War Minister
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Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
November 6th, 2007, 11:13 AM
Nov 06, 2007 04:30 AM
Bruce Campion-Smith
Ottawa Bureau Chief
OTTAWA–Federal government lawyers likely would not have recommended a $2 million payout to Brian Mulroney had they known about his financial dealings with Karlheinz Schreiber, says Eddie Goldenberg, Jean Chrétien's former top adviser.
"Knowing then what we know now, I would doubt that the department of justice would have recommended a settlement and frankly I would doubt that the government of the day, the minister of justice of the day, would have agreed to that recommendation," he said in an interview.
Chrétien was the prime minister who signed off on the cash settlement with Mulroney in January 1997.
Mulroney, prime minister from 1984 until 1993, had sued the federal government after the justice department named him in a letter alleging his involvement in a kickback scheme for Air Canada's purchase of Airbus jetliners in 1988.
At the time of the settlement, the government was under the impression that Mulroney had had only limited dealings with Schreiber, the alleged architect of the scheme.
In a transcript of an examination for discovery held in 1996, Mulroney was asked a question about Schreiber and replied, "I had never had any dealings with him."
But it was later revealed that the former prime minister had received $300,000 from Schreiber. He says he had sought Mulroney's help launching a chain of pasta restaurants and on behalf of a German-based company that wanted to set up an armament plant in Quebec.
But Goldenberg, who was Chrétien's senior policy adviser at the time, suggested the prime minister was in the dark about the extent of Mulroney's dealings with Schreiber, a fact he says that might have changed the government's willingness to offer a settlement.
Last week, the CBC's fifth estate and The Globe and Mail reported that Mulroney delayed paying taxes on the $300,000 he got from Schreiber.
"I further doubt that the government would have agreed if those facts were on the record at the time," Goldenberg said in an interview yesterday.
"The very fact that he had had monetary dealings with Mr. Schreiber. ...
"He had at least let it be believed that he didn't have any monetary dealings with him," Goldenberg said.
Instead, he said that Chrétien accepted the recommendation of the justice department to settle with Mulroney.
"At the time, the department of justice recommended to the minister of justice and attorney general that they settle for whatever reasons," Goldenberg said.
"It was very much a recommendation from the department of justice to the minister of justice. ... He accepted that recommendation and he made that recommendation and the prime minister accepted it right away. There wasn't much debate."
But Mulroney spokesperson Luc Lavoie says the $300,000 paid by Schreiber has become a red herring and had nothing to do with the Airbus affair.
Instead, it was meant as payment for Mulroney's help with business ventures.
"This retainer was paid after Mr. Mulroney left office and was in no way connected with the Airbus transaction," Lavoie said yesterday in an email.
And he said when the RCMP finally closed their investigation into the Airbus affair in 2003 and cleared Mulroney of any wrongdoing, "they had known for a full two years about the $300,000 retainer," Lavoie said.
Chrétien himself says he was relieved when the government settled out of court, saying it spared Mulroney, the police and "the reputation of all our public institutions and officials."
But then he admits his own surprise at news of the payments received by the former prime minister.
"Of course, I was as mystified as every other Canadian when Mulroney later admitted to having received $300,000 in cash payments from Schreiber after leaving office," Chrétien writes in his new book titled My Years as Prime Minister.
"However, as I told my officials, the only proper thing to do was to accept the word of a former prime minister of Canada," he said.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has rebuffed opposition demands for an inquiry, but it's not likely to dampen calls for an accounting of Mulroney's business dealings with Schreiber.
Nov 06, 2007 04:30 AM
Bruce Campion-Smith
Ottawa Bureau Chief
OTTAWA–Federal government lawyers likely would not have recommended a $2 million payout to Brian Mulroney had they known about his financial dealings with Karlheinz Schreiber, says Eddie Goldenberg, Jean Chrétien's former top adviser.
"Knowing then what we know now, I would doubt that the department of justice would have recommended a settlement and frankly I would doubt that the government of the day, the minister of justice of the day, would have agreed to that recommendation," he said in an interview.
Chrétien was the prime minister who signed off on the cash settlement with Mulroney in January 1997.
Mulroney, prime minister from 1984 until 1993, had sued the federal government after the justice department named him in a letter alleging his involvement in a kickback scheme for Air Canada's purchase of Airbus jetliners in 1988.
At the time of the settlement, the government was under the impression that Mulroney had had only limited dealings with Schreiber, the alleged architect of the scheme.
In a transcript of an examination for discovery held in 1996, Mulroney was asked a question about Schreiber and replied, "I had never had any dealings with him."
But it was later revealed that the former prime minister had received $300,000 from Schreiber. He says he had sought Mulroney's help launching a chain of pasta restaurants and on behalf of a German-based company that wanted to set up an armament plant in Quebec.
