board. If you have a problem with the board supporting the churches tennents than you should remove your kids from the seperate system and put them into the public.
Too late. My kids are grown and gone off to bigger and better things - well educated and quite prepared for whatever life may throw at them - with and without the Church's blessings.