But Goldenberg, who was Chrétien's senior policy adviser at the time, suggested the prime minister was in the dark about the extent of Mulroney's dealings with Schreiber, a fact he says that might have changed the government's willingness to offer a settlement.
Last week, the CBC's fifth estate and The Globe and Mail reported that Mulroney delayed paying taxes on the $300,000 he got from Schreiber.
"I further doubt that the government would have agreed if those facts were on the record at the time," Goldenberg said in an interview yesterday.
"The very fact that he had had monetary dealings with Mr. Schreiber. ...
"He had at least let it be believed that he didn't have any monetary dealings with him," Goldenberg said.
Instead, he said that Chrétien accepted the recommendation of the justice department to settle with Mulroney.
"At the time, the department of justice recommended to the minister of justice and attorney general that they settle for whatever reasons," Goldenberg said.
"It was very much a recommendation from the department of justice to the minister of justice. ... He accepted that recommendation and he made that recommendation and the prime minister accepted it right away. There wasn't much debate."
But Mulroney spokesperson Luc Lavoie says the $300,000 paid by Schreiber has become a red herring and had nothing to do with the Airbus affair.
Instead, it was meant as payment for Mulroney's help with business ventures.
"This retainer was paid after Mr. Mulroney left office and was in no way connected with the Airbus transaction," Lavoie said yesterday in an email.
And he said when the RCMP finally closed their investigation into the Airbus affair in 2003 and cleared Mulroney of any wrongdoing, "they had known for a full two years about the $300,000 retainer," Lavoie said.
Chrétien himself says he was relieved when the government settled out of court, saying it spared Mulroney, the police and "the reputation of all our public institutions and officials."
But then he admits his own surprise at news of the payments received by the former prime minister.
"Of course, I was as mystified as every other Canadian when Mulroney later admitted to having received $300,000 in cash payments from Schreiber after leaving office," Chrétien writes in his new book titled My Years as Prime Minister.
"However, as I told my officials, the only proper thing to do was to accept the word of a former prime minister of Canada," he said.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has rebuffed opposition demands for an inquiry, but it's not likely to dampen calls for an accounting of Mulroney's business dealings with Schreiber.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,600
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
November 6th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Mulroney is scum.....I would be much happier if he had absolutely NO connection with anyone in the CPC.
I joined the Reform Party WAY back when largely because of Lyin' Brian.
But Brian has ALREADY been investigated to the nth degree.........it is unlikely that any illegality can be proven at this late date.....an inquiry would be a waste of time and money because
And yes, part of Harper's hesitation is undubtedly an attempt to protect the Party, if not Mulroney himself....
But as for giving him a majority, better someone that protects Lyin'Brian that a Party that protects terror groups such as the Tamil Tigers....
And that is what it comes down to....pick the least offensive party..... (sigh)
Mulroney is scum.....I would be much happier if he had absolutely NO connection with anyone in the CPC.
I joined the Reform Party WAY back when largely because of Lyin' Brian.
But Brian has ALREADY been investigated to the nth degree.........it is unlikely that any illegality can be proven at this late date.....an inquiry would be a waste of time and money because
Quote:
I have NO doubt the sleazy bastard was up to something...........but he has simply gotten away with it.....live with it.
when the RCMP finally closed their investigation into the Airbus affair in 2003 and cleared Mulroney of any wrongdoing, "they had known for a full two years about the $300,000 retainer," Lavoie said.
And yes, part of Harper's hesitation is undubtedly an attempt to protect the Party, if not Mulroney himself....
But as for giving him a majority, better someone that protects Lyin'Brian that a Party that protects terror groups such as the Tamil Tigers....
And that is what it comes down to....pick the least offensive party..... (sigh)
War Minister
Posts: 3,061
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
November 6th, 2007, 01:00 PM
It would be beneficial I think to have the voters boost both the NDP and the Green Party to provide a balance of alternatives in the House. Then it wouldn't be so either or every election.
Quote:
So much for accountability eh?
And yes, part of Harper's hesitation is undubtedly an attempt to protect the Party, if not Mulroney himself....
It would be beneficial I think to have the voters boost both the NDP and the Green Party to provide a balance of alternatives in the House. Then it wouldn't be so either or every election.
Time Out
Posts: 214
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
November 6th, 2007, 01:01 PM
The Libs had 13 years to deal with this... to investigate it properly.... they botched it AND paid that scumbag $2 Million to boot!
Harper is buddies with Mulroney.... it is now too late to do a damn thing.... years of corruption (Mulroney years) followed by years of incompetence AND corruption (Cretin) followed by ???? time will tell.... so far it isn't looking good.
When will Canada wake up? A pox on all your houses whoever votes for either corrupt party. The sooner BC leaves this banana republic, the better.
The Libs had 13 years to deal with this... to investigate it properly.... they botched it AND paid that scumbag $2 Million to boot!
Harper is buddies with Mulroney.... it is now too late to do a damn thing.... years of corruption (Mulroney years) followed by years of incompetence AND corruption (Cretin) followed by ???? time will tell.... so far it isn't looking good.
When will Canada wake up? A pox on all your houses whoever votes for either corrupt party. The sooner BC leaves this banana republic, the better.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 6,283
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
November 6th, 2007, 01:07 PM
The Libs had skeletons in their closets too. Chretien hotel and golf courses for Quebec and the Gun Control fiasco come quickly to mind. A little revenge hit would have Liberal rats scurrying the other way in a well-travelled gutter.
Get the wealthy OUT of office for they do NOT represent a majority....
Woof!
The Libs had skeletons in their closets too. Chretien hotel and golf courses for Quebec and the Gun Control fiasco come quickly to mind. A little revenge hit would have Liberal rats scurrying the other way in a well-travelled gutter.
Get the wealthy OUT of office for they do NOT represent a majority....
Woof!
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
November 6th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Quoting Unforgiven
Mulroney did swear under oath that he never had any dealings with Schreiber. That was obviously a lie and that puts every thing the chin says under suspicion. Harper should be aware that this crap can rub off on anyone who gets too close.
So much for accountability eh?
It would be beneficial I think to have the voters boost both the NDP and the Green Party to provide a balance of alternatives in the House. Then it wouldn't be so either or every election.
It would be beneficial I think to have the voters boost both the NDP and the Green Party to provide a balance of alternatives in the House. Then it wouldn't be so either or every election.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,600
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
November 7th, 2007, 12:47 AM
The SOB could be charged with perjury, one would suspect.........but that would be up to the Justice Dep't WITHOUT political interference, and they say the case is closed...
Damn, Lyin' Brian convicted of Lyin' would be just TOO sweet!
Quoting #juan
Good point, Juan.
Mulroney did swear under oath that he never had any dealings with Schreiber. That was obviously a lie and that puts every thing the chin says under suspicion. Harper should be aware that this crap can rub off on anyone who gets too close.
The SOB could be charged with perjury, one would suspect.........but that would be up to the Justice Dep't WITHOUT political interference, and they say the case is closed...
Damn, Lyin' Brian convicted of Lyin' would be just TOO sweet!
Time Out
Posts: 3,867
Videos: 1
Location: Honour our Fallen
Videos: 1
Location: Honour our Fallen
November 7th, 2007, 01:11 AM
He was paid off by his peers.shrieber is in jail here for chrissakes and has a semi gag around his mouth.
People look at these things and see sworn enemies .Chretien against Mulroney, yeah right.I'm starting to believe it's a whole other world with unwritten laws that they just protect one another in the club.
None of them have anything ever happen to them, no matter what they are invovled in.
what was that traitor's name ...Rene Levesque..yeah..did he not have a state funeral? .i mean this is a guy that devised a party for the one purpose only,the breaking up the country. They all showed up to his funeral like he was one of them.....All gave beautiful speeches of the great guy.....
were voting for some good ole boy's network where they pad their purses and shout about the other guy's when found out .....but do nothing....
He was paid off by his peers.shrieber is in jail here for chrissakes and has a semi gag around his mouth.
People look at these things and see sworn enemies .Chretien against Mulroney, yeah right.I'm starting to believe it's a whole other world with unwritten laws that they just protect one another in the club.
None of them have anything ever happen to them, no matter what they are invovled in.
what was that traitor's name ...Rene Levesque..yeah..did he not have a state funeral? .i mean this is a guy that devised a party for the one purpose only,the breaking up the country. They all showed up to his funeral like he was one of them.....All gave beautiful speeches of the great guy.....
were voting for some good ole boy's network where they pad their purses and shout about the other guy's when found out .....but do nothing....
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
November 7th, 2007, 08:14 AM
But we won't hold Chretien accountable for the taxpayer paving the road to his cottage and many other instances of Canadian politicians fleecing the average Joe....it's not the "Canadian-Way" of doing things. We'd rather celebrate the fact that our administration doesn't support the Tigers or find bullshyte excuses for taking our nation to war.....
I think we're better off, but the accountability factor that's missing in Canadian politics is a smudge on any criticism leveled at any other government by a Canadian willing to give the likes of Mulroney a pass...
Quoting Colpy
I absolutely agree Colpy!
Good point, Juan.
The SOB could be charged with perjury, one would suspect.........but that would be up to the Justice Dep't WITHOUT political interference, and they say the case is closed...
Damn, Lyin' Brian convicted of Lyin' would be just TOO sweet!
The SOB could be charged with perjury, one would suspect.........but that would be up to the Justice Dep't WITHOUT political interference, and they say the case is closed...
Damn, Lyin' Brian convicted of Lyin' would be just TOO sweet!
But we won't hold Chretien accountable for the taxpayer paving the road to his cottage and many other instances of Canadian politicians fleecing the average Joe....it's not the "Canadian-Way" of doing things. We'd rather celebrate the fact that our administration doesn't support the Tigers or find bullshyte excuses for taking our nation to war.....
I think we're better off, but the accountability factor that's missing in Canadian politics is a smudge on any criticism leveled at any other government by a Canadian willing to give the likes of Mulroney a pass...
November 7th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Quoting dirtylinder
LOL.
Ripping off the Gov't is what stories like this make me want to do....didn't they name a town after Mulrooney? Yup, they did, it's called Moose Jaw!
Durgan
Posts: 248
Location: Brantford, ON
Location: Brantford, ON
November 8th, 2007, 03:03 PM
For the first time in 30 years Mulrooney is silent.
The little reported Harper Press response in Halifax was most annoying. Harper's reponse about setting up an inquiry was tantamount to a blackmail attempt. The thrust of the response was something like, "do you want me to delve into past Liberal shady practices also? The Liberals should carefully consider their request."
I must admit that I would be interested in how much cash was dispensed by Sheilla Copps,(Heritage Minister) when she was flying around with blank cheques in her carpet bag dispensing to all and sundry.
Durgan.
For the first time in 30 years Mulrooney is silent.
The little reported Harper Press response in Halifax was most annoying. Harper's reponse about setting up an inquiry was tantamount to a blackmail attempt. The thrust of the response was something like, "do you want me to delve into past Liberal shady practices also? The Liberals should carefully consider their request."
I must admit that I would be interested in how much cash was dispensed by Sheilla Copps,(Heritage Minister) when she was flying around with blank cheques in her carpet bag dispensing to all and sundry.
Durgan.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
November 8th, 2007, 11:08 PM
A federal inquiry is also needed to find out where the rest of the $20 million Airbus bribery account went in the late 1980s when Air Canada ended up purchasing over 100 airliners from the company.
Quoting Unforgiven
But Mulroney spokesperson Luc Lavoie says the $300,000 paid by Schreiber has become a red herring and had nothing to do with the Airbus affair.
Instead, it was meant as payment for Mulroney's help with business ventures.
"This retainer was paid after Mr. Mulroney left office and was in no way connected with the Airbus transaction," Lavoie said yesterday in an email.
And he said when the RCMP finally closed their investigation into the Airbus affair in 2003 and cleared Mulroney of any wrongdoing, "they had known for a full two years about the $300,000 retainer," Lavoie said.
Mulroney first sent a letter to Schreiber asking him to deny that any payments were made then a second asking him to state the $300,000 was a retainer. Mulroney received over $2 million from Canadian taxpayers based on his testimony that he had no business dealings with Schreiber. Clearly that's a lie and he should be forced to return the money with interest and also charged with perjury if that's appropriate.But Mulroney spokesperson Luc Lavoie says the $300,000 paid by Schreiber has become a red herring and had nothing to do with the Airbus affair.
Instead, it was meant as payment for Mulroney's help with business ventures.
"This retainer was paid after Mr. Mulroney left office and was in no way connected with the Airbus transaction," Lavoie said yesterday in an email.
And he said when the RCMP finally closed their investigation into the Airbus affair in 2003 and cleared Mulroney of any wrongdoing, "they had known for a full two years about the $300,000 retainer," Lavoie said.
A federal inquiry is also needed to find out where the rest of the $20 million Airbus bribery account went in the late 1980s when Air Canada ended up purchasing over 100 airliners from the company.
War Minister
Posts: 3,061
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 4
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
November 9th, 2007, 03:02 AM
If anything I think it shows both how dirty Mulroney was and is, and just how much like the Liberals Harper's Conservatives are. Everyone is scamming the public these days. Who the hell do you look to for some honesty and accountability?
If anything I think it shows both how dirty Mulroney was and is, and just how much like the Liberals Harper's Conservatives are. Everyone is scamming the public these days. Who the hell do you look to for some honesty and accountability?
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
November 9th, 2007, 03:29 AM
Politics has always been dirty and Karlheinz Schreiber has been convicted of bribing a number of European politicians of the 1980s-90s, including the former Chancellor of Germany so this isn't just a Canadian issue.
You're right about Harper, the only thing he learned from the Liberals when he was in opposition was how to take advantages of the flaws in our system to gain more power. At the rate we're going we'll have our own Robert Mugabe in charge of the country before too long.
Politics has always been dirty and Karlheinz Schreiber has been convicted of bribing a number of European politicians of the 1980s-90s, including the former Chancellor of Germany so this isn't just a Canadian issue.
You're right about Harper, the only thing he learned from the Liberals when he was in opposition was how to take advantages of the flaws in our system to gain more power. At the rate we're going we'll have our own Robert Mugabe in charge of the country before too long.
